Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
[mod]No further religious discussions in this thread. Any further reference to religious beliefs or hate talk against any religious community will be immediately deleted from the thread with stern warning for the poster.. Please stick to the social/political aspect of the topic under discussion..!![/mod]
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
recently there was a report on CNN where a muslim from south india was beaten cause he moved to new delhi but was wrongly accused of stealing a chain and lynched in public by indian police.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Dude if you want to discuss religious beliefs and how people get offended due to these beliefs, please feel free to post your concerns in religious forum if the moderators allow you there to make comparative analysis.
Here in this forum we do not allow discussions of religious beliefs. Moreover we do not allow any religious profiling/labeling for an entire community to be declared criminally motivated.
Entire Muslim community is not responsible for criminal acts of certain extremist individuals, just like christian community can not be held responsible for hate mentality of Hitler. So your posting of certain isolated criminal acts of certain individuals to create hate for an entire community is totally unacceptable.
There is a say in our village
X asked Y how much is for rice?
Y replied X there is one kilo wheat.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
There is a say in our village X asked Y how much is for rice? Y replied X there is one kilo wheat.
I would be interested in knowing the name of your village where people suffer from low intelligence level, besides religious intolerance..!!!
Is it an Indian village in Kerala?
I think the English comprehension skills taught in your village school are also far below the standard..!!!
Try some other language if you want to tell a joke.. my friend you are failing miserably to make any sense with your above post..!!!
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Crime and religious profiling are two different issues. If the poster was saying that he would not rent his property to someone with a criminal back ground.. that would be a separate issue. Presuming and labeling 20 percent of the world population as criminals just on the basis of their religious orientation is a sub-human behavior for present modern day humans.
If general people in India have the mentality as you are saying... considering each other criminals en bloc.. I can only say God save India. So much for co existence and harmony. No wonder likes of Varun Gandhi are allowed to do politics in India.
Last but not least I did not claim to know about anyone's religion. Nor is it my concern. I was just trying to defend Christians when a hate monger poses himself to be a Christian shows his true colors by declaring 20 percent of peace loving world population as some kind of threat to the rest of humanity.
As far as my moderator duties are concerned, I was pretty lenient on this dude as forum rules require me to take action against guys who insult a community of people on the basis of religion. In this forum we do not allow people to insult Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Atheist or whoever on the basis of their religious orientation.
As far as You yourself are concerned, have you any proof of muslim localities being criminal with social problems in India. It is this kind of rotten mentality in India against muslims that they think of themselves as victims of hate. I am glad Jinnah anticipated this and struggled for Pakistan..!!!
Let's get something straight here, it may 'hurt' your feelings that a vast majority of people associate crime with muslims, but that's a fact.
These are opinions, prejudices, perceptions, whatever. But they exist, and that is what they are.
In India, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that muslim neighborhoods are synonymous with ghettos. Don't get me wrong, Hindus are also involved in crime. But the crime they're involved in tends to be organized crime, the kind that doesn't come in your way on the streets or on the ride back from work. As for the synonymousness, Part of that is due to state failure and apathy, part of that is due to discrimination, at least in some states. But part of that is also because muslims do n't attach the same emphasis to education and material wealth and success that Hindus do.
The Muslims that do tend to be from the Bori, Barelvi, Bah'aai and Ahmedi community, the kind that have traditionally been traders. And Hindus, and everyone else are glad to live by them.
How is his declaration of his being 'Christian' an insult to a religious community? Do explain. Your logic defies me.
Your demand for 'proof' on the matter of an existential association is obscene. How do I furnish you with proof on a perception that exists? I've lived in that country.
I am glad that Jinnah supported and struggled for Pakistan, too. The Indian muslim today, is on the whole, far more moderate, liberal and secular in his views. A product of a liberal upbringing, no doubt. And I am glad we do not have people to hold us back.
I don't mean to bait you, but you 'praying' for India is like a farce. We've moved from strength to strength in the last few years, while you've only moved backwards.
In the end, it is our Constitution that has held our country together. India's Muslims have realized that they too can't be left out of the lurch, that they too have a commitment to improve themselves, that they too can be part of this growth story called-- India.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
^^ Which strength you are talking about? Havent you heard of anything that there are almost double rebel groups in india now as it was in 2008? Which strength you are talking about man? Poverty is increasing in India.. more human rights problems are occuring and you are talking about strength..? Do you mean strength by apply Zandu Balm?
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
^^ Which strength you are talking about? Havent you heard of anything that there are almost double rebel groups in india now as it was in 2008? Which strength you are talking about man? Poverty is increasing in India.. more human rights problems are occuring and you are talking about strength..? Do you mean strength by apply Zandu Balm?
Surely you jest.
