Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
121

Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

No, but look what is happening in Iraq.

The insurgents fire at american troops and they get killed in return.

The problem is, that these terrorists get brainwashed from childhood, and don't know anything else but to hate Jews and do Jihad and die battling the Jews will go to heaven.

So, Israel will be under constant attack and the Arabs will die in Mass.

Look at whats happening in Sri Lanka, or Colombia.

LTTE, FARC and AUC are all dying in mass but they are also causing casualties to Bogota, Colombia or Colombo, Sri Lanka....

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

^ mercernary, WRONG example. People fighting in Iraq are different groups, and NONE of them believes they are fighting Jews, so stop defending Jews in unwanted corners.

Everyone who is getting "brainwashed" from childhood to hate others and fight them may be called terrorist, but that would also include Zionists, can you please check with Israeli consulate near you to see if it acceptable?

If Arabs will die in "mass" why is that Israel's problem? The problem is no one wants to give up the captured land.

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Ya, but they put America, Jews, Zionists, in one boat..

So in their way, their fighting Americans, but they could as well be fighting the Jews or Israelis.

I am just showing you that people are ready to become jihadists even though they are not native to that problem

even if Israel moves to the green line of 1967, what guarantee does Israel have that West Bank will not be used to launch attacks against it?

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

For someone who knows their history you are flip-flopping like a fish out of water. Now please tell me which would you prefer to stick to the USSR or the British? Becuase you are switching between the two. You are grasping at straws. First you say the british, then you say the Jews and now you say the USSR. Next you will be telling me is Palau commissioned the special committee :rolleyes:

Secondly once again I must state the facts of the situation. The UN did not vote on the creation of Israel. If it did so it would have to go through the Trusteeship council. I am assuming you know what that is. Considering that the British or as you now say the USSR asked for the special committee to be created under the GA, the GA voted on the partition plan. Not on the creation of Israel, as Palestine was still under the Mandate of the British. The British as per international rules could accept or reject the partition plan. It was their decision to accept the plan. They with drew from a mandate that was theirs and then promptly Israel declared independence.

The UN under its own charter and International Law can not have had anything to do with the creation of a state. That would be violating the rules of the GA and infringing on the role of the Trusteeship council.

As for you links. Do read them. I am not here to educate you.

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies


Can they not launch against Israel from current borders? They can and probably they are, so how does it differ if Israel were to withdraw to pre-1967 borders? its EGO! Israel, esp Zionists will take that as "defeat/insult", "bowing to terrorism" etc. However, if Israel DOES withdraw that would be show of Israel's willingness towards peace, but who wants to give up land so easily?

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

"For someone who knows their history you are flip-flopping like a fish out of water. Now please tell me which would you prefer to stick to the USSR or the British? Becuase you are switching between the two. You are grasping at straws. First you say the british, then you say the Jews and now you say the USSR. Next you will be telling me is Palau commissioned the special committee"

-->LOL. Flip flopping. See here is the problem. I assumed that you guys knew the basics on how Israel was created, so I didn't bother writing such intricate details in my posts. But now I know that you guys don't have the basic knowledge to begin with. It was a British colony, which they were leaving. The Jews in british mandate of Palestine, asked USSR to go to the UN on their behalf and petition the members state. They did and they supported the creation of Israel.

This was done on May 14, Israel declared its independence. This was rejeceted by Arabs who now planned to destroy Israel.

"Secondly once again I must state the facts of the situation. The UN did not vote on the creation of Israel. If it did so it would have to go through the Trusteeship council. I am assuming you know what that is. Considering that the British or as you now say the USSR asked for the special committee to be created under the GA, the GA voted on the partition plan. Not on the creation of Israel, as Palestine was still under the Mandate of the British. The British as per international rules could accept or reject the partition plan. It was their decision to accept the plan. They with drew from a mandate that was theirs and then promptly Israel declared independence."

-->The UN did vote to allow the Jews living in the British Mandate of Palestine to create their own state and they did. You are mistaken on that part. The British were leaving, and on the day that their rule was to end, Israel was created.

