Murdering pigs!
Bush Declines to Condemn Israeli Attack
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Absolutely horrid.
Bush offers no condemnation of this, and American’s make excuses. Typical…
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*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Killing innocent Jews on buses, in diners and in pizza parlors. Did you forget about that?
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they're all either former or future IDF soldiers too, did you forget about that?
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That is exactly what is required to achieve peace. People ON BOTH SIDES respecting innocent life. What do you find objectionable in that statement?
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the fact that one side gets away with a slap on the wrist and while the other is constantly dehumanised.
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*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
they're all either former or future IDF soldiers too, did you forget about that?
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Not all.
why? did you manage to escape?
smart move.
there is no justification for hamas or idf killing innocent ppl period. No excuses needed, only condemnation in the strongest possible words from all, and actions by world powers and institutions to stop this cycle of violence.
Now wait a minute. Spare me the outrage.
A week ago we had Palestinian gunmen shooting four settlers, a mother and her three daughters (sorry, future IDF girls). THEN another attack took place on the funeral party for those four. THEN we have Palestinians holding body parts for ransom.
I am not defending either side, they are both equally wrong. The only thing that could be worse is not to pursue peace. Like it or not, the Palestinians have done nothing, and have proposed nothing which would ease tensions, and move towards peace. Sharon at least took some political risk in proposing the Gaza plan.
From a grand overview on things, Israel is winning. Hamas has been badly damaged. The large scale bombings inside Israel have stopped. The security fence is proceding. In the Middle East, some realities are still true. Power and ruthlessness are a part of any existence. It is a cruel evil area of the world, and shows no sign of getting any better.
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*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
why? did you manage to escape?
smart move.
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Religious as well as other reasons can exempt you from duty. None-the-less, are you justifying the killings of any person that has been, or will be a member of the IDF?
Why, thats what Israel led us to believe about hezbullah a couple a years back wasnt it. It was only until they ran without a backward glance, that we knew things were not as great as it seemed for Israel.
UTD: Me? wish ill to IDF Soldiers? As if! 
Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
**Now wait a minute. Spare me the outrage. *
oh outrage, i was worried that u were gonna ask me for some change :)
*I am not defending either side, they are both equally wrong. *
yup yup..they are
*The only thing that could be worse is not to pursue peace. Like it or not, the Palestinians have done nothing, and have proposed nothing which would ease tensions, and move towards peace. Sharon at least took some political risk in proposing the Gaza plan. *
the gaza plan was an abomination..had he looked at westbank also, then that could have been considered some real political risk and real action.
sad bit is that extremists on both sides are ruining it for everyone.
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*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
Why, thats what Israel led us to believe about hezbullah a couple a years back wasnt it. It was only until they ran without a backward glance, that we knew things were not as great as it seemed for Israel.
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the Fantasy title fits you well :)
eye for eye..kid for kid..soldier for soldier..civilian for civilian..leader for leader...the only language israelis understand..
Absolutely true. :k:
"the gaza plan was an abomination..had he looked at westbank also, then that could have been considered some real political risk and real action."
The Gaza paln was atleast something. The fact that the Likud rejected it is proof enough that it held some advantage for the Palestinians. I have never seen Palestinians EVER exercise "real political risk". The safe thing for a Palestinain leader to do is to attend a peace summit held by an American President, then lose his spine when he returns to the territories. What a courageous move would mean is compromise.
This means that some Palestnian leader will have to admit that Isreal will exist, they cannot be pushe into the sea, that peace will mean compromise, and that the Palestinian state will be nothing more than one more dusty third world country after all of the fighting is done. No Palestinain leader will appear before a Parlaiment and admit that the Intifada accomplished nothing, and that corruption is rampant within the PA.
And Outlaw, the Israelis seem to not only understand that equation, but they are benefitting by it. Might want to rethink who is losing more eyes. The Intifada is a failure, and peace may not seem as macho, it is more wise and noble.
UTD: oh come on, are you gonna tell me otherwise?
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
This means that some Palestnian leader will have to admit that Isreal will exist, they cannot be pushe into the sea, that peace will mean compromise.
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Israel will exist whether palistnians like it or not. So stop the whinging of how 'they might be pushed into the sea'. Its unrealistic, whatever the PA claims. At the mo, its not Israelis existence thats in danger, its the palistinians. So can we get a little perspective please?
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*Originally posted by outlaw: *
eye for eye..kid for kid..soldier for soldier..civilian for civilian..leader for leader...the only language israelis understand..
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How exactly has that policy helped anyone? What events over the past 50 years prove that theory? The Palestinians are in worse shape then they have ever been. That language has proved a dismal failure for both sides. Israel is making some dumb moves, but the lack of any moves by the Palestinians, as pointed out by OG, is even more dumb because their people are living in squalor.
OG
the israeili leader who took great risk was eventually assassinated by his own people. His vision is something that the next batch of leaders have not just ignored but abandonded regardless of what the other side was doing.
what is the eventual outcome..deadlock? creation of 2 viable nation without excuses from either side? or palestinians abandoning their demands for a separate country but a demand for equal rights.
its in everyone's interest that outcome #2 be pursued.
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*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
Israel will exist whether palistnians like it or not. So stop the whinging of how 'they might be pushed into the sea'. Its unrealistic, whatever the PA claims. At the mo, its not Israelis existence thats in danger, its the palistinians. So can we get a little perspective please?
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It's not whining, it's reality. Until it's official and unofficial policy of the Palestinians to acknowledge Israel and realize that they will not be pushed into the sea, the danger will continue for Palestinians.
people have to be honest, everyone who has a stake in it, or an opinion about this. People excusing the attacks by Hamas etc are not helping matters, niether does a lack of condemnation by W.
UN should come up with a final solution and both parties abide by it, or forced to abide by it, no soft gloves for either side.