ok so i just spoke with him and i actually said that either he wants me or the jahez. i dont care if my parents decide to give me something of their own accord but he isnt and his family is not allowed to ask for something. if they do, i can and will leave him. i love him but aint nobody got time for this bull****. I was actually not aware that jahez was actually considered a necessary thing by some people. in movies the guy asking for jahez is never the good guy. anyway, lets see if he takes the threat seriously.
applause Jahez demands are like a quicksand. You dip in once with a yes you're trapped. If you were engaged I would have advised to end it because this is not a good guy trait at all but since the nikkah has happened just wait and watch what happens after ultimatum..
It seems to me that his mom is kaan bharaing him to get the car in Pakistan, otherwise what use will it be to him. Thats why he keeps asking you about "his izzat". May be his mom has given car to her daughter grudgingly and now expects to get reciprocated. But the whole thing is ugly, he should have been more mature.
Now that it has become an argument, stick to your guns.
Now I hope you are not planning to ask him for 6 figure haq mehr for your "izzat".
Why would your parents give you furniture for the new house if they are already giving you furniture for a house in Pakistan? See, this is like your parents are building up expectations of your in-laws and when in-laws happens to be the materialistic greedy ones then they take advantage of the girl's family and begin to demand more and more.
i agree that parents can provide all the luxuries of life to their daughters if they can afford, even if the daughters are earning their own money, but it should be between daughters and parents and husband or in-laws have no right to demand anything from girl's family.
Her parents are giving her bedroom furniture in Pakistan which seems reasonable- considering she will be using it when she goes there. As for here...I can understand her parents giving just the bedroom set, but the whole house furniture when her parents in law will be living with her? That's ridiculous. It is THEIR home, they should pay for it. The only reason my parents furnished our whole place here is because it's OURS- not my parents in laws. If I had been moving in with them I'm sure it would have only been the bedroom set.
But honestly speaking...I do agree...it's not good to build up huge expectations from the beginning. I have seen it happen in my own family where my uncles and aunties have spent lavishly on their daughters by way of jahez and in some instances it never was enough. The in laws would just view it as "not enough" when in fact it was WAY too much. But then again OP is in a difficult situation as well because her in laws and husband are already starting with the "thana baazi" and their izzat blah blah which screams red flags to me. It seems like everything will always have to be about their izzat and everything else comes second (hopefully I am wrong).
Personally, my hubby and I have travelled to Pakistan once (excluding for the actual marriage) after our wedding and his dad told us don't bring anything. He knows how expensive things are out here, how hard we work and how high our expenses are. We just ended up buying things for immediate family and that's it.
OP, I am glad you have stuck up for yourself and given your husband an ultimatum. You need to set a precedent from the beginning and good on you for doing so. InshAllah things will work out fine.
ok so i just spoke with him and i actually said that either he wants me or the jahez. i dont care if my parents decide to give me something of their own accord but he isnt and his family is not allowed to ask for something. if they do, i can and will leave him. i love him but aint nobody got time for this bull****. I was actually not aware that jahez was actually considered a necessary thing by some people. in movies the guy asking for jahez is never the good guy. anyway, lets see if he takes the threat seriously.
Well clearly your husband and his family has plenty of time for BS like this. :)
I think you made a very wise decision. It wasn't the easiest decision but it's the best one. This has nothing to do with you loving him or him loving you. It's about him showing you AND your parents respect. If he's willing to disrespect you and your parents in order to save his parents izzat back in Pakistan, then you really need to think about whether this is the man you want to spend the rest of your life with. I wouldn't even look at this as a "threat". It's his choice. He can choose to move forward with the ruksati so you two can start building your life together OR he can choose to continue focusing on material things like cars. The choice he makes right now should give you great insight into his personality/values.
BTW, assuming the ruksati happens, I would recommend that you tell your parents not to give you a car right now just to prevent any further arguments. Let the ruksati happen. You wrote you are studying as a pre-med so I'm assuming you're still doing your undergraduate studies. When you graduate and/or get accepted into medical school, your parents can buy you a car at that time as a graduation/medical school acceptance present. But for now, I would ask your parents to hold off on buying a car.
They will be like "no, we have enough to live without it". But then they will make comments to me about my parents like "Apni beti ko kuch deh bhi nhi saktay" etc.
Tell your parents to just ignore comments like that. I know its hard but it's not worth responding to stuff like this. Clearly his parents and your parents are not best friends. Tell your parents to minimize contact with his parents and when they make dumb comments like that, your parents should pretend not to hear it and change the topic or make an excuse and walk away.
