Its Complicated...

T1000 I agree with you that you can not be certain a 100% that you wanna spend the rest of your life with someone even if you do get married. Basically if I were to do it I would become friends with a person and see how she is and if she possesses the qualities that I would like to see in my significant other. If yes then what are the chances of it working out between us and then go on from there.

It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to date in order to know a person. Obviously people behave differently when they are just frnds and when you are dating them and they behave differently when you are married than when you are dating. So you have to think about these things.

Just like I said that I would only date if I was sure it is going somewhere other people say that too and thats the point of it that you get some idea about how a person is in a relationship and how they would act in a marriage. That is how atleast i take it. There are some people who date for the sake of it and I do not condone that in any way.

I don't believe that there is a single person who "behaves" as himself or herself during dating .. .. dating process is just to impress the other person and for that reason they do every possible thing which is not the part of their personality and when things get settled they show their realself .. :p .. that's what i have always seen .. :)

so i never think that dating is something that you would see as a future - its just hanging out with opposite sex .. that's it!

Well then i agree to disagree with u ... i do believe that everyone tries to put their best foot forward ... but thats still them

I respect your point of view. but everyone speaks on the basis of their experiences or sometimes experience from their friends and its a fact that i have seen.

True, and Life1 is full of examples of bad marriages because the good ones dont compain. LOL.

I guess my point is simply that the amount of tolerance in an arranged marriage is higher...according to my observation. For some reason, our generation has chosen to date but discarded the amount of tolerance that goes into building a marriage. Which is why in my mind dating is rendered useless...its not an effective way of choosing a mate because the people involved are expecting life to be just peachy afterwards (not specifically you). And when things screw up a little bit, they want to bail because its not what they had talked about before marriage.

Getting to know someone is different. Talking to them over the phone and meeting a couple of times is fine. But a full fledged relationship just seems like a lot of effort prematurely. Why not do it all when it counts and means something rather then doing it when it means nothing?

Re: Its Complicated...

I'm against dating too, what's the point of going out with someone you know you don't have a future with. It just complicates things. Depends on what your background is though.

Yes Rena, I completely agree with you that the amount of tolerance (as it should be) is much more higher in marriages (arranged or love) as compared to a relationship. I do agree that dating before hand might give rise to some issues as people expect those lovey dovey times to go on even after the marriage but isn't that the same thing as the first few days of the marriage. I remember reading a post here a couple of weeks ago where someone was complaining how their husband's behavior has changed from the initial days. I think it comes to an individual person because the princess and i'm a man syndrome runs pretty deep these days and everyone wants things their way.

I agree that getting to know someone and talking to them is different. I also agree that relationship is alot of effort and sometimes it is a bit pre mature and can mean nothing towards the end. But then again alot of people don't just jump into a relationship where they don't see a future and for those who do i think thats a crappy thing to do and I'm completely against that myself :)

Even if someone is not much religious, fact does not change i.e religious things make sense and those things are not there for nothing!

To me TOO MUCH interaction even after engagement does not make sense. I have heard many horrible stories (and have observed couple first hand). Talking to someone, understanding them and making sure if they are compatible is fine but likely hood of things going wrong increases drastically when couple take it to next level....!

if u want to complicate matters then go for dating.....

I know ke aap kya kehrahe ho. Lekin I dnot want to bring religion into this topic only because I want to look at it from another angle. Yes, religion is correct lekin vaja bhi samaj mein aani chahiye hai na?

Re: Its Complicated...

I have really mixed views on dating. IMO, dating can be made as "halal" as possible by talking to the other person over the phone or texting. Not meeting in person as much, or if you meet, have friends and family present. I would label that as a committed relationship before an engagement and that's the most liberal I can personally ever be. Part of me thinks that when a couple dates, they get to know one another more and are more accepting of the other's flaws. It's good to gain experience to understand relationships better, maintain them, and accept different personalities. I've seen really sheltered people who go into an arranged marriage. They find one "flaw" (not even a flaw IMO) with the guy, and the girl rushes to a divorce very early in the marriage. I've seen this happen in my friends and aquaintances. But I could be wrong too, I don't want to sterotype. I also have Muslim Pakistani friends who date in the American sense- meeting often and alone, having physical contact of some sort whether it's holding hands, hugging, or making out- then they whine about their break-ups... I listen to their stories, but I honestly feel like rolling my eyes or slapping them.

Is the divorce rate higher in arranged marriages or love marriages? I think it might be about the same...?

Re: Its Complicated...

Overall, divorce rate is lower in arranged marriages.

Arranged marriages are not truely arranged either. There is a spectrum from very little knowledge of the to be spouse to a long interaction between them even if they were 'arranged' to begin with.

Same way, dating marriages are also becoming a hybrid of purely rebeliious love marriages to a significant interaction of families even if it was started strictly as a 'love affair'.

However, those which start with pure dating have less of the compromising elements than those which begin as an arranged relationship.

I think it all depends on people's intentions. The whole point of "going on dates" is to find out what the other person's deal is. People with the "desperate" mentality are the ones who I see settling alot with a person who is lacking major things... such as the desire to get married soon. For this reason, I dont see the point of girls dating super young guys.... like whats the point??? You know they are not going to be ready to get married anytime soon. Also, what is the point of dating someone who you know comes from a strict family that are against "love marriages"??? You know you will be up against a struggle. Pointless. Without getting emotionally evolved at all, one has to find out these sort of things. And in my personal experience and opinion... it doesn't take long to get these sort of vibes... one date.... two dates max? And by date I mean coffee at starbucks or dinner somewhere? Not really a big deal. We do this at times with friends.... to network... with coworkers.. etc.

