Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

Israel kills 32 in air strikes By Laila Bassam1 hour, 35 minutes ago

Israel killed at least 32 civilians on Saturday, including 15 children, in air strikes meant to punish Lebanon for letting Hizbollah guerrillas menace the Jewish state's northern border.
Israel's bombing of Lebanese roads, bridges, ports and airports, as well as Hizbollah targets, is its most destructive onslaught since its 1982 invasion to expel Palestinian forces.
An Israeli missile incinerated a van in south Lebanon, killing 20 people, among them 15 children, in the deadliest single attack of the four-day-old campaign launched by Israel after Hizbollah captured two of its soldiers and killed eight.
Police said the van was carrying two families fleeing the village of Marwaheen after Israeli loudspeaker warnings to leave their homes.
Raids on roads and petrol stations in north, east and south Lebanon killed 12 people and wounded 32, security sources said, bringing the death toll in four days of Israeli attacks to 99. All but three of the dead have been civilians.
Hizbollah rockets, meanwhile, struck deeper into Israel than ever before on Saturday, wounding eight people and damaging two buildings in the Sea of Galilee town of Tiberias, police said.
Altogether 10 Israelis were wounded throughout northern Israel as about 80 rockets rained down from Lebanon. A military spokesman said Israel had deployed Patriot missile batteries in the northern city of Haifa to intercept Hizbollah rockets.
Rocket attacks have killed four civilians, including a child, in northern Israel this week.

President George W. Bush, who has declined to urge Israel to curb its military operations, said Syria should tell Hizbollah, which is also backed by Iran, to stop cross-border attacks.
In strikes on Beirut, Israeli warplanes flattened Hizbollah's nine-storey headquarters and destroyed the office of a Hamas leader, Mohammed Nazzal. An official of the ruling Palestinian Islamist group said Nazzal had survived the attack.
For the first time, Israel bombarded the ports of Beirut and Tripoli in the north, security sources and witnesses said.
Shortly after, Israeli warships bombarded Beirut's lighthouse and two ports in Christian areas north of the capital, a Lebanese security source said.
SYRIAN-LEBANESE BORDER
Israel's campaign in Lebanon coincided with an offensive it launched in the Gaza Strip on June 28 to try to retrieve another captured soldier, halt Palestinian rocket fire and destroy institutions of the Hamas-led government.
Israeli planes fired rockets near a Lebanese-Syrian border crossing, heightening fears that it could extend its campaign to Syria, which along with Iran is Hizbollah's main ally.
Israel said it had attacked targets only in Lebanon. A Syrian official also said Israel had not attacked Syria.
The Israeli army said it had struck about 150 targets in Lebanon so far, fewer than a dozen of them linked directly to Hizbollah. Most have hit civilian installations.

The assault has choked Lebanon's economy.
Israel aims not just to force Hizbollah to free the soldiers, which the Shi'ite group wants to trade for prisoners in Israel, but to destroy its ability to launch rocket attacks on northern Israel.
"The best way to stop the violence is for Hizbollah to lay down its arms and to stop attacking. And therefore I call upon Syria to exert influence over Hizbollah," Bush told a joint news conference with President Vladimir Putin at a summit in Russia.
The European Union, in a statement at the G8 summit, said Israel's assault on Lebanon was disproportionate.
Israeli army chief Dan Halutz said on Friday more targets would be bombed as part of the effort to remove Hizbollah from the border and replace it with a force answering to the Lebanese government.
LACKS UNITY
The Beirut government, led by an anti-Syrian coalition, lacks the unity and firepower to disarm Hizbollah, the only Lebanese faction to keep its guns after the 1975-90 civil war.
After Israel quit Lebanon in 2000, Hizbollah confined its attacks mainly to a disputed border area, but Wednesday's bold raid shattered tacit rules that had limited frontier violence.
The Israeli military said it had recovered the body of one of four sailors missing from a warship struck by Hizbollah off Beirut on Friday evening. A military source said Hizbollah had fired an Iranian-made missile at the vessel.
Hizbollah announced one of its fighters had been killed, only the second such death it has announced this week. In Gaza, Israeli aircraft attacked the Palestinian Economy Ministry and a house where a Hamas militant was killed and eight people were wounded. Israel has killed about 85 Palestinians, around half of them militants since the offensive was launched.

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

9 have been killed in Hafia by a Katyusha and while the shortsighted and simply disgusting might celebrate this it will only further escalate the situation and could spread the conflict.

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel’s response (threads)

hmm. I wonder if you were universally condemning when Israel wittingly murdered an entire Palestinian family having lunch on the Gaza beach 2 wks ago.

