Issue # 1000x

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

ok another issue..
lets steam it up…

“Rahmato ke baarish” does this sentence rings up any bell in ur mind? NOO ?

ok letme get straight..
Maybe some of you are aware of a guy name “ROOFI” who is a renounced N’aat khuwan In Pakistan.. and according to people when he is reading Na’aat its the holiest scence u can imagine for..

OK lets just agree with that.. but i’ve seen the video captured scenes of his Na’aat Khuwani .. and the thing im referring is to people throwing NOTES ( paise ) on him.. like they do it on shaadi .. like what does it mean..

I asked my cousin about it.. and he told me that “ROOFI” was a singer before.. not a famous one in faisalabad.. and then he thought of this brilliant idea of EARNING money.. and he has a good fair bit of voice.. so he has started this business..

Such are we Muslims :)..

ok here is my stiff hardcore steaming point.. whats the idea behind Na’aat ?? sing out , praise Prophet Muhammad (SAW) like parrots ?
make cults . not follow Prophet Muhammad(SAW). not understanding the teachings onlee sing out words of prase..

I know im not a good muslim at all. But such attitude is even worse for people who say they are the flag holders of ISLAM. this is such a hypocracy by the so Called Mullah’s and molvies.. I see this all over in pakistan specially lahore, and get really pissed OFF..

This is the attitude of people who also talk abt implementing Khilafah, not all but yes some of them..

I’m not implying that Naa’th should be there. but I beleive what is better is Darood and salam, which Allah himself sends over Prophet Muhammmad(SAW) .. but whats the use of such words with no real essence of heart ?

2

do you seriously think Allah would "send darood" on a prophet of His??

Who is more worthy of praise?? Allah or a prophet Allah created and chose to deliver His message??

3

Al-Ahzab (33):43 He it is Who sends Salât (His blessings) on you, and His angels too (ask Allâh to bless and forgive you), that He may bring you out from darkness (of disbelief and polytheism) into light (of Belief and Islâmic Monotheism). And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers. (Al-Ahzab 33:43)

Al-Ahzab (33):56 Allâh sends His Salât (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too (ask Allâh to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salât on (ask Allâh to bless) him (Muhammad SAW), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islâmic way of greeting (salutation i.e. As_Salâmu 'Alaikum). (Al-Ahzab 33:56)

and PA u were saying????
although i do agree, naats are bidah, however listening to them instead of music is ok as long as u kno u wont get any reward for listening to them

4

He = who??

too many brackets…I don’t think we need those…

JazakAllah khair for sharing them with us! :flower1:

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
and PA u were saying????
[/quote]

ThandayMazaq bhai jaan, this is not a novel.. this is the Qur'an.. quote with extreme caution and use reliable translations, preferably minus the brackets.

First off.. context.

Now please revisit 33:41, 42 and 33:43 together and please do return and let us know what you found.

We'll await your response and then tackle 33:56.

6

HE = Prophet Muhammad (SAW).. because in the Quran Allah is directly talking to Prophet Muhammad(SAW).

Its the most obvious and clear thing..

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
do you seriously think Allah would "send darood" on a prophet of His??

Who is more worthy of praise?? Allah or a prophet Allah created and chose to deliver His message??
[/QUOTE]

dear PA...
nice to see you here again..

Well First of all, why would i think that what Allah wants and does? Allah is the Supreme creator.. beyond our thinking and imagination... and its mentioned in Quran that Allah and his angles send Salat on HIM ( the prophet )...

your post's second part is totally ignored.. cuz its not making any sense..

the only arguable issue (only for YOU ) is who is specified in the ayath's in the Quran .

the answer is simple .. Last Prophet Prophet Muhammad(SAW) ..

do you have anyone else who can fit in this context?

8

Mr Devil's Advocate, you really amaze me, by saying things which are totally opposite of what really is. You said that why would Allah send salam and blessings on Prophet Muhammad (saw). The Holy Quran clearly says that:

"InAllah wa malaikatuhu yusaloon alanabi. Ya Ayuhallazin a amanu....."

