It's your forum..

This is my third year as a moderator in your forum.. During all this time we have tried hard to give a good atmosphere to have your discussions freely. We have tried to give you enough space to express your point of view. Although there are somethings which are not written in the rule books.. but we have tried to enforce this code of conduct in the forum. Lately in one or two threads, this code of conduct was grossly breached. For instance we have tried our forums should not be used to throw dirt on people, therefore we have tried to enforce the discussion on personal lives of the people outside the domain of our discussion in these forums. People in general have appreciated this code of conduct.. and the feed back I have from various posters is that they like the general decency prevailing in our forums and feel more comfortable posting while this code of conduct is implemented..

When our level of discussion comes as low as the post below..

These are your forums.. please help us maintain the quality in these forums. Please help us to maintain the decency which is the hallmark of our forums..

We can not write each and everything in the rule books. Our regular posters know the philosophy behind these forums. They know very well that diversity is appreciated here. Everyone is encouraged to speak up their minds freely. But please once again I request you to help us maintain the quality of discussions in these forums.. We are not trying to protect personalities here. You are free to criticize political personalities in these forums.. but let’s not take this criticism below a certain level/standard required to maintain the decency..

I’ll also appreciate the regular forum users to share their thoughts on this topic in this thread..

Re: It's your forum..

I was lucky that first online forum I joined was Gupshup. Before joining the GS, I didn't like participating in political discussions and even my first 200-300 posts on GS were restricted to Shor Sharaba (mostly in thread PTV Dramas since November 27, 1964).

My first posts to PA forums relates to period when Zulfiqar Mirza's first statement came and there were hot debates on Sindhi-Muhanjir conflict, Outsiders of Karachi and Sindhi Waderas, etc. I found discussions in these threads quite decent without name calling and supervision by moderators for unpleasant / distasteful posts encouraged me for further participation.

I've visited many other forums but I found out no standard there. The atmosphere there is literally Machli market and even moderators there either don't participate in threads or they instigate for conflicts. Quality standard and good atmosphere encouraging discussion in open way is the plus point of GS and all the credit goes to GS team.

Re: It's your forum..

Brother, I cannot understand your thinking behind calling something ‘indecent’ when what is mentioned in my post is not indecency but information, something every Pakistani should know before supporting or voting any candidate.

If Imran Khan was someone living his own private life then regardless of what I wrote was true, it would have been inappropriate (rather gheebat) to talk about him and his indecent deeds.

If those deeds (being womaniser and gambler) were just propaganda or accusation, something that cannot be proven using Imran’s own confession or know facts that Imran never denied, than again it would have been inappropriate to talk about as that could be lies (bohtan) regardless of court judgments (if any).

Anyhow:

What I wrote is truth, something coming from Imran’s own confession (his being involved in gambling) or from known facts about Imran (that he had relationship with Sita White and many other girls ... pictures and presence of his daughter from Sita White is proof enough).

Further, Imran Khan is not just a ‘Person’ who is living his own private life, but Imran wants to become people’s representative of whole Pakistan (not representative of just one constituency but entire Pakistan) where he can rule the country, enact laws, and enforce those laws on ‘all’ people living in the country’ ... according to his own values.

So, whatever values Imran (or any public representative intending to rule country) has is important for all Pakistanis to know, talk about and discuss regardless of how low and indecent that values maybe.

Actually ... I am surprised when some people believe in hiding, not mentioning, or not even discussing a politician’s characters and values on pretext of them being indecent or inappropriate. It is more surprising that some people would support a candidate to become their ‘leader’ and ruler of Pakistan ... but get ashamed of mentioning characters and values of that candidate.

For me, if anyone becomes or would like to become my representative (Imran would become my representative if he wins election to lead Pakistan, regardless of I give him vote or not), than I feel duty to keep talking about his characters and values (that can be proven without doubt from that representative’s own confession and other undeniable proofs) ... with believe that people who would know are decent enough to abhor those indecencies and thus would not let that person become my representative.

Re: It's your forum..

Such a person is far far better than corrupt/looters/murderers

Re: It's your forum..

You are right. But then, from amongst Pakistani politicians, considering someone corrupt, looter and murderer are based on perception.