You need to understand that his parents will not change. Even if the ruksati happens, in the future his parents will make other passive aggressive comments towards your parents. This jahez issue is just the beginning. So if you want to spend your life with this guy and not have arguments all the time, then your parents are going to have to learn to deal with crap like this.
threats like that don't teach anyone a lesson.....they merely put the argument off or transfer it to something else.....
izzat built on material things isn't izzat at all.
good luck.
It seems to me that his mom is kaan bharaing him to get the car in Pakistan, otherwise what use will it be to him. Thats why he keeps asking you about "his izzat". May be his mom has given car to her daughter grudgingly and now expects to get reciprocated. But the whole thing is ugly, he should have been more mature.
Now that it has become an argument, stick to your guns.
Now I hope you are not planning to ask him for 6 figure haq mehr for your "izzat".
He seems to have calmed down about the whole car issue. His mom is nice to me and all but because sometimes I feel like I'm not enough. I can make most Pakistani food but haven't yet mastered the art of a perfectly round roti so she makes comments about that. She spends about 6 months here and 6 months in pakistan. I've learneed to ignore most of what she says. In the meanwhile I'm learning the small gharailu things I dont yet know. I do know how to cook, clean, sew, shop for grocery, raise children (I have many neices and Nephews-I'm very helpful). He told me that to him I am the most important thing but he feels like I'm just painting him as the bad guy and not trying to understand his perspective. The haq meher was 5000 rs. For me, whenever I think I want this house or that car or that thing in life, I never think oh this or that person will get it for me. I always think I will work hard and get it for myself. I wouldnt ask for a big haq meher because I know I can support myself without it. As for the furniture, my parents are only giving bedroom furniture in pakistan for when I go there, I'll be staying about a month. . For here they plan on giving me bedroom furniture and living room sofas, dining table. When I ask why they want to give both places they say that they dont want "bezatti" from society for failing to give their daughter stuff. As for the person who made a comment about how he probably won't let me leave the house, I told him before even our engagement that the most important thing to me is my education. I will not compromise on that at all, for anyone, ever. Im just surprised that I am facing this issue at all. Despite years of studying feminist courses, I find myself out of depth when facing such misogynistic behavior. I asked him what if my parents dont give me anything, would you not want to marry me anymore, he says no I would never leave you. He says he wouldnt even mention it (jahez issue) after the ruksati, he just wants me to fight my parents for this stuff, like a car and saman in pak, now before the ruksati.
He says he wouldnt even mention it (jahez issue) after the ruksati, he just wants me to fight my parents for this stuff, like a car and saman in pak, now before the ruksati.
Oh honey, don't you see what's happening here? No way, he'll let this go after the rukhsati if he's like this now. And how can you let him tell you to "fight" your parents? Your parents don't owe you (or your husband) anything. Anything they give you is their "ehsaan" on you and you should, under no circumstances, be fighting them for a car, more furniture, better jewellery, etc. I love my husband but I don't think I would ever put his parents' izzat before that of my own parents.
I would really caution you to think long and hard before you decide to go ahead and consummate your nikkah. It's still not too late to do an istikhaara and ask Allah for help in making this decision. Good luck.
OP - how old is your husband? He has some major growing up to do. If his family owns multiple cars in Pakistan, why is he so hung up on a freaking car? People with character would be like we don't need anything, we are well to do ourselves. This show-shawpana / izzat from materialistic things reflects their character. Your husband needs to grow up. And you should hold your ground. If they are so well to do in Pakistan, they should be able to house you in a proper room, without your parents giving your furniture for a room, that you'll use for one month. So much for izzat.
He says he wouldnt even mention it (jahez issue) after the ruksati, he just wants me to fight my parents for this stuff, like a car and saman in pak, now before the ruksati.
LOL. Right....he wants you to fight with your parents, hurt their feelings and distance yourself from your parents right now. So after the ruksati when he and his parents make your life miserable, you will feel like you're all alone b/c you fought with your parents so much right before ruksati.
OP - how old is your husband? He has some major growing up to do. If his family owns multiple cars in Pakistan, why is he so hung up on a freaking car? People with character would be like we don't need anything, we are well to do ourselves. This show-shawpana / izzat from materialistic things reflects their character. Your husband needs to grow up. And you should hold your ground. If they are so well to do in Pakistan, they should be able to house you in a proper room, without your parents giving your furniture for a room, that you'll use for one month. So much for izzat.