So If Allah is clearly says He does send Salam on Nabi, how can you say no? When something clearly comes in the Quran and there is no doubt in it, then you cannot deny it!

I understand that there could be a lack of understanding of the verse in your case, but that should not allow you to deny the Quran in 2 lines!

As far as reading naat is concerned, I have read that the Prophet (saw) himself said that do not praise me like the Christians praise Eesa. So we should do what the Quran tells us and not invent things.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

ThandayMazaq bhai jaan, this is not a novel.. this is the Qur'an.. quote with extreme caution and use reliable translations, preferably minus the brackets.

First off.. context.

Now please revisit 33:41, 42 and 33:43 together and please do return and let us know what you found.

We'll await your response and then tackle 33:56.
[/QUOTE]

you wanted the ayats preceeding the 43,

41 íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÇÐúßõÑõæÇ Çááøóåó ÐößúÑðÇ ßóËöíÑÇð

O you who believe! Remember Allâh with much remembrance. (Al-Ahzab 33:41)
[Ibn Katheer | Tabari | Qurtubi]
Arabic

42 æóÓóÈøöÍõæåõ ÈõßúÑóÉð æóÃóÕöíáðÇ

And glorify His Praises morning and afternoon [the early morning (Fajr) and 'Asr prayers]. (Al-Ahzab 33:42)
[Ibn Katheer | Tabari | Qurtubi]
Arabic

43 åõæó ÇáøóÐöí íõÕóáøöí Úóáóíúßõãú æóãóáóÇÆößóÊõåõ áöíõÎúÑöÌóßõã ãøöäó ÇáÙøõáõãóÇÊö Åöáóì ÇáäøõæÑö æóßóÇäó ÈöÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó ÑóÍöíãðÇ

He it is Who sends Salât on you, and His angels too , that He may bring you out from darkness into light . And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers. (Al-Ahzab 33:43)

the first two are calling on momins to praise Allah during the morning and afternoon, and which the ulama believe mentions the fajr and asr times...then allah says it is HE(allah) who sends salat, because if the he was meant to be the prophet, it would sound like he (mohammed SAW) it is who sents salat on you (who??) and angels too, that he (mohammed SAW) may bring you out from darkness into light, and He (Mohammed SAW) is ever most merciful to the believers naudubillah, it is complete shirk if we read the he to be the prophet SAW, so the he mentioned in this ayat can only mean Allah SWT.

and ayat 56 is tooo open to be debated
56 Åöäøó Çááøóåó æóãóáóÇÆößóÊóåõ íõÕóáøõæäó Úóáóì ÇáäøóÈöíøö íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÕóáøõæÇ Úóáóíúåö æóÓóáøöãõæÇ ÊóÓúáöíãðÇ

Allâh sends His Salât on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too . O you who believe! Send your Salât on him (Muhammad SAW), and greet him with the Islâmic way of greeting . (Al-Ahzab 33:56)

again i took out all the parenthesis, except the muhammed SAW after the prophet, because if you dont believe that the prophet mentioned here without being named is mohammed SAW, i wont even waste my time, any way, it is clear because it named Allah and his angels (innalaha wa malaekate) send their greetings (ussuloon) on the prophet (alan nabi). there is no he issue to deal with as the name of allah is here. and i stand corrected, PA u were saying??

10

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by
the first two are calling on momins to praise Allah during the morning and afternoon, and which the ulama believe mentions the fajr and asr times...then allah says it is HE(allah) who sends salat, because if the he was meant to be the prophet, it would sound like **he (mohammed SAW) it is who sents salat on you (who??) and angels too, that he (mohammed SAW) may bring you out from darkness into light, and He (Mohammed SAW) is ever most merciful to the believers* naudubillah, it is complete shirk if we read the he to be the prophet SAW, so the he mentioned in this ayat can only mean Allah SWT.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I was just making sure if Flamezz understood it correctly and see, he didn't. He thought in that verse He=Mohammed(saw) so I wanted you to make it clear for him...:-)

11

Welcome back ThandayMazaq. Pasting Arabic can be tricky so let's just discuss the translations shall we:

[33:41] O ye who believe! Celebrate the praises of Allah, and do this often

[33:42] And glorify Him morning and evening.