Or how about the convoy of civilians the Israelis (aka 21st century incarnation of the Nazis) targeted and bombed today, killing 20.
http://news.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/07/15/israel-kills-32-in-air-strikes/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftoday.reuters.com%2Fnews%2Fnewsarticle.aspx%3Ftype%3DworldNews%26storyid%3D2006-07-15T172307Z_01_L11538533_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml%26src%3Drss%26rpc%3D22&frame=true
Wow, 20 children incinerated by the Israelis, funny it doesn’t make headlines or attract any sympathies from you American hypocrites.
Do you think Muslims don’t know who is giving the Israelis their missiles and fighter jets?

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

Any innocent loss of life is tragic. The situation is very ugly, Israel left Lebanon years ago, Hizbollah has hijacked the country and brought them to war and they claimed they were their to protect them.

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

Hezbollah started this war and it will only end with their ultimate destruction

Israelis are tough SOB's...they will survive

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)


The proper context then is Lebanon and not just Beirut.

Lebanese utterly failed in controlling their border (char-Diwari).
Lebanese let the Maulanas run mad in the South.
Now Lebanese are paying with their destruction and death.

The situation is kind of similar to Wazirastan.
If we let Talibanic bubanic plague to take hold of Wazirastan.
If we let bubanic plague to launch attacks from Wazirastan,
Soon the planes are going to fly over Kohat and Bannu,
Soon the bridges will be destroyed in Sooba Sarhad.
If we still not stop the bubanic plague,
Attack will happen on Peshawar and on other big cities.

However luckily we have smarter and stronger leadership.
The leadership and Pak army was able to send in 1000's of it soldiers
The soldiers were able to kick bubanic @$$ in Wazirastan.
The result, no plane flies over Kohat, Bannu except PAF.

Kabuli lefties and Maulanas however couldn't stop Ben-La-Deen
The result: Daisy cutters on bubanic @$$.
The result: NATO troops are now ruling Afghani @$$.

So Lebanon has to control its borders
So lebanona has to kick Hizbis out of South,
Only then Beirut will be safe.

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

^stop beating around the bush. i just asked u a simple question. If YOUR family was being butchered the way the innocent lebanese civilians are, would you still be gung-ho abt this israeli operation? Be careful on what you wish onto others antiobl, nature has a twisted way of balancing things out either sooner or later.

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

There are too many civilian deaths in this operation, a ground campaign is upcoming which will target Hezbollah more directly.

Israel humiliated /Israel’s response (threads)

It is clear that Hezbollah has got the upper hand in this struggle, while Israel is fast losing international support.

Israel’s Hezbollah headache

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41893000/jpg/_41893410_hez-ap-body.jpg

Hezbollah began as a guerrilla force but over the years it has evolved a complex military infrastructure. Nonetheless it has few of the types of weapons available to the Israelis. Its only long-range punch comes from an assorted arsenal of missiles. Most of these are relatively short-range systems, generically known as Katyushas, capable of striking targets out to about 25km (16 miles). But the Hezbollah missile strikes on Israel’s northern port city of Haifa demonstrate that it also has an unknown quantity of longer-range systems in its arsenal. Most of these are Iranian-manufactured systems like the Fajr-3, with a 45-km range; the Fajr-5, with a range of some 75km; and the more potent Zelzal-2 with a range of up to 200km. This would bring much of Tel Aviv - Israel’s largest population centre - within range. None of these are guided or accurate systems but if the target is an urban area, accuracy is not needed. In addition, as the successful attack on an Israeli naval vessel demonstrates (an Egyptian freighter was also hit and abandoned by its crew), Hezbollah also has relatively sophisticated Iranian-supplied anti-shipping missiles at its disposal.

Air war limitations

Israeli strategists know an air war has its limits. No surprise then that Israeli leaders have taken the opportunity of the Hezbollah raid which captured two of their men, to set about the full-scale weakening of Hezbollah’s infrastructure. Headquarters, television stations, and missile storage bunkers have all been hit. But the Israelis have also sought to blockade Lebanon - closing Beirut’s airport, striking the Beirut-Damascus highway, and hitting various key transport links, especially bridges. The Israelis explain all this by saying that they are acting to prevent Hezbollah bringing in or moving up additional missiles to the border. Inevitably, such attacks, however precise, cause civilian casualties. Israel’s long-term goals are obvious. It wants to end the cross-border missile threat to its towns and cities by applying a blunt lesson in deterrence. It would like to see Hezbollah disarm and the Lebanese Army extend its control down to the international frontier. That is what UN Security Council Resolution 1559, of 2004, also demands - but it is hard to see how it can be enacted. Israel’s tactics are to some extent puzzling. The bludgeoning of Lebanon’s transport infrastructure will hinder, but will probably not stop, missile movements. Indeed, Hezbollah has shown remarkable resilience, and the rockets are still flying across Israel’s northern border. It is very hard to deliver a body blow to Hezbollah from the air. So is this all prelude to some significant Israeli incursion on the ground? On the face of things Israel has not yet mobilised sufficient troops for such an operation. And a comprehensive assault on Hezbollah would require a move into the strategically important Bekaa Valley, a step that would send alarm bells ringing in Syria, risking an even wider confrontation.