"The UN under its own charter and International Law can not have had anything to do with the creation of a state. That would be violating the rules of the GA and infringing on the role of the Trusteeship council.

As for you links. Do read them. I am not here to educate you."

-->Exactly. The Jews in British Mandate of Palestine wanted to declare statehood. Since Britain was neutral/against this idea due to offending Arabs, the Jews then asked USSR, which brought it forward to UN. This vote took place on the day that the British pulled out of British Mandate of Palestine. When the vote passed through, Israel was created.

Do you even know the basics of this process or what????

As for the links, I can write a book on this subject matter, kiddo, who are you trying to educate.

>>> New Smilies <<<
127

Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

You really mean to tell me that once Israel withdraws to 1967 borders, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, will stop with their rhetoric of destroying Israel, etc..

You can't be serious

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Can't say about "Hamas" but others won't be able to speak, if they haven't done any damage lately what can they do afterwards?

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Here is a post that I didn't get answer about from this "merecenary" (is he getting paid by someone to post here?)
Here is a part of that post again:

Michael Neumann is a Jewish writer, born in Germany, and currently living in Canada. He wrote a book recently titled "The Case Against Israel". It's on Amazon too. One of the reviewers of this book on Amazon, gives this summary of logical argument used by Neumann against Zionism and Israel:

1) Zionism meant the establishment of a Jewish controlled state in the territory known as Palestine

2) There was already a large non-Jewish people living in this territory

3) Therefore, logically, for there to be an Israel, the majority of the inhabitants of the land had to be removed by force.

4) Thus, conflict was a necessary outcome of the Israel project.

I would like to see the response from mercenary here about the above argument from Neumann.

NOTE: Prince Abbas, please use nicks to address each other.

  • "The central fact of the conflict is that Zionists sought sovereignty in Palestine. From this, all else follows: the Arab response and all that came after."

جو ظلم پہ لعنت نہ کرے آپ لعیں ہے
جو جبر کا منکر نہیں‌وہ منکرِ‌دیں‌ہے
jo zulm pe laanat na karay aap la'een he
jo jabr ka munkir nahin wo munkir e deen he

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

No one is getting "paid". If you insist on this vain, are you getting paid by the Nazis?

Zionism may have done some design work, some planning for the state of Israel. There are people who believe in it, and the others term it as Nazi propaganda.

So let's say, Zionists planned Israel from 1600 and got it in 1948. What were Arabs doing all that time, warming up their eggs?

Next, Israel gets established in 1948, and as you say it's necessary outcome was the conflict. How come this conflict has been so one sided. You think one side is totally moronic, while the other has god-like powers?

People who harp on Zionism, fail to show why Arabs have become tools in the hands of Zionism? Where are the Arab brains that would get them out of this trouble?

Munkar-e-Din slogans may get you a seat right next to some village--Mullah . It will never help you win in this world or the world hereafter. Following $tupid people results in guaranteed failure. Palestine is a living example of it.

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

It was a sarcasm directed at his nick.

Question is. Do YOU consider the planning for the state of Israel a la Nazi propaganda?

Let’s say they were warming up their eggs. Now how does it justify illegal establishment of the state of Israel?

  • Not god-like powers, but more technologically advanced western powers.
  • Are you saying that the necessary outcome of establishment of the state of Israel was NOT conflict?

Still no justification for Zionist expansionism.
What Arabs did and did not do is secondary. The problem started when Israel was imposed out of nowhere over original inhabitants. And that was the primary cause of violence and conflict in Middle East.

It’s a quote from a Faiz Ahmed Faiz poem.
This is a beautiful shayr from Faiz. It shows the height of humanity, and the true teachings of belief in Justice and Fairness from Islam.

I am surprised you call it “idiocy”. How come?

You think Palestinians are stupid? You might consider Palestinian reaction to imposition of Israel and forcing them out of land, as being “stupidity”, but some people being stupid does not make them wrong as well.

Plans for the winter break
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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

1. Huh? Oh ** **Tali do hath say bajti hai. How come you want to ignore one party and blame the other. You need two hands to clap, and one hand to slap an idiot.

Arabs and their tribal reaction is the very reason why the conflict has been festering for so long.

