IT situation in Pakistan

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

This is the thread to discuss the following:

1- Current IT infrastructure in Pakistan and what future (make that near-future) holds for it. Problems, promising outlook, corporate spending on IT solutions, so on and so forth.
2- Career and investment IT opportunities and environment in Pakistan.
3- Government and private sector organizations mobile to working towards improvement. Steps taken etc.

The biggest problem I see right now under the category #1 is the slow internet speed. The average dialup access amounts to 33k. They were talking about cable broadband access, which is in fact available in some areas but I’m not sure how’s the speed. Speedy network access is the backbone of any business collaboration, without which extranets, E-commerce, and B2B integration is not possible or offer little value. Even for corporate intranets, local networks (residing within a building) is the best option available for any decision support system and reporting infrastructure. I know one particular company that has its branches all over Pakistan. One of its headquarters is in Lahore. To exchange data between two cities, they are still using the primitive method of spreadsheet attachements or ftp uploading (small files) in batches at the end of the day. Not only such setup poses security issues, it’s also very untimely and not much of use. I’m sure there are many corporations (specially multi-national) that make use of better infrastructure but then again, there is a limit to what they can use performance wise given the online speed.

Another thing I noticed after talking to couple of people in Lahore was that not many people have good idea of what really “IT” is. It seems like in most cases, basic level skill-sets like HTML, JavaScripting, MS office usage, Visual Basic development, MS Access based small information systems are pretty much it. A central and integral information system based on decision support framework and dynamic data exchange using advanced platform indepedent technologies like web servers/web services, ERP solutions based on n-tier architecture, and central repository framework are either non-existent or very limited in number. I know that PwC is doing couple of projects for governement (E-governement) and SAP implementations but I’m not sure about other such projects by other firms. Part of the reason of this could be that mostly the companies have not realized the great potential of efficiency, better management, and cost saving associated with IT applications. This, in turn, could be because of couple of reasons:

1- There is no desire to improve customer services. I went to Feroze Sons in Lahore couple times to buy some books. Their procedure was that you pick the books, go to a counter where they collect the books, give you a receipt with the hand-written list of books, you take it a seperate counter, pay the amount there and the cashier makes an entry in the journal/register with hand (manually assigning a transaction number and amount) and stamps “paid” on the receipt. You then take the receipt to a THIRD counter where you present the paid receipt and receive your books. This whole procedure should be a one stop deal. Imagine if the manager of the bookstore, at the end of the month, wants to know the inventory of the Russian Authors books or wanting to know what kinda books are selling better than the others. They would have to go through that manual journal and do everything by hand.

2- Business competition. Companies still are operating under the “kaam chal raha hai” business rule that’s been in place for past few centuries. There is no desire to improve things to take competitive advantanges of some of the things that can drastically improve by implementing IT solutions/infrastructure. Part of the problem is that the upper management at many companies is still those old hogs who started off a business few decades ago after saving much from a dukaan and have their old ways of doing business. Although things are changing and a lot of young professionals are moving up after getting business degrees from schools and have better perception of improving business using technology, they are still few in numbers.

Add yours.

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I'm frustrated!

90% of the official Pakistani sites links are broken. That includes various ministry web sites, the governement of Pakistan official web site, and some commision/commitee related sites.

The ones that work have very limited introductory sort of information, that has a "page under construction" sort of feel to it.

Ironically, I followed a link to an article about post-Nawaz Sharif era economic growth in Pakistan from Embassy of Pakistan site -- The link was rendered in the context of a promising economic growth. When I read the article, it actually debated the economic growth indicators due to factors not accredited to the present government (influx of immigration from US to back to Pakistan post 9/11 era and the capital brought in by those immigrants, inclusion in state bank statistic figures of financial information that was not accounted for in Nawaz Sharif regime etc) and criticized present government's economic growth efforts.

PS-
Could this thread be moved to General? Or Science and Technology forum? Thanks.

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Another thing I noticed after talking to couple of people in Lahore was that not many people have good idea of what really "IT" is. It seems like in most cases, basic level skill-sets like HTML, JavaScripting, MS office usage, Visual Basic development, MS Access based small information systems are pretty much it. A central and integral information system based on decision support framework and dynamic data exchange using advanced platform indepedent technologies like web servers/web services, ERP solutions based on n-tier architecture, and central repository framework are either non-existent or very limited in number. I know that PwC is doing couple of projects for governement (E-governement) and SAP implementations but I'm not sure about other such projects by other firms. Part of the reason of this could be that mostly the companies have not realized the great potential of efficiency, better management, and cost saving associated with IT applications. This, in turn, could be because of couple of reasons:<<

I know that PSO has been trying to implement SAP framework, recently. Their turnaround can be accredited to such bold decision making, and it happens to one of the most successful corporation in Pakistan.

