Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
i thought it was jinnah:woho:
dont make ur country’s existanse ‘nazayaz’
Ur Israeli support is appreciated but it isnt an inch closer to reality:hehe:
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
Politically there is no doubt about the jewish lobby's strength and ability to influence the minds(evident from mercenary's strong advocacy of Israel).But militarily it is highly vulnerable(thats why Israel & USA are so panic over Iran's Uranium enrichment program!).Geographically Israel lacks strategic depth necessary for defence.Arrow ll or even Arrow lll missile defence systems are at maximum 70% accurate;which implies out of 10 missiles fired at Israel atleast 3 will hit the targets.So in case of nuclear-warheads the complete wiping out of that geographically tiny state is not a far-fetched possibility.Mercenery i had stated International City status for Jerusalem but u replied Arabs can't be entrusted with the control of this mutually accepted holy city.When we demand to give its control to the Arabs?Let it be the UN! If u can convince the Israelis about changing the status of Jerusalem i promise u to convince the whole muslim world to accept the present map of Israel forever.But i know you'll not cosume ur energy convincing the jews as you CAN'T .
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
These are the themes of Arab $tupidities and now Iranians' as well. Arabs didn't learn in the last 60 years, Iranians will go down the same $hite hole for the next 60 years.
In the end, just like Arabs, Iranians will be begging for a bottle of water, and kissing the feet of Allied soldiers. Just remember the pictures from Gulf wars I and II.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
US military might is a reality but one must not forget how Cuba stood firm in direct confrontation with nearby super power.one must be realistic but not cowed down!
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
Ahhh the favorite topic of leftie commies the jannat established by great Ruskie masters called Cuba.
Oh Baboo Khan! Your pals are locked up in a place affectionately called Gitmo. guess what? Gitmo is established on Cuban soil and good ole Fidel can do a squat about that.
So keep these stories of Cuban machoism. And let Iranians find a way to escape the oncoming train. Otherwise they will be turned into a pile of minced meat.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
I don’t understand a few things.
Iraq:
Why didn’t any muslim raise any voice when Saddam, a muslim, was murdering thousands of muslims?
Even today, most muslims are being killed by those “hardcore” muslims, under the leadership of “mujahid” Zarqawi.
Afghanistan:
More Muslims were killed during the civil war, and not by Americans. And it continues this way even today.
Israel:
No person with an inkling of righteousness would ever support or overlook Zionist oppression.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
mercenery2k:
[quote]
As soon as they were created, both were attacked by foreign aggression in order to destroy it. India attacked Pakistan to take Kashmir and other vital areas and Arabs attacked Israel in order to destroy it.
[/quote]
Pakistan was formed through legal process. Every nation in the world accepted its legality. Pakistan did not occupy any land.
Israel was FORCED on the map of Middle East by unjust occupation, and mass-deportation of people who had been living in that country for thousands of years.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
"Pakistan was formed through legal process. Every nation in the world accepted its legality. Pakistan did not occupy any land."
-->So was Israel. Israel did not occupy Palestinian land but was created on areas where Jews were the majority. USA, UK, USSR, China, France all accepted Israel's right to exist.
"Israel was FORCED on the map of Middle East by unjust occupation, and mass-deportation of people who had been living in that country for thousands of years."
-->What unjust occupation are you talking about? Mass Deportation, perhaps you are referring to the pathetic attempt by Arab forces to paint Jews as demons which completely backfired as many Palestinians fled when the Arab forces started to lose the battle. Thousands of years?? The Arabs invaded and conquered Palestine and the surrounding areas around 600-700. So thats about 1300 years. But the Jews have lived there and will continue to live there.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
China recognized Israel in 1948? Such a plain lie is expected from a blind person like you.
Tell us again. Was it deliberate, or was it just your lack of information?
Majority? Really? I am not going to argue on this great information of yours. Just one question:
Pakistan was formed through democratic means based on democratic process, and accepted by every party in British India.
On what basis was Israel formed?
About Israel being formed on “Majority Jewish areas”, this is another lie. As this website says, Zionsists were given visas from throughout the world to come to Palestine so as to form a majority Zionist area where Israel could be formed.
Question: Do you feel ANY shame when you fabricate lies to support Zionist murderers?