There is no confession by any politician that he/she did corruption or murder. There are no pictures or other evidences (that a layman can know) that someone did corruption or murder. Only circumstantial evidences that need investigation (for instance, people living beyond means and having assets beyond means ... or investigative evidence that politician propagate as victimisation), so those evidences are as good as trust on the investigating bodies or own intelligence if one is capable of that.

Supporters of political personalities do not consider their leaders as corrupts, looters or murderers even if there are court judgments, considering everything against their leaders as victimisation. Reason is that no one trusts Pakistani law enforcement agencies, investigating agencies, government intelligence networks, or even courts when it comes to demeaning those they support.

Thus facts remain that no one in Pakistani politics has undeniable evidences (based on their own confessions, etc) that they are of loose characters or have unwanted values (except ... ).

As for developing perception that the person is corrupt/looter/murderer ...that can only happen when chances come in government ... so no one can say beforehand about those regarding ‘corruption, etc’ who were never in government.

We can also talk safely about only those things that are undeniable due to self-confessions and/or evidences that do not need outside help to conclude.

Re: It's your forum..


and the 'perception' is created by media, establishment, ISI, army while the party/politician are innocent.

Re: It's your forum..

No one is innocent here .

Re: It's your forum..

I am not saying that party/politicians are innocent. What I am saying is that, regardless of they are innocent or not, people only have perception about them built by media, journalist (TV anchors or column writers), establishment, intelligence agencies, investigation agencies (NAB or whatever), army, police, courts and other politicians.

Since people have no trust on any of the above, that media, journalist (TV anchors or column writers), establishment, intelligence agencies, investigation agencies (NAB or whatever), army, police, courts and other politicians, they do not believe on any wrong doings by their political leaders whom they trust ... and as these political leaders always claim that they are victimised and that every wrong information about them is propaganda full of lies, that is what people supporting them believe.

Seldom political leaders make confession or do anything that cannot be denied, thus they get away with mega-corruption or murder as far as their supporters and voters are concerned. To my knowledge, only few Pakistani political personalities confessed of their wrong doings or did something that cannot be denied and that includes ...

Re: It's your forum..

No one in Pakistan will agree that they are murderers or looters, as they know that they cant be prosecuted in courts. Cant we see that with the passage of time the people of Pakistan are getting poorer whereas the rulers are getting richer? These corrupt rulers have brought the country to a end. As far as the character of IK is concerned, people go through different phases through out life. Most of the leaders our country has dont have an exemplary character, the thing is that their affairs remain hidden whereas IK's affair came to limelight. We can keep electing the same people over and over again, but then I dont see the country surviving for long. THe economy is already on its knees and the country surviving on the bakshish from the Americans.

Re: It’s your forum..

Here I am attaching Parliament say bazaar e husn tak…

You can download it from http://www.esnips.com/doc/c7f21895-13db-4fb6-bc04-6ee7472b9d20/parliment_se_bazar_husn_tak

password is jawadjee when you try to open it in acrobat reader.

Read about Bhutto and BB there…

Here’s the first page about BB…

Here you will see about the plastic surgery that BB had had done to keep herself looking attractive (Since AP is so concerned about Imran’s plastic surgery if has had one done)

How could Quaid e Awam Saani remain behind?


Restored attachments:

Re: It's your forum..

Great ,
Imran was not called play boy in University time . He got this title after 40 years of his age .
*Budhon kay ..... kay baray main hukam alag hay *.
I have seen the paper you quoted, That is 4th grade paper of a property dealer of Rawalpindi.
What the great item you brought to do this all but you are right
because
It's your forum..
*Kabhi kabhi sach bhi pasand kar lia karain.
*

Re: It’s your forum..

I have not read this book, but does it mention bubbly?

Re: It's your forum..

She was pinki, and was renowned in Oxford university for her sexual antics. The author is quoting a person who later became britains minister.

Re: It's your forum..

Sin is a sin it doesn't matter if it is committed at 25 or 40. Besides the affairs that the book mentions about zardari were after his marriage.

Re: It's your forum..

Bubbly wasnt her nick name....I will let AP explain the BB and bubbly link ( since he has very strong opinion on Imran's Romances)but if you want you can google this term or search through my PA posts.