Have you heard that the Black Widows, India's second most notorious terror group, are now dead? Have you heard that most rebel groups in the North east are now defunct?
Have you heard of the almost-decade of peace and prosperity that Kashmir has witnessed- prior to this unrest? Have you seen the visible changes in Kashmir, since 2002? Especially in areas, like Baramulla and Anantnag where there is relatively less unrest?
Have you heard of the near 10% economic growth India has achieved in the last seven years, and the close to 8% growth in the two decades before that? Have you heard of the more-than-doubling of per-capita incomes in the last seven years? And of the fact that GDP is set to triple from 2001 levels next year?
Did you read on the U.N. report that said nearly half of all those lifted out of slums worldwide since 2002 were from India- and the other half, were from China? Did you compare the two figures: sitting at 59.7 million and 60.1 million?
Have you witnessed the spate of acquisitions that Indian companies have made in the last few years, not just big names like Jaguar and Land Rover but even smaller ones like Ssonyang and SAE? Interestingly, Ssonyang is also the company that makes the motors for your Toyota Cruisers, which your military use extensively.
Have you read about the infrastructure boom that is currently going on in India- the High Courts of several cities have declared that buildings built before the 1940's can be razed to the ground carte blanche and redeveloped- with cities becoming construction zones that have had no precedent yet.
Have you seen the metro systems that are currently being built in Mumbai and Bangalore? Or any of the more than 200 new airports that have been built in a lot of smaller cities? Have you seen the new hill stations that are being built?- cities, right from scratch.
Have you witnessed the proliferation in education and literacy rates- your own DAWN news yesterday had a story about how rising literacy rates in India were contributing to a newspaper boom.
Have you witnessed the commissions and the media furor that now occurs when there are human rights violations in India? It would be unthinkable to bury four girls alive in the sand, for attempting to choose their own husbands.
Pictures to back all these up. I don't wanna oversell myself, but you're selling our country way too short.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
this video is by an Indian news channel, this video is out of concern and also to bring this discrimination out in the public to the notice of the state authorities( politicians, bureaucrats and the police) and the people.
and now for some fun, the size and taste of the apple is the proof of growth of the apple tree, so if Indian Hindus are so discriminating then, how many indian Muslims have crossed over to Pakistan since partition (except the Dawood and Sania mirza!)!, i know (from the NEWS) lot of Pakistan based terrorist who have come and stayed over here in India!.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Let's get something straight here,** it may 'hurt' your feelings that a vast majority of people associate crime with muslims, but that's a fact.**
These are opinions, prejudices, perceptions, whatever. But they exist, and that is what they are.
These perceptions exist in your mind.. not not because they have anything to do with reality but with some problem in your thinking process and brain which you have filled with hate.
Please don't get concerned about my feelings getting hurt, because I don't even bother to take seriously people who are driven by hate for some specific community of people. I don't have any problem with you if you come from whatever nationality, religion, ethnic back ground... and I have never accused your nationality, religious community as criminally motivated. You are the one doing it. I just feel sorry for you because end of the day people like you don't make a difference.. but they just suffer themselves in their disease which is called HATE...!!!
Where is this vast majority of people on this planet who associate muslims with crime... I am afraid this majority only lives in your brain which is highly infected with hate disease..!!!
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In India, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that muslim neighborhoods are synonymous with ghettos. Don't get me wrong, Hindus are also involved in crime. But the crime they're involved in tends to be organized crime, the kind that doesn't come in your way on the streets or on the ride back from work. As for the synonymousness, Part of that is due to state failure and apathy, part of that is due to discrimination, at least in some states. But part of that is also because muslims do n't attach the same emphasis to education and material wealth and success that Hindus do.
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Show me the evidence before you start making these sweeping statements that muslim neighborhoods are criminal ghettos. I can not take you on your words because your posts already show that you are a highly prejudiced person with fixed perceptions. In spite of all your glorifications the fact remains that India is one of the poorest nations in the world. A vast majority of Hindus also living in India have problem getting sufficient nutrition, while in your dream world all the Hindus in India are extremely wealthy people. I can post you pictures of a large number of your fellow country men who go to railway lines to releive themselves from the call of nature..!!!
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The Muslims that do tend to be from the Bori, Barelvi, Bah'aai and Ahmedi community, the kind that have traditionally been traders. And Hindus, and everyone else are glad to live by them.
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A vast majority of Muslims including all the above mentioned sects are peace loving people just like a vast majority of Hindus, christians, parsis.. and are not involved in any sort of crime what so ever. However there is a minority of people who are criminals from every religious community.
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How is his declaration of his being 'Christian' an insult to a religious community? Do explain. Your logic defies me.