Beta, why did the Palestinians had to leave their houses if Zionists were not demons?
Who said anything about Sephardic Jews? They have the right to live wherever they want to. It’s about Zionists apartheid regime of Israel, founded by foreign occupiers.
Are you saying that Arabs somehow threw the Jews out of Palestine? Then from where did that Jewish majority come, that you mentioned earlier?
Are you saying that there was no Palestinian living in that area before Arabs?
Do you smoke weed or are you just plain dumb?
Anyone with any sense of decency can never support Zionists. Where is your comment on Jews against Zionism?
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
Here are some NICE comments by Zionist haters. And you compare Pakistan with THESE freaks?
“sharm tum ko magar nahin aati”
http://www.sue.be/pal/zion_quotes.html
“For Europe we would constitute [in Palestine] a part of the wall against Asia, we would serve as an outpost of Culture against Barbarism.”
Theodor Herzl, Der Judenstaat.
You merecenery2k, belong to BARBARIC Asia. Yet you still lick Zionist feet.
Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly."
Theodor Herzl, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine. Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.
So tell me again. Who forced Palestinians out of their homes?
“A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison in your behalf. Or else Or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to disturb or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous but IMPOSSIBLE! Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands to fall by the question of armed force. It is important to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot or else I am through with playing at colonizing.”
Vladimir Jabotinsky: The Iron Wall, 1923.
You compare Pakistan with Israel. Did Pakistan colonized any area like Zionists did? And did Pakistan forced anyone out of Pakistan, like Zionists?
“Has any people ever been seen to give up their territory of their own free will? In the same way the Arabs of Palestine will not renounce their sovereignty without violence.”
Vladimir Jabotinsky, quoted by Maxime Rodinson in Peuple Juif ou Problem Juif. (Jewish people or Jewish problem)
“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zahor’s Ben-Gurion: The Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p.157.
Has this ever been Pakistan’s policy?
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
mercenery2k:
[quote]
and there is nothing you can say to me which is going to make me change my mind
[/quote]
How does your not changing the mind in ANY way matter in the first place?
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
"China recognized Israel in 1948? Such a plain lie is expected from a blind person like you.
Tell us again. Was it deliberate, or was it just your lack of information?"
-->LOL. Nice choice words. To be expected from someone who lacks any semblence of information. China did indeed recognize Israel and established trade and diplomatic missions, but the Chinese embassy was not formed due to the Chinese civil war which ended in 1949. China later exchanged ambassadors with Israel. Dude, read a history book for goodness sake so I don't have to educate you in the ABC's of History.
"Majority? Really? I am not going to argue on this great information of yours. Just one question:
Pakistan was formed through democratic means based on democratic process, and accepted by every party in British India.
On what basis was Israel formed?
About Israel being formed on "Majority Jewish areas", this is another lie. As this website says, Zionsists were given visas from throughout the world to come to Palestine so as to form a majority Zionist area where Israel could be formed.
Question: Do you feel ANY shame when you fabricate lies to support Zionist murderers?"
-->Israel was formed on democractic means through a democratic process and accepted by the majority of the UN. The Arabs were the ones who invaded Israel trying to destroy it. Please look at a map of Israel when it got its independence in May 1948, see how small it is as compared to now. This website is full of lies, even an amateur person can tell that. Zionists were not given visas. British prevented them from coming to Israel because Britain wanted to maintain strong ties with the Arabs because they had oil and it did not want them to drift to the Soviet Camp during the cold war. Israel's population was only 100,000 when it became a nation. Its population reached over 1 million after the Arabs expelled Jews living in Arab countries in 1949. And to answer question, I don't feel shame when I learn about something, understand it. I support the state of Israel and I support that the Jewish people have a home where they can live and practice their religion. They have been persecuted throughout history. I am not going to be one of those Pakistanis or muslims who knows absolutley nothing about Jews and start making these ridicilous statements about them. I know more than you can possibly fathom.
"Beta, why did the Palestinians had to leave their houses if Zionists were not demons?"