PS: I dont have anything against any one (any Pakistani) dating a non pakistani or non muslim....whether it is its Imran, BB or Bilawal.

Re: It's your forum..

The thing is that none of our leaders are saints, that's why If someone throws garbage on one of them the same things apply to their own leaders as well. Sexual romances Bhutto, benazir's and zardari all have done on their times. Why just pinpoint only one person, when all are the same character wise. You don't like a person that's great discuss the flaws in the things he is putting forward, his policies.This constant mudslinging will lead us no where.

Re: It's your forum..

*There is some difference in romance and business .
*

Re: It's your forum..

Even though there is big difference between politicians whose character and values are known (due to confessions or/and other means) and politicians whose character and values are based on perception built by many untrustworthy institutions (from media to politicians in opposition), let put everything aside and look at what they are saying ... that is, their ideas and views they utter outwardly to become acceptable to people ... in other words their manifesto or whatever ‘channa’ they sell to people.

Now tell me what is wrong in PPP manifesto or what PPP politicians say to public ... Or for that matter, point out what is wrong with manifesto or sayings in public by politicians of PML(Q), PML(N), MQM, ANP, JUI(F), PML(C), JUP, JI, IJI, etc, etc, etc?

Fact is that, all sell same or similar ‘Channa’ to people (except Taliban who want to use danda to make people illiterate and follow what Taliban want). So when ideas or sayings of Pakistani politicians are concerned, one can just let it run down the drain, as all are angels in this respect.

Difference is in trusting their words and that trust means looking at their characters and values. So, in the end we are left with few important things from what we can judge a politician in Pakistan. That is, to know their known past to know their values and character. So mentioning these things are very important.

Unfortunately, if known past that can determine values and character of one of the politician is such that even mentioning them seems indecent, than what can one do other than cry on the fate of Pakistan and get amazed on people who may consider values and character of that person indecent still like to choose that person as leader and would love to vote and support that person.

[My personal feeling is that Imran could be much better than Zardari or Nawaz, but even then, due to his known past determining his values and character, I feel that he is not appropriate to lead the country. That is different matter that perception of Zardari and Nawaz is such that they are inappropriate to lead the country too. Actually, the way country performed economically during their rule, 1988-1999 and then again from 2008 onward, if they are given more chance than they can easily bring Pakistan to economical collapse.

Well, Nawaz is worse as Nawaz is known liar. We all know that he continuously lied to fool Pakistani masses regarding his agreements when leaving Pakistan for Saudi Arabia. Later he broke that agreement too, showing how untrustworthy he is. He abuses power too and do not care about constitution, as that can be known by knowing that he tried to sack army chief in very inappropriate way without going through constitutional procedure of notice through defence secretary with reasons for sacking and opportunity for army chief to defend. It is constitutional right of every government employee to get notice before dismissal and when Nawaz as Prime Minister did not do that, he violated the constitution. Nawaz did not even realize that Pakistan is not his Jageer but he was just a representative who cannot sack anyone without notice with reasons and that he should follow constitution of the land as others should].

Re: It's your forum..

Guys this thread is not about who is doing what, but rather what should be avoided. yazdi is one of the best mod we have & our entire team works hard to keep the forums clean & welcoming to all. All we ask in return is that you all do your part by avoiding name callings & derailing threads. Thanks.

Re: It's your forum..

Look guys.. I don't want to be policeman here.. I am normal poster like you in these forums first and a moderator later..

The reason to open this thread is not to defend IK or anyone else. He may be the worse person in the world in his personal life. This is not the topic under discussion here. The reason to open this thread is to stir a debate and create an awareness that should we discuss these things in these forums. If the quality of posts come down to these level what will be the difference between us and thousands of other forums on the net.

If you want to use abusive language or vent your frustrations in this way.. there are thousands of opportunities available on net. Our forums are known for quality discussions... we would like to maintain a liberal posture... and we are not a fan club for any personality that we should protect people from criticism... but really should we bring the level of our discussion to such a low standard...???

Please I request you to help us maintain the quality of our discussions. Diversity of views is not something we want to discourage here.. but lets give space to each other and respect a certain code of conduct to maintain the atmosphere in these forums..