He is 26 to my 20. I dont know why he is making such a big deal about the car. I'm not going to bring it up to him again, if he brings it up himself thats another story. They should *but that doesnt mean they *would. My parents seem to agree with them over this so im not going to bring up the furniture. I am not one to care about something just because its tradition but this stupid tradition is getting in the way. My semester is about to start so I really won't have time to argue with anyone, or anyone to argue with me. I want summer to be over already so bad. I leave for Pakistan about a week after my fall semester ends. So I feel like if I just show sabr for a couple more weeks, they will understand themselves that Im not going to cave on this one. I know that they might bring this or a similar issue up after the ruksati but I do want to give them benefit of doubt. If this continues to be an issue after the Ruksati,or they bring up some other similar thing, Im not one to stay silent.
Can you just take the car in Pakistan, use it for some months and then sell it? His izzat will be retained and your money will come back sooner or later.
I know its a big deal when guys get cars for Jahez, maybe all his friends got cars and he would like some bragging rights too? Its not unheard of in Pakistan.
I got married in Pakistan and stayed there for about 10 days before coming here. Despite my mother in law's hints, we never gave anything in Pakistan. After all this time, my mother in law still gets mad that we didn't give any jehez but we held our guns. Oh to clarify, we never asked for a specific haq mehr too.
Can you just take the car in Pakistan, use it for some months and then sell it? His izzat will be retained and your money will come back sooner or later.
I know its a big deal when guys get cars for Jahez, maybe all his friends got cars and he would like some bragging rights too? Its not unheard of in Pakistan.
I suppose thats true but I dont think theyd be willing to resell the car after as hed effectively be giving it to his older brother. I dont understand how a car could possibly increase his bragging rights more than everything else. Most of his friends married within Pak, which altho not a bad thing at ALL but I imagine the bragging rights are much higher for him marrying an American Citizen, which exponentially increased his chances of success as he was then able to come to the US and make more money than he wouldve in Pakistan. Im going to become a doctor and I know this may sound cocky or presumptive of me but I'll be a pretty good one. I want to eventually open a hospital in Pakistan for middle-income and lower-income families to get the kind of treatment I see women get here during and after pregnancy. Compare the bragging rights of that versus the bragging rights of finding a wife whose parents gave you a car in Jahez.
@GypsyKing Jahez is An accumulation of stuff parents are basically forced by culture and society to give their daughter's inlaws at her wedding for fear that they will be shamed if they dont.
Oh I see. Never heard of this tradition before, so I'm guessing it's not something we or our relatives practise.
He seems to have calmed down about the whole car issue. His mom is nice to me and all but because sometimes I feel like I'm not enough. I can make most Pakistani food but haven't yet mastered the art of a perfectly round roti so she makes comments about that. She spends about 6 months here and 6 months in pakistan. I've learneed to ignore most of what she says. In the meanwhile I'm learning the small gharailu things I dont yet know. I do know how to cook, clean, sew, shop for grocery, raise children (I have many neices and Nephews-I'm very helpful). He told me that to him I am the most important thing but he feels like I'm just painting him as the bad guy and not trying to understand his perspective. The haq meher was 5000 rs. For me, whenever I think I want this house or that car or that thing in life, I never think oh this or that person will get it for me. I always think I will work hard and get it for myself. I wouldnt ask for a big haq meher because I know I can support myself without it. As for the furniture, my parents are only giving bedroom furniture in pakistan for when I go there, I'll be staying about a month. . For here they plan on giving me bedroom furniture and living room sofas, dining table. When I ask why they want to give both places they say that they dont want "bezatti" from society for failing to give their daughter stuff. As for the person who made a comment about how he probably won't let me leave the house, I told him before even our engagement that the most important thing to me is my education. I will not compromise on that at all, for anyone, ever. Im just surprised that I am facing this issue at all. Despite years of studying feminist courses, I find myself out of depth when facing such misogynistic behavior. I asked him what if my parents dont give me anything, would you not want to marry me anymore, he says no I would never leave you. He says he wouldnt even mention it (jahez issue) after the ruksati, he just wants me to fight my parents for this stuff, like a car and saman in pak, now before the ruksati.
I will say this that people in the past didn't used to give their daughters a dime in inheritance but instead would compensate with a truckload of Jahez so precious property would only got to sons. It is this mentality that persists which is frankly just a way to bypass Islam as much as possible. Your parents don't owe you anything and you don't have a right to anything they own. They could not even pay for your entire wedding and it still would not be unislamic. So you have nothing to fight for. No matter what pressing arguments you will be given about how much they need to do this because so and so from their relatives or community or even your siblings got something you didn't it's all BS in the head.
If this argument persists then tell them it will be a loan from your parents because its your izzat ka mamla too (no intentions of actually getting a car) and you will then pay them back from your joint account. If he's not willing to fund his own brother's car he needs to zip it.