I am not too much into networks, but IT solutions cannot yield maximum potential unless the applications are integrated; that's where Webservices come into play. Whilst, the internet is moving into next generation, the slow networks, and improper training is hampering the pace of IT reforms. Some drastic and bold measures needs to be taken..

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[QUOTE]
I know that PwC is doing couple of projects for governement (E-governement) and SAP implementations but I'm not sure about other such projects by other firms. Part of the reason of this could be that mostly the companies have not realized the great potential of efficiency, better management, and cost saving associated with IT applications.

[/QUOTE]
I was part of the PwC team in Pakistan which started SAP implementations, and to my knowledge another major company which was planning to be a big player in SAP was Seimens. They got agency from SAP AG. Another one was Jaffer Bros and OraTech (Oracle). Based on my discussions and proposal meetings with CEO's of several relatively large-sized companies in Pakistan, there are multiple reasons why most Pakistani companies were reluctant to go for major ERP implementation:

  1. Costs and ROI:. Most CTOs/CFO's find it hard to justify initial IT investment to their CEO's, especially for SAP and Oracle implementation (there are pretty large $$$ involved). This is especially true where most companies are not of such size to justify these projects. Some multi-nationals got ERP implementations pushed down from their parent companies. These include Pepsi and Coke.
  2. Implementation expertise: Very few companies in Pakistan have expertise or trained resources in implementation of sophisticated ERP systems.
  3. Lack of professional management: Most Pakistani companies are managed in a seth mentality, where the owners wants to retain complete control over all aspects of business and share as little information as possible. This is changing now that sons of many big businessmen got their education from abroad, come back to Pakistan and start helping their father to run the business and decide "hey! this thing is not gonna work. I need a new information system". These people will be the pioneers for change in how information and business is conducted in Pakistan. There are some huge industrial groups where the change had already begun in a large way (Saigols, Kasooris, Dewan and Fareeshta groups, being prime examples)
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Faisal, your points make sense.

I agree that the part of the problem with big names like SAP and Oracle is that not only they are not cost justifiable for many companies, there are very few trained resources to implement the solution. But a problem always poses a solution. This is exactly the same how ERP packaged solutions started emerging here in US. Before these packaged solutions, there were in-house, inbred applications residing on lagacy systems doing the work. I think that's exactly what's needed in Pakistan right now. Not the legacy systems, or the related applications, but the development of in-house decision support systems that make use of present technologies like Java, J2EE, XML, n-tier architecture (as their core integration framework and infrastructure) etc. They can continue to have end-user using Access or Visual Basic application for smaller data entry front end (purchase orders, sales orders etc) and have a layer on top of these smaller applications to manage and collaborate the central repository.

This will definitely be a viable solution at this point for most of the medium-to-larger sized companies, which will allow to cut cost in terms of buying hugely priced packages like SAP, but at the same time have a system that can easily be integrated with any other application/system in future, around the world.

Now, building in-house applications is not khala jee ka baaRa but still, there are a lot more experienced developers and architects in Pakistan in these technologies than SAP etc.

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One more point in terms of cost cutting. The best thing about the open source based technology (web servers like Tomcat, App servers like JBoss, Development IDEs like Eclipse) is that it's free. That reduces the costs drastically for a startup project.

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With software IT companies mushrooming in Pakistan (alongwith IT graduates), and not much work being outsourced from US to Pakistan, I would imagine that most of those software development companies are doing ingenious development of specifically-designed IS software for small-to-medium sized businesses in Pakistan. What kind of software tools they are using and whether they are open-source tools, if I were to venture a guess, I'd say probably yes, cz it makes life easier all around.

Years ago, some software house in Pakistan developed and marketed an accounting software called "Gold Coin". I don't know what happened to it, but it was an off-the-shelf software for medium-sized businesses in Pakistan. I am sure, by now, such products, and products which are highly tailored for their specific clientle are dime a dozen in Pakistan.