Dangers of complacency

Israel’s own military performance raises several questions. A deadly missile attack on one of its warships shocked Israel . Even Israeli commentators have pointed to the fact that the capture of Israeli soldiers, first by Palestinian militants and now Hezbollah, shows clear signs of laxness and a lack of vigilance on the part of the reserve units involved. Hezbollah has clearly signalled its desire to carry out such operations and it has attempted similar things in the past. Has reserve training been reduced too far? Has a certain complacency set in? The attack on the Israeli missile boat - one of its most sophisticated warships, a Saar-5 class corvette - also raises many questions.
It was hit by a Chinese-made, radar-guided C-802 missile. Did Israeli intelligence not know that these anti-shipping missiles had been given to Hezbollah by Iran? Israel’s naval electronics and defensive systems are among the best in the world, defensive systems intended to counter just such a threat. Some reports suggest that they were not even operating on board the vessel that was hit.

Proportionality

But most of all there is the question of the new Israeli government’s relationship with the military. Much has been made of the limited military experience of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defence Minister Amir Peretz.
Mr Olmert is in a tight spot. He has to act to protect Israel’s citizens. But ask a general what action can be taken in response to a threat and he will generally supply a long list of targets. Israel seems to be working through just such a list. But the real strategic calculation is to weigh up military advantage against wider political and diplomatic considerations. Has Israel got the balance right?
Clearly there are many views. But the overwhelming international consensus - not least from the G8 summit in St Petersburg - is that disproportionate military force has been used. President George W Bush - who has strongly backed Israeli action - nonetheless put this point rather neatly. “Defend yourself,” he said, “but be mindful of the consequences.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5184974.stm

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

^ Rationally speaking, this is what Hezbullah will be hoping for , they can't do much with air strikes, so a ground campaing can prove way too costly for the Israel soldiers. Remmember what happened on wednesday night when they tried to cross the south labenon boder? I guess the Israel will stick to air campaign where they virtually have no resistance.

Israel humiliated /Israel’s response (threads)

ISK: From his home in Lebanon
Posted by: “[email protected][email protected]
Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:19 am (PST)
From my home, I saw what the ‘war on terror’ meant

By Robert Fisk

_http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1174289.ece_
(http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1174289.ece)

07/14/06 “The Independent” – – All night I heard the jets, whispering high
above the Mediterranean. It lasted for hours, little fireflies that were
watching Beirut, waiting for dawn perhaps, because it was then that they
descended.

They came first to the little village of Dweir near Nabatiya in southern
Lebanon where an Israeli plane dropped a bomb on to the home of a Shia Muslim
cleric. He was killed. So was his wife. So were eight of his children. One was
decapitated. All they could find of a baby was its head and torso which a
young villager b*****shed in fury in front of the cameras. Then the planes
visited another home in Dweir and disposed of a family of seven.

It was a brisk start to Day Two of Israel’s latest “war on terror”, a
conflict that uses some of the same language - and a few of the same lies - as
George Bush’s larger “war on terror”. For just as we “degraded” Iraq - in 1991 as
well as 2003 - so yesterday it was Lebanon’s turn to be “degraded”.

That means not only physical death but economic death and it arrived at
Beirut’s gleaming new £300m international airport just before 6am as passengers
prepared to board flights to London and Paris.

From my home, I heard the F-16 which suddenly appeared over the newest
runway and fired a spread of rockets into it, ripping up 20 metres of tarmac and
blasting tons of concrete into the air in a massive explosion before a
Hetz-class Israeli gunboat fired on to the other runways.

Two of Middle East Airlines’ new Airbuses were left untouched but, within
minutes, the airport was deserted as passengers fled back to their homes and
hotels.