[33:43] He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers

PakistaniAbroad: Now step by step, without jumping ahead of ourselves, let's study the verses.

33:41 establishes to whom the verses are being addressed. It's the Believers.

33:42 commands the same 'o ye who believe' to glorify Allah morning and evening.

33:43 then tells the believers that Allah and Allah's angels "send blessings on the believers" so that Allah can bring the believers out from darkness.

Stop.. Think.

Since Allah and his angels "send their blessings" on those who believe??!! Why are there no "naats" for all those who believe???!!

Your turn.

12

PA,

did you read verse 33:56 clearly? Allah(swt) didn’t ask us to send blessings to ourselves, did He? In 33:56 Allah has asked us to send blessings only to Mohammed(saw)!

13

CorruptAngel, we’ll come to 33:56, meanwhile, ponder on 33:41, 42, 43.. Allah and his angels “send their blessings” on the believers…

would you say it’s ok to do “naats” for belivers because hey.. Allah and His angels do it!!

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

would you say it's ok to do "naats" for belivers because hey.. Allah and His angels do it!!
[/QUOTE]

I really don't know if it's ok to do that because it's not mentioned in Quran or hadiths. For us it is said that we should send blessings on Mohammed(saw) and salute him with all respect(i.e. by reciting durood shareef). I can't say whether we're allowed to do naats or not but if suppose we are, even then why should we do naats for believers when Allah(swt) didn't ask us to?

15

To the best of my knowledge naats are an innovation and more often than not, they contain a lot of shirk, glorifying and elevating Prophet Muhammad sallalahu aleyhe wasallam to a level higher than that of a Prophet.

16

I agree with you! :k:

I also have been wondering about whether we can say “Ya Mohammed” when we refer to the Prophet(pbuh). Is it allowed??

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

CorruptAngel, we'll come to 33:56, meanwhile, ponder on 33:41, 42, 43.. Allah and his angels "send their blessings" on the believers...

would you say it's ok to do "naats" for belivers because hey.. Allah and His angels do it!!
[/QUOTE]

i dont want to catch ur words, but i m gonna have to do it
u said
posted 05-06-2003 07:58 PM

do you seriously think Allah would "send darood" on a prophet of His??

Who is more worthy of praise?? Allah or a prophet Allah created and chose to deliver His message??

so ur point here is that allah does not praise the prophet because allah is more worthy of praise (totally agree) however, above u are saying allah and his angels send blessigns and praise the believers...so r u saying believers are more worthy of praise than allah >???? naudubillah...or the prophet SAW is not worthy to be praised even though the believers are praised??? your logic is falwed dude, give it up,

18

welcome back again ThandayMazaq..

My use of "quotes" should have explained that I'm in the process of explaining something .. I'm as we say 'playing along' with your understanding of the verses.. i'd appreciate if you were a good sport and played along too..

So .. lemme spell it out for you this once... sticking to 33:41, 42 and 43.

ASSUMING Allah and his angels are "sending durood" (the understanding of many including you) on the believers aren't they, the believers worthy enough of being praised by everyone else??

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ammarr: *
To the best of my knowledge naats are an innovation and more often than not, they contain a lot of shirk, glorifying and elevating Prophet Muhammad sallalahu aleyhe wasallam to a level higher than that of a Prophet.
[/QUOTE]

Can you give us some example.

20

google there are tons of ones which i've listened to. give me a couple of days and i shall try to point you to a few ones specifically.

However since 'naat' isn't something which either the Quran or the Sunnah commands us to, and it is something of a religious nature, it is an innovation. i.e. something neither practised by the Prophet or his companions neither commanded by the Quran.

So how can something like this be allowed even if it didn't have shirk in it? (and i'm not saying they dont have shirk in them because they do)