On a related note, I was discussing the issue of IT out-sourcing to Pakistan by major US companies with a friend of mine. This guy is an EVP with Oracle Corp. He told me that he had volunteered to set up a Professional Services Group in Pakistan for Oracle and live there for one year himself, if Oracle decides to set up shop in Pakistan. After weeks of deliberations, the legal department of Oracle came back with the response that at this time Oracle can't invest and set up premises in Pakistan, because technically Pakistan is still on some kind of State Deptt's list of terrorist countries and putting up offices there will result in unusally higher insurance costs for the employees. The idea was dropped by Oracle. Point being, there is a lot of investment which can be made in Pakistan by multi-national companies, if some of the political issues are resolved. Surely, there is no shortage of qualified or train*able* IT engineers in Pakistan. Its just a matter of more investment into developing business models to utilize these resources for having larger IT spread across Pakistan's economy.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
One more point in terms of cost cutting. The best thing about the open source based technology (web servers like Tomcat, App servers like JBoss, Development IDEs like Eclipse) is that it's free. That reduces the costs drastically for a startup project.
[/QUOTE]

There are wealth of open-source software available. Only thing needed is the right mindset and brains developing in these technologies. The efficiency does not necessarily depends on buying costly solutions.

I think Pakitani government has chosen Linux based systems over Microsoft ones. Same thing ought to happen in the areas of Application development: promotion of widely-used and accessible open source technologies. There should be wide-spread implementation of grass-root reforms.

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Faisal, yes, there must be a lot off-the-shelf such applications developed or being developed in Pakistan right now. I talked to a guy during my visit who owns a small company (he and his wife have established it and they have few other contract based employees) that develops ERP solution for companies developed in Visual Basic (which I believe must be a pirated copy 'cause I can't imagine him paying some $500 bucks to microsoft to buy the IDE). Over the years of developing component to component for specific ERP needs, he's a package now that comprises of all those modules/components. So I'm sure this is the case with many other people. But as outlaw pointed out initially, an IT solution is nothing much of a value without an integrated decision support framework. That's exactly where the need to broaden corporate horizons comes in for Pakistan.

It is a well known reality, even in US that every corporate system comprises of disparate components/systems serving the specific needs of its respective business process/branch/department. These system can comprise of lagacy systems, primitive applications, intranet information systems, or any of the other type of system that's can be part of hurndereds of different kind of categories. It's the integration of these disparate systems (both hardware and software) that eventually allow coroporations to operate more efficiently and in a timely manner for competitive advantage. Without this type of integration, upper management would be almost clueless of what's happening where under its diverse regions of operations.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
(which I believe must be a pirated copy 'cause I can't imagine him paying some $500 bucks to microsoft to buy the IDE).

[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, what do you techie folks say: Is this a wise idea?

I mean, I am not talking about piracy, per se... but the reliability of pirated software. I know decent-sized companies in Pakistan who have installed the whole Oracle database using pirated software. A friend of mine, who used to work for Jaffer Bros Support Desk, was telling me that most of the "SOS" calls he was getting turned out to be from companies who had installed Oracle database from a pirated version and a brought over all the data and a few weeks/months down the road, the friggin' thing will just stop working. He claimed that pirated versions miss some critical time sensitive files by Oracle. Those Companies will then want the authorized dealer (Jaffer Bros) to fix the problem and Jaffer Bros will coolly present a pro-forma invoice of licensed software and tell the company cough up this money for legal software and we will fix your database.

Personally, I don't mind using Installer CDs bought from Pakistan, but I don't ever use a pirated Operating System. I deem it too risky cz OS is managing my whole computer. Application software is another thing. If OS is crappy (missing files whatever) it can seriously screw up my computing. I wonder how major businesses in Pakistan gather the guts to go with pirated software for mission-critical applications in their businesses.

And this is, no doubt, a big issue for major software companies like Microsoft and Oracle. They want software piracy to end before they can commit to major investment in Pakistan.

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Well, to be honest, I am out of sync from the ground realities in Pakistan. But, the real IT revolution could only happen when the information can be transmitted and shared seamlessly. The government needs to pump huge amounts of money into the IT industry. It sounds like an odious joke when the government of Pakistan talks about allocating few hundred million dollars into the IT sector, and expect to be at the forefront of receiving out-sourced contracts. Furthermore, it needs to go on a vigorous drive to attract talent back home for implementation of distributive computing and integrated information driven economy.

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Faisal, I remember someone who's a finance manager in big national company telling me that they had received inter-company memo to avoid using pirated software. There has been some initiative in that direction.

As far as the existing software is concerened, I'm not too sure about it. You definitely don't want to use windows XP pirated copy in Pakistan (I don't even know how they even have it as XP was desinged to address the piracy issues among other enhancements). But my guess is that some of the software pirated back 5 or so years ago shouldn't have that much of issues. But this is a good point. Companies using pirated Oracle TODAY are at great risk.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by outlaw: *
The government needs to pump huge amounts of money into the IT industry.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think the government of Pakistan has huge amounts of money to invest into anything. We'll just have to think out side of the box. To expect minimal investment from the government itself, and more from private sector.