The flight indicators told the whole story: Paris no flight, London, no
flight, Cairo, no flight, Dubai, no flight, Baghdad - from the cauldron into the
fire if anyone had chosen to take it - no flight. Someone was playing “Don’t
Cry For Me, Argentina” over the public address system.

Then the Israelis went for the Hizbollah television station, Al-Manar,
clipping off its antenna with a missile but failing to put the station off air.
That might be a more understandable target - “Manar”, after all, broadcasts
Hizbollah propaganda. But was it really designed to find or recover the two
Israeli soldiers captured on Wednesday? Or to take revenge for the nine Israelis
killed in the same incident, one of the blackest days in recent Israeli Army
history although not as black as it was for the 36 Lebanese civilians killed
in the previous 24 hours.

An Israeli woman was also killed by a Hizbollah rocket fired into Israel.
So, in the grim exchange rate of these wretched conflicts, one Israeli death
equals just over three Lebanese; it’s a fair bet the exchange rate will grow
more murderous.

And by afternoon, the threats had grown worse. Israel would not “sit idly
by”. It ordered the entire population of the southern suburbs - home to
Hizbollah’s headquarters - to flee their homes by 3pm.

Save for a few hundred families, they stubbornly refused to leave.
Everywhere in Lebanon could now be a target, the Israelis announced. If Israel bombed
the suburbs, the Hizbollah roared, it would fire its long-range Katyushas at
the Israeli city of Haifa. One of them had apparently already damaged an
Israeli air base at Miron, a fact concealed at the time by Israeli censors.

It certainly frightened Lebanon’s Gulf tourists who packed the roads from
Bhamdoun in their 4x4s, fleeing for the safety of Syria and flights home from
Damascus. Another little economic death for Lebanon.

But what did all this mean, this ranting and threatening? I sat at home in
the early afternoon, going through my files of Israeli statements. It turned
out that Israel had threatened not to “sit idly by” (or occasionally “stand
idly by”) in Lebanon on at least six occasions in the past 26 years, most
famously when the late Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin promised that he
would not “stand idly by” while Christians were threatened here in 1980 - only to
withdraw his soldiers and leave the Christians to their bloody fate three
years later.

The Lebanese are always left to their fate. Israel’s Prime Minister, Ehud
Olmert, says he holds the Lebanese government responsible for the attacks on
the border that breached the international frontier on Wednesday.

But Mr Olmert and everyone knows that the weak and fractious government of
the Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora isn’t capable of controlling a
single militiaman, let alone the Hizbollah.

Yet wasn’t this the same set of Lebanese political leaders congratulated by
the United States last year for its democratic elections and its freedom from
Syria? Indeed, a man who sees Bush as a friend - perhaps “saw” is a better
word - is Saad Hariri, son of the ex-Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri who
built much of the infrastructure that Israel is now destroying and whose
murder last year - by Syrian agents? - supposedly outraged Mr Bush.

Yesterday morning, Saad Hariri, the son, was flying into Beirut when
America’s Israeli allies arrived to bomb the airport. He had to turn round as his
aircraft skulked off to Cyprus for refuge.

But it was the undercurrent of terror-speak that was particularly
frightening yesterday.

Lebanon was an “axis of terror”, Israel was “fighting terror on all fronts”.
During the morning, I had to cut across an interview with an Australian
radio station when an Israeli reporter stated - totally untruthfully - that there
were Iranian Revolutionary Guards in Lebanon and that not all Syria’s troops
had left.

And so it is terror, terror, terror again and Lebanon is once more to be
depicted as the mythic terror centre of the Middle East along, I suppose with
Gaza. And the West Bank. And Syria. And, of course, Iraq. And Iran. And
Afghanistan. And who knows where next?


CONSTRUCTION

Timber seasons better
if it’s cut in the fourth quarter
of a barren sign.

In Cancer
the most fertile of skysigns
I shall build a house
that will stand forever.

-Audre Lorde

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

Isreal is doing fine with the airstrikes for now. This is the equivalent of 1991 desert storm, ten days to two weeks of pounding will do a lot to soften up South Lebanon. The Israelis have had fewer and fewer rockets each day into Northern Israel. The Israelis have excellent drone systems with good imaging. Once they figure out the best methods for finding the rocket launchers, they will start taking more of them out each day. The IDF estimated that they have gotten 25% of the rockets. Another 10% have been fired. In another couple of days 60 or 70% of Hizbullahs inventory will be gone, with no way of resupply.

That accomplishes one major goal. Within two weeks the entire focus will be on South Lebanon, as the area will have been softened up. There might even be a cease fire in the Beirut area to allow evacuations. Then the decision will be take on an invasion.