2. Read the thread "Follow Palestine, become Palestine" for more details.

p.s. Thanks for sharing "shair" by Faiz. Just enjoy his Urdu-dani and avoid getting into Mullah-dani.

NOTE: Were you not informed before not to use "baboo" term?

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Point: I am talking about the very basic action which resulted in the conflict. What Arabs did or did not do is really irrelevant.
The seed of conflict lies in the illegitimate establishment of the state of Israel and its illegal occupation.

You need to read Neumann’s arguments again.

So you were clearly wrong, and what I quoted was NOT idiotic “Mullah Nasruddin” stuff after all.

I am wondering what made you change your mind? Was it Faiz’s name?
And I thought people argued based on principles!

جو ظلم پہ لعنت نہ کرے آپ لعیں ہے
جو جبر کا منکر نہیں‌وہ منکرِ‌دیں‌ہے
jo zulm pe laanat na karay aap la’een he
jo jabr ka munkir nahin wo munkir e deen he

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Who gives a damn about what this "Neumann" has to say

I can quote you hundreds of Jews who support Israel

Just because one Jew doesnt support Israel doesnt mean that I have to change my view point

Please don't join a debating any time in the future

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Dear , you TOTALLY missed the point.
Everyone knows there are many Jews who do not support Zionism or the state of Israel. Therefore, there was no "news" in my post if it was only to mention Neumann's Jewish background.
The purpose of the post was to see your reply to the ARGUMENTS presented in his book.

NOTE: Use nicks to address each other, not your made labels!

جو ظلم پہ لعنت نہ کرے آپ لعیں ہے
جو جبر کا منکر نہیں‌وہ منکرِ‌دیں‌ہے
jo zulm pe laanat na karay aap la'een he
jo jabr ka munkir nahin wo munkir e deen he

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

"Dear , you TOTALLY missed the point.
Everyone knows there are many Jews who do not support Zionism or the state of Israel. Therefore, there was no "news" in my post if it was only to mention Neumann's Jewish background.
The purpose of the post was to see your reply to the ARGUMENTS presented in his book."

-->And his arguments are flawed. Jews deserve their homeland in the ancient land of Israel where Jews were always present and made 20% of the minority since the Ottoman Empire. And Mr. Prince Abbas, if you cannot offer me conjecture, you have to resort to name calling, like calling me a . This truly shows that you are noting more than a madrassa educated

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Israelis were in Haifa way before 1948 running successful farms and restaurants. They were back then, producing the best fruit (oranges) and other products. This is just to show that Israel didn't come into being out of thin air. There were Jewish people living in their "own" land much before 1948.

Palestinians and Arabs wasted chances to develop, and continued selling their land to Jewish farmers. They relied more on playing super power games (just like today) when Mufti Palestine became the Nazi henchman.

Now if you side with Nazis and Nazis lose, you should accept the punishment from the winners. Just don't be a sore loser.

You keep on harping on 1948 while ignoring the years preceding it. That is what I call Arab styled tribal terrible analysis of history. The result of such analysis is misery

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Exactly.

Arabs sided with Nazis because they killed Jews...

What a blood thirsty concept

Arabs are the most hypocritical people on the planet

thats why every where they are being mistreated

ISRAEL has every right to exist

It will exist

And there isnt a damn thing you can do about to change that

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

Look buddy, nobody is more educated then you okay?
Jeez..

Let’s get the fact straight:

**JEWS and ARABS LIVED PEACEFULLY before the creation of israel HINT: THAT IS WHY NOBODY WANTED THE CREATION OF ISRAEL.

Arabs HELPED rescue JEWS out of the HOLOCAUST

Jews are Not Zionists. http://www.nkusa.org

You call yourself a Muslim by defending animals who rape, kill children mothers..fathers..etc.

Please go to a local mosque or goto a scholar/mufti/imam whoever is knowledgable in your area and find out the truth. Do no come up with ideas in your head and then “brainwash” (as u call it) other people.

Anyways Allah knows best, no fighting amongst Muslims.
**

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Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies

NO one will be allowed to call each other by something other then their nick, consider it a warning effective NOW!