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Using pirated software on business level is a big NO. But, if the companies want to avoid huge costs, again the solutions may lie in deploying free open-source software. You may not find something as versatile as Oracle, but if you are at a level where using Oracle becomes a necessasity, then I am sure you may very well be in a position to cough-up few grands..

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by outlaw: *
It sounds like an odious joke when the government of Pakistan talks about allocating few hundred million dollars into the IT sector, and expect to be at the forefront of receiving out-sourced contracts. Furthermore, it needs to go on a vigorous drive to attract talent back home for implementation of distributive computing and integrated information driven economy.
[/QUOTE]

Outy, not only that, the competition would be directly with Indian outsourcing companies, and Indian companies offer good quality software engineering solutions. Pakistan doesn't even come close. Specially considering the fact that a lot of H-1B Indian techies have gone back home now and there is already a solid IT base in terms of huge investments from giants like Microsoft, Oracle, Dell, and hundreds of others.

I'm not too keen on the outsourcing to Pakistan front at this point. I think Pakistan needs to prove its worthiness domestically first. The only outsourcing happening for Pakistan right now are the Pakistani investors who has been living in US for long time and have started their own companies and are using their contacts to get the contracts for outsourcing. That's my guess.

16

About the Oracle issue, for many companies, using SQL server 7.0 (not 2000) can still be a very good solution. I remember I bought this book on SQL years ago and it included a CD with it that has SQL server 7.0 on it, which I believe was license free or was not time sensitive. Even in US I worked on an ERP project where the company was using SQL server 7.0 as their backend. I'm sure to the last nickle that it's a lot more cheaper solution than thinking about Oracle.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by outlaw: *
Using pirated software on business level is a big NO. But, if the companies want to avoid huge costs, again the solutions may lie in deploying free open-source software.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
I think Pakistan needs to prove its worthiness domestically first. The only outsourcing happening for Pakistan right now are the Pakistani investors who has been living in US for long time and have started their own companies and are using their contacts to get the contracts for outsourcing. That's my guess.
[/QUOTE]
Let me focus again on Pakistan's own software development engineers. What I am going to say below may not apply right now, as I have been out of the scene for more than 2-3 years, however this is my perception when I was more involved in that thing back in Pakistan. Let me be honest about it, even though it may sound inappropriate about our own, but while I was working closely with Pakistani IT engineers on ERP and Java-based projects, I did not find them terribly competent. They were careless and maverick'sh in their approach. The QA procedures in the companies were non-existent. The engineers lacked discipline in proper documentation and the sort of bugs they will leave in their products were mind-boggling.

I am not talking about nickle-and-dime companies which mushroomed all over the place. I am talking about major software-houses (one of them was also listed on NASDAQ for some time).

I hope the quality of our development teams has increased manifold in the last couple of years, because other wise, hand to heart, I can't say we are as good as anyone else. I suspect part of the blame should lay with wholly unregulated IT education infrastruture in Pakistan, where there is probably more emphasis on making a few bucks rather then imparting quality IT education. If thats true, our foundations are all wrong, and we can not hope to develop a viable, sustainable IT growth model on top of it.

18

I suspect part of the blame should lay with wholly unregulated IT education infrastruture in Pakistan, where there is probably more emphasis on making a few bucks rather then imparting quality IT education. If thats true, our foundations are all wrong, and we can not hope to develop a viable, sustainable IT growth model on top of it.

That is very much true. My perception of the kind of education we get there (after talking to couple of people) is that it's more along the lines of a basic "tutorial" of a programming language or software which only provides you a kickstart and overview of the concept, not the real thing. Without proper internship programs, rigorous on-hand labs addressing real business world problems and their design, development, testing solution using full-life cycle software development methodoligies, all we've got are graduates outta schools who are "familiar" with the technology.

19

Faisal, your point regarding the investments is a valid one, if multinational companies are keen to invest huge sums of dollars. Considering the fact that the telecom sector will not be deregulated until 2005, it's unlikely that any new major investment from the private sector would come into the country any time soon, apart from the privatization of Pak Telecom.

Few million dollars here and there are peanuts. Especially, when you look at what really forms the backbone of speedy information broadcast, like satellites and fiber-optic networks. Connecting one thousand cities with the Internet is no big deal, but what matters most is the reliability of the networks and speed at which the data is exchanged. Aggressive expansion won't happen unless the government is ready to pump more money.

Pakistani market is just not lucrative enough at the moment, I think. That's where the government has to play a crucial role, and not lag behind in investing money in upgrading the infrastructure and forming policies to facilitate investor friendly environment.

20

i think the first thign we forget is law and order which leads to honesty which leads to poor ppl seeing visible change in thier lives wats the point of improving businesses if there is no one to buy the stuff... over simplification i guess