Nasrallahs' belligerent words provide cover for 3 or 4 more days of pounding.

Re: Israel’s Hezbollah headache

[quote=Silly Billy]
It is clear that Hezbollah has got the upper hand in this struggle, while Israel is fast losing international support.

Israel’s Hezbollah headache …[

Dunno if Hizbis have upper hand in this. For true “upper hand” you have to own the space “oopper” (above) you. Unfortunately that space is dominated by the other party.

My fear is that Israel will use its airforce for another couple of weeks, and then push the military in. That will uproot thousands from Southern Areas who may not be Hizbi supporters.

Israelis may suffer few more Fajar or Zuhur attacks. Ultimately Tel Aviv can use those attacks (and resulting deaths) as a pretext for annexing Southern Lebanon.](“BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel's Hezbollah headache”)

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

I will never understand the jihadi mindset. What did Hezobollah think it would accomplish? Destruction of Israel?

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)


Your insane repitition on a $tupid question is purely laughable. Tomorrow you will ask what I'd do if my family is subjected to African or Mogdeshu civil war and femine. Oh baba! pray tell what Pakistanis have to do with the fate of African or Arab tribals. They create civil wars that results in death and destruction to them.

We as honest observers can only say to these tribals" Don't create anarchy". It is upto these Arab tribals to listen or ignore the good advice. It is their actions resulting in destruction, nor ours.

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

The conflict continues, "protection of Israel" that is, where most of the “intellectual” crowd thinks that Israel will be safe from now. Despite bitter and shameful lesson from the past, Israel and its ally continue to remain addicted to a military assault; according to them, this will teach the militants a lesson and ensure their safety. If we read history, the only thing we know is that Israel always blankets herself as victims and kills innocent people, most of their operations overdone to an extent where they loose international support.

To say this operation in Gaza and Lebanon is going to provide them with security is a false reality, when it is only going to destabilize and undermine Israel’s security even further. This is nothing new, Israel’s occupation has lasted nearly 40 years in Gaza and it seems that Israeli leaders, Americans and the “intellectuals” continue to suffer from the delusion that they can defeat violent Palestinian resistance with occupation. What we have learned from last 40 years is the despite the massive imbalance and support for the Palestinians, they will never abide an outcome that will make a mockery of Palestinians national aspirations.

Re: Khuda ka kehr nazil ho in darindoon perr.

Dushwari, next time you start a thread, make sure to check if a similar check exists or not otherwise you'll just earn a warning :o

Re: Israel humiliated /Israel's response (threads)

Security for Israel is only an issue when Israel starts losing its territory on continuous basis.

However the history clearly shows that with every war, Israel gained more territory. It returns some of it only when Arabs do their "Murgha" position and draw lines in the sand with their noses. Look Sadat did the 10 lines in the sand and got Sinai back. Assad Jr. will do the same after some time and he may get Golan back. Palestinians and Hizbis will lose Gaza and Southern Lebanon if they continue following MMA (Mad Mullah Association).

Re: Khuda ka kehr nazil ho in darindoon perr.

^^:rotfl:

Israel humiliated /Israel’s response (threads)

Not sure how accurate this piece of news info is. If it is in fact true, the omens for Lebanon are not good.

Ground assault on Hizbi positions will result in more death and destruction. Let’s see what our Ninja turtle Nijat says about this.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp#5562

** Israel sends ground troops into Lebanon**

BEIRUT: Israeli ground troops entered southern Lebanon to attack Hezbollah bases on the border, a government spokesman said Monday, but rapidly returned to Israel after conducting their military operations.

Israel’s six-day-old offensive against Hezbollah following the capture of two Israeli soldiers has been primarily an aerial campaign, but government spokesman, Asaf Shariv, said the Israeli army chief of staff confirmed that ground troops had gone into Lebanon, if only briefly.

A military official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information, said that a small group of Israeli troops had crossed into Lebanon overnight to attack a Hezbollah position, but then returned to Israel.

“There was a small operation in a very limited area overnight,” the source said. “That is over.”
Israel has been reluctant to send ground troops into southern Lebanon; an area that officials say has been heavily mined by Hezbollah and could lead to many Israeli casualties.

Israel would also want to quickly withdraw from the area, rather than get involved in a prolonged conflict like its 18-year occupation of southern Lebanon that ended in May 2000.

The bloody nature of the fighting at the that time and the high number of casualties finally forced the government to cave into public pressure to withdraw from southern Lebanon and end the contentious occupation.

Meanwhile, Lebanon state television stated that reported that an Israeli F-16 aircraft was shot down in Beirut.