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Of course you have an understanding problem with your head filled with hate. Declaration of someone to be christian is not an insult to religious community when you are showing something positive. If you show that your head is filled with hate, and it is so because you are a christian and try to tell people that vast majority of christians are like you who think muslims as community are criminals, I think it is an insult to christian community... who by large are loving, caring, and peace loving people without hate for any one on the basis of their religious orientation.
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Your demand for 'proof' on the matter of an existential association is obscene. How do I furnish you with proof on a perception that exists? I've lived in that country.
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You are living in your dream la la land. have a life man... try having some compassion for your fellow human beings without having prejudice on their religious orientation..!!!
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I am glad that Jinnah supported and struggled for Pakistan, too. The Indian muslim today, is on the whole, far more moderate, liberal and secular in his views. A product of a liberal upbringing, no doubt. And I am glad we do not have people to hold us back.
I don't mean to bait you, but you 'praying' for India is like a farce. We've moved from strength to strength in the last few years, while you've only moved backwards.
In the end, it is our Constitution that has held our country together. India's Muslims have realized that they too can't be left out of the lurch, that they too have a commitment to improve themselves, that they too can be part of this growth story called-- India.
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I don't know about future, India may become a success story in 50/100 years. At the moment there is a lot to be done on basic human living conditions with vast majority of Indians living in sub-human conditions. Your country is extremely poor, over populated with poor sanitation and hygienic conditions, plagued with all kind of diseases and with vast number of people living on streets... and this is reality as on Sept 2010...
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Let's get something straight here, it may 'hurt' your feelings that a vast majority of people associate crime with muslims, but that's a fact.
These are opinions, prejudices, perceptions, whatever. But they exist, and that is what they are.
In India, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that muslim neighborhoods are synonymous with ghettos. Don't get me wrong, Hindus are also involved in crime. But the crime they're involved in tends to be organized crime, the kind that doesn't come in your way on the streets or on the ride back from work. As for the synonymousness, Part of that is due to state failure and apathy, part of that is due to discrimination, at least in some states. But part of that is also because muslims do n't attach the same emphasis to education and material wealth and success that Hindus do.
The Muslims that do tend to be from the Bori, Barelvi, Bah'aai and Ahmedi community, the kind that have traditionally been traders. And Hindus, and everyone else are glad to live by them.
How is his declaration of his being 'Christian' an insult to a religious community? Do explain. Your logic defies me.
Your demand for 'proof' on the matter of an existential association is obscene. How do I furnish you with proof on a perception that exists? I've lived in that country.
I am glad that Jinnah supported and struggled for Pakistan, too. The Indian muslim today, is on the whole, far more moderate, liberal and secular in his views. A product of a liberal upbringing, no doubt. And I am glad we do not have people to hold us back.
I don't mean to bait you, but you 'praying' for India is like a farce. We've moved from strength to strength in the last few years, while you've only moved backwards.
In the end, it is our Constitution that has held our country together. India's Muslims have realized that they too can't be left out of the lurch, that they too have a commitment to improve themselves, that they too can be part of this growth story called-- India.
Your comments regarding Muslims are utterly and obviously senseless, absolutely illogical, untrue and contrary to all reasons and common sense.
Super folly of your ignorance just amazes me; perhaps this abhorrence is a result of those preconceived bias opinions, your mental and emotional outlook which have been sowed into your character by the ambience of your upbringing…
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Your comments regarding Muslims are utterly and obviously senseless, absolutely illogical, untrue and contrary to all reasons and common sense.
Super folly of your ignorance just amazes me; perhaps this abhorrence is a result of those preconceived bias opinions, your mental and emotional outlook which have been sowed into your character by the ambience of your upbringing…
I am filled with the 'super folly of my ignorance' about "Indian muslims" which 'amazes' you? Are you a freackin' twit? Do you live in India, or do I?
Don't worry about my 'mental and emotional outlook'. Looks like you need to get off the prozac.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
I am filled with the 'super folly of my ignorance' about "Indian muslims" which 'amazes' you? Are you a freackin' twit? Do you live in India, or do I?
Don't worry about my 'mental and emotional outlook'. Looks like you need to get off the prozac.
Who the hell do you think you are to just barge in here with your absolute turds against Muslims and not expect to get feces in return?
For the record Majority of Indian Muslims are oppressed, they suffer with cruel and unjust impositions and restraints.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
[mod]Calm down guys, avoid personal attacks..!!![/mod]
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Who the hell do you think you are to just barge in here with your absolute turds against Muslims and not expect to get feces in return?
For the record Majority of Indian Muslims are oppressed, they suffer with cruel and unjust impositions and restraints.
Who the hell are you to wag your gob about 'Indian muslims', when you neither know about them, 've never lived in India or spent any considerable time analysing their 'problems'.