And the whole pregnancy and STD thing???? I personally dont know any pakistani couples facing these issues. If their IS that intent to get married.... then there IS a huge element of respect as well. Respect that certain things should be saved for after marriage. Respect for the girl and her family. etc.

I personally didn't have a good experience with the whole "arranged marriage" rishta process... I thought guys and their mom's were being so judgmental about superficial things such as my looks and not even bothering to get to know me and my personality. I was turned off by this. I want a guy to be with me because of ME... not because I am "pretty", my "high punjabi caste", my dad's profession and overall family status, etc. It just seemed lame to me. My own parents were really turned off by this as well. It wasn't just me. They gave me the go ahead to find someone on my own.

So I never dated behind my parents back. Ever. They knew where I was going, at what times, etc. And the only guy that went beyond 2 dates with is the guy I am now engaged with :D We clicked right away and both of us knew that we were both looking for a "long term marriage commitment". And our parents knew about our relationship and never put pressure on us to "hurry up and get married". So yes Reha - we were able to ask for advice from our parents. My mom was my confidant! :)

So technically I have never had any breakups ... only boyfriend I have had is my fiance now. Parents were involved from the get go. Our intentions were discussed from the beginning. This seriously helped us avoid a LOT of issues and problems other couples have due to their "secret relationships".

I didn't see our relationship as work at all.... time just flew naturally! And before I knew it, I was done with my education and he was asking my parents for my hand for marriage :D It was very natural progression with ABSOLUTELY NO DRAMA and I do have that satisfaction that yes - he DOES want to be with me..because of me. Not because of my khandaan or our caste or whatever. We were able to meet each others parents... each others siblings... etc. while we were dating openly as well. This made things even more legit.

As for divorce... I think it is natural that it getting more prevalent...as girls get more educated and more independent .. they can think of this option as opposed to older generations where women were completely dependent on their husbands for everything ...especially financial security. That is why in alot of third world countries, where there ARE STILL MAJORITY arranged marriages.... there are still not that many divorces. Because lets all be real - a divorced girl living in pakistan ... that is a pretty miserable life. But a divorced girl here in the US... still miserable but you can survive and chance to live an independent life ...especially if you are educated. Do u know how many times I have heard that the only reason women didn't/don't get divorced is because they dont know what will happen with them??? They don't want to burden their parents by moving back home. They dont want to burden their brothers by moving in with them. It is an easier option for them to stay in an unhappy marriage.

I dont think it has much to do with luv v. arranged marriage. I think it has more to do with the girl's own mentality and circumstances.... her family situation ... the country she lives in ... her own educational status... etc.

Divorce sucks and no one wants to go through that if they dont have to. Even in the US ... it may be easy to be a divorced woman but it is hell to go through that process to BECOME a divorced woman.

Re: Its Complicated...

I am not an advocate of dating. I too believe it complicates things. To me dating is like trying out different diets until you find the one that works for you. For most people, dieting never works until they stick to one!

Re: Its Complicated...

dating complicate things...........

Agree with PunjabiRose, I could never see myself going thru the more traditional arranged marriage setup (esp the tea trolley meetings and being wheeled out like some showdog), I know a lot of families nowadays are going the 'middle way' tho and arranging to meet on neutral territory like a restaurant or even just passing on the girl or boys phone no. to their kids to let them take it from there themselves.. The other thing that was really important to me was that the guy himself wanted me, I've come across so many who've said 'I didn't fancy her the most but I married her cos it made my mum happy' or they'll admit they like another girl more and are just 'settling' for this particular one.. I've always believed in 'the one' and the idea of just going thru the motions like a lot of ppl of our parents' generation do in their marriages is my worst nightmare.. their divorce rates might be lower but that's not to say they're happier than those who've had love marriages..

In our society it's so difficult to be female and divorced, apart from the gossiping and social stigma most women don't work after marriage and so obviously have no choice but to stay in situations they wouldn't otherwise be in, if it was easy to remarry and there weren't so many financial constraints I'd like to see how many of those so-called 'happy' women in arranged marriages would stick it out till the very end..

For many people definition of dating is not clear. In short, dating is time pass you cannot equate it to marriage. When you are on a date you do not talk about relationship or serious issues rather relax and enjoy your time out.

Re: Its Complicated...

It is better to be open minded, for some people “dating” works and for others it simply doesn’t work. There are a lot of external factors involved in dating like if your parents are cool with it not, if you don’t want a arranged marriage you are dating behind your parents back because you want to find your own spouse….etc etc… just because you date someone doesn’t mean you have to have sex…the boy should always respect a girl!!
Sadly, STDs and unplanned pregnancies are so common and prevalent in the desi community these days. The best thing is to ask the other person. I know its such a weird and akward question but those few moments of weirdness and awkwardness will save you from a unwanted friend for life. I have heard of couples who both went to a general practioner and got tested together… ofcourse to do that you and the other person have to be on the same page… If you live in a city with a huge desi population you will see ALL kinds of things that happen…abortions, STDS, AIDS, etc etc… AHHH SCARY!!
Divorce, its sad but these days everywhere I look now everyone is getting divorced left and right. It is reality and a huge fact in our society these days. I do not think by any means that Pakistani women who are divorced are “miserable,” that’s just silly! I know and have heard of girls who got divorced and married boys BETTER MUCH BETTER than their ex-husbands. Pakistani people are becoming more open minded and are realizing that the Pakistani way to a marriage is not the way in the US. I would say communication with your spouse, having in laws that do accept you and want you there, honesty, the basics in a relationship still apply to any modern day relationship. Just like you need a foundation to lay down a house that has never changed for centuries. Like that you need a good foundation in your relationship to make it last to build a home those basics will never change either in any relationship 9a marriage, friends, siblings, etc etc) J If you live in a major city with a big desi population you will see how much the “culture” has changed.