And tell your parents to be firm too. They will ruin your life if they give in now. The guy can possibly change but if he sees them as a convenient ATM then you guys will suffer.
I'm feeling *really really *depressed right now. I haven't felt this depressed since before I met my husband. He made my life turn around and he made me so happy. I had thought that now that I have met my *one, *I will never have to feel this awful again. I have had an inferiority complex for a large portion of my life. I always felt like my life was not as good as the lives of others and that everyone else was so much luckier than me. After meeting him though I realized how lucky I am in my life. I have parents who provide for me, an education, and as many opportunities to succeed in life as I want. He made me feel beautiful and special and lucky.
Today we got into an argument again. He told me that since my parents did not give my sister jahez or stuff on the birth of her kids, I will not get anything from them either. He said to me that people made fun of him and say that his inlaws will not even give him a "tootie hui saikle" (broken bike. I told him why dont you fight with those people. He said that he feels ashamed because he agrees with those people. He says he feels lucky that he has me, a wife he loves, but he feels ashamed to have inlaws like my parents.
I was like you should have broken those peoples mouths in for daring to say something so bad about your inlaws. I tried to explain to him that my parents gave him the opportunity to come to America, which will have much more longterm financial benefit to him than if my parents gave me a whole lot of jahez. He said everytime he says something he gets the answer well they brought you to America. He says its not like they sold their daughter, that he should be grateful to come to the US. He says that "tumhara dimaak khraab hua hai". That I will understand after our Ruksati that he was right.
I feel very bad right now, like my parents werent good enough for my husband and therefore Im not good enough. Im feeling very very depressed, I just want to cry all day
I'm feeling *really really *depressed right now. I haven't felt this depressed since before I met my husband. He made my life turn around and he made me so happy. I had thought that now that I have met my *one, *I will never have to feel this awful again. I have had an inferiority complex for a large portion of my life. I always felt like my life was not as good as the lives of others and that everyone else was so much luckier than me. After meeting him though I realized how lucky I am in my life. I have parents who provide for me, an education, and as many opportunities to succeed in life as I want. He made me feel beautiful and special and lucky. Today we got into an argument again. He told me that since my parents did not give my sister jahez or stuff on the birth of her kids, I will not get anything from them either. He said to me that people made fun of him and say that his inlaws will not even give him a "tootie hui saikle" (broken bike. I told him why dont you fight with those people. He said that he feels ashamed because he agrees with those people. He says he feels lucky that he has me, a wife he loves, but he feels ashamed to have inlaws like my parents. I was like you should have broken those peoples mouths in for daring to say something so bad about your inlaws. I tried to explain to him that my parents gave him the opportunity to come to America, which will have much more longterm financial benefit to him than if my parents gave me a whole lot of jahez. He said everytime he says something he gets the answer well they brought you to America. He says its not like they sold their daughter, that he should be grateful to come to the US. He says that "tumhara dimaak khraab hua hai". That I will understand after our Ruksati that he was right. I feel very bad right now, like my parents werent good enough for my husband and therefore Im not good enough. Im feeling very very depressed, I just want to cry all day
1) You're 20 now and the nikah was done 3 years ago. So your parents got you married when you were about 18. I'm assuming you met this guy when you were about 16/17? The point I'm making is that you were still a teenager when you got married. Frankly I'm not even sure why you got married so young. You already know you have low self-esteem. This guy, who is 6 years older than you, knew that and took advantage of it. I know you're miserable right now but please believe me when I write this.....it's better that his true character come out right now.....BEFORE the ruksati and while you're 20......as opposed to after you've had kids with him and are 40!
2) You need to understand and accept that he and his parents will ALWAYS pick fights like this with you. He already flat-out told you that he has 0 respect for your parents. Imagine what he will do/say once the ruksati is done! Imagine living in the same house with this man and hearing all this stuff about your parents for the next 50 years. You want your future children hearing these type of things about your parents from their dad? Is that something you're prepared for?
3) BTW, it sounds like you sponsored him for green card after the nikah. Does he already have his permanent 10 year green card?
4) Its ok to feel sad and down but that's not going to solve anything. At 20 you're VERY young and have decades of life ahead of you. The ruksati hasn't happened. You really need to think through this and decide if this is the man you want as your life partner. Talk to a close friend and talk to your parents. This is not about anyone's izzat. This is about the rest of YOUR life. The ONLY person who has to live with this man and listen to him talk is YOU. So please think through this and really decide what is it that going to make YOU happy in the long run.