For the record, you know jack squat about the 'majority of Indian muslims', so save the turd for your smooshtikin' self.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
yazdi,
you seem intent on arguing. A separation of my posts into paragraphs for direct-direct rebuttals is usually an indication of that. So I won’t berate the point..
The fact is: that these opinions exist. They exist in the minds of not just Hindus, but of Sikhs and Christians, and people everywhere else in the world as well. If you needed any proof, just look around you.
I do not share these opinions. They are not my personal opinions. And I am against the stereotyping of an individual member of a community based on what a part, or even the majority, of his community are. I believe in evaluating each person off his own accord. But that doesn’t change the fact that there is an element of truth to them.
I live in India and as a person who has an intimate, first-hand knowledge of the daily struggles, and trials and tribulations of the people of my country, I know this to be fact: that there is simply not enough of an emphasis on education in the muslim family in India. There was even less emphasis before, but over time, as competition has gotten more intense and jobs (relatively) more scarce, the emphasis has begun to increase. This is the fact.
You think the association of black neighborhoods with crime is merely an imaginary artifact? There is statistical evidence to support it. Just as there is evidence to support the muslim-crime ratio.
Note: the deletion of this part from the Sachar Committee report, because of the political situations it would inflame. Yet, it is a story we are deeply regretful about and are trying our best to remedy .
As for the rest, you tend to sell us short way too much again. In 50-100 years, India will truly be a success story, but it is already a success story before that. We are a growing economy with a stellar rate, have lifted and will continue to lift millions out of poverty, are educating ourselves and building up our infrastructure < the Commonwealth games ridiculousness notwithstanding> and have never yet had a military takeover, with respect for the Constitution and the law being prime, continuing to be entrenched in a citizenry, that a few years ago were nothing more than a bunch of illiterate babels.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
^^ I think somehow you are NOT going to realize anything about your country. You will see the "success of india" going down the drain when you will see the poor in india getting against their own country in the form of those rebel groups as it always happened. Putting Muslims in jail and slapping them with an FIR that is just too lame is what Indian police can do. If there are such case in real that would also be because there is a limit to the oppression done my Indian government and thats what is this topic about. You can write a story about India's well doing while keeping your eyes shut to the poor citizen of the country. I don't want to debate it further and bang my head with you for the things that were said here and for your way of talking, so that I may not get indulge myself in mudslinging with you. You know the bitter reality about your country so all of others do.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
^^ I think somehow you are NOT going to realize anything about your country. You will see the "success of india" going down the drain when you will see the poor in india getting against their own country in the form of those rebel groups as it always happened. Putting Muslims in jail and slapping them with an FIR that is just too lame is what Indian police can do. If there are such case in real that would also be because there is a limit to the oppression done my Indian government and thats what is this topic about. You can write a story about India's well doing while keeping your eyes shut to the poor citizen of the country. I don't want to debate it further and bang my head with you for the things that were said here and for your way of talking, so that I may not get indulge myself in mudslinging with you. You know the bitter reality about your country so all of others do.
Uh, dude!! All of the info. you get about India, its poverty and its illiteracy, its rebel demands, its soaring prices, its urban slums and its homelessness is from Indian sources.
Why do you think that is, huh? Dimaak phirao, thodasaa.
We are very interested in developing ourselves. Which is why we have tonnes of advocacy groups, neighborhood ALM's (or Associated Locality Managements), a press constantly nagging the government, and teachers and citizenry constantly goading each other on to further competition. It is why village peasants will starve, and sacrifice a meal out of the two they have each day- so that their children can go to school.
That is the sign of a country that wants to progress. A country that is struggling with its shackles. and that is starting to break them.
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
^^ a lot to say mate but yet better not to be said!
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Who would want to go such a filthy, disease ridden, polluted crap hole, where people relieve themselves on the streets anyway?...
Re: It really happens, Muslims are not welcome in Delhi
Who would want to go such a filthy, disease ridden, polluted crap hole, where people relieve themselves on the streets anyway?...
hm...good question. may be people from places where bombs explode in mosques, wedding / funeral processions or markets?
just kidding...I know nobody from Pakistan want to come to India. But I do see whenever I go to India that every tourist hotel is full, every resort is full and every tourist spot is teeming with foreigners - Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Americans...
They don't come just to the palace tours or Taj or the grand temples ...recently there is also a tour of poverty! an enterprising resident of Dharavi started a guided tour of the largest slum in Asia (or is in the world!) and foreigners pay for a walking tour!
Oh, on the disease-ridden part - here is a little quiz for your self improvement. Go google medical tourism.
PS: Yet another US based company announced yet another "Find India" type of 3 month tour of India - Hign School seniors are the tourists who pay 4K + airfare to join. The program has a waiting list within a week of announcement. Past programs have had on an average 90% non-Indian origin kids participating.