-->Have you ever heard of Dir Yassin. If not, please google that and see what you come up with. Let me make it easier on you. Dir Yassin was an Arab village. When the 150,000+ Arab armies attacked Israel, Israel drafted all men to fight. That included members of the Jewish terrorist groups like the IZL and the Stern Gang. During fighting, the Israeli Army took over a village called Dir Yassin. Some members of the Stern Gang were in the Israeli Army which took over the village and they rounded up all the men and started shooting them. Jews from neighbouring villages came and stopped the massacare. When the Arab leadership heard of this massacare, they thought it would be a brilliant use of propoganda. The Egyptian Army had been halted around 20km from Tel Aviv and with the arrival of Czech weaponry, Israel could go on the offensive. The Palestinian radio started broadcasting stories, fabricated stories that the Israelis were massacaring civilians, raping women, killing every Arab in sight. The Arabs thought that by showing how evil the Israelis are, they can inspire the Arab soldiers and the civilians to fight harder. But the opposite happened, and the Palestinian civilians fled in fear of the Israelis. This has been regarded by EVERY arab Academic, scholar, leader, etc. as the single greatest mistake during the 1948 War.
"Who said anything about Sephardic Jews? They have the right to live wherever they want to. It's about Zionists apartheid regime of Israel, founded by foreign occupiers.
Are you saying that Arabs somehow threw the Jews out of Palestine? Then from where did that Jewish majority come, that you mentioned earlier?
Are you saying that there was no Palestinian living in that area before Arabs?
Do you smoke weed or are you just plain dumb?"
-->So Pakistan is an apartheid regime because all the hindus left when Pakistan became a country. When countries are created, people move from one area to another. The arabs didn't throw the Jews out of palestine, but the Arab population was bigger, and the Jewish birthrate lower, so Jewish population always hovered around 20%. Arabs lived in cities where as Jews lived in the rural farm areas. Pre-1947 India was a hindu majority countries and yet some parts of India had muslim majorities that became Pakistan and Bangladesh. Have you ever read any history book?? Do you know about the Israelites and Philisties and their 1000 year war??
Do you smoke weed or are you just plain dumb?
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
**Palestine and Israel **
Author and Page information
Skip this section and go straight to the main content
• by Anup Shah
• This Page Last Updated Tuesday, April 03, 2001
• This page: http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Palestine.asp.
• To print full details (expanded/alternative links, side notes, etc.) use the printer-friendly version:
o http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Palestine.asp?p=1
Introduction
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or Arab-Israeli conflict, or whatever name it goes by, is perhaps one of the more sensitive issues that is discussed. The introduction section talks about the western involvement in the Middle East in general, that forms a backdrop to the situation between Palestine and Israel. Find out more.
Oslo Dead? Violence toward end of 2000
The end of September and October, 2000, has seen a series of violent events unfold that probably unofficially mark the end of the Oslo accords. The 1993 Oslo Accord, whereby Israel recognized the PLO and gave them limited autonomy in return for peace and an end to Palestinian claims on Israeli territory, has been largely criticized as a one-sided accord, that benefits only Israel, not the Palestinian people.
A former Israeli military general, Ariel Sharon, (accompanied by 1000 soldiers) visited a holy Muslim site, called the Temple Mount by the Israelis, and Haram al Sharif (Noble Sanctuary) by the Muslims and proclaimed it as eternal Israeli territory. Sharon had been accused of massacres in his military days and is well known to all. He is very right wing and against the peace process. This infuriated Palestinians, and led to a series of protests and violence.
Around the world, countries have condemned Israel’s excessive violence. Human Rights groups have likewise criticized the Israeli forces.
Find out more about the current violence and reactions.
Mainstream media portrayal
The mainstream media reports on the conflict from countries such as the US and UK have been very biased towards the Israeli viewpoint. Headlines of many mainstream sources also give misleading perceptions. Things like “Israel extends time for peace” (USA Today, October 10, 2000) leave the impression that the violence is solely the fault of Palestinians. This section provides a look at the mainstream portrayal of the crisis and provides quotes and links from various journalist and other commentators, including Palestinians critical of Israeli and Palestinian leadership and Jewish commentators critical on Israeli actions. Find out more.
Criticisms of Arafat and Palestinian leadership
Over the years, Palestinians are getting increasingly frustrated at Yasser Arafat and the leadership of being corrupt and looking for their own power interests. As documented by the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group and others, Arafat’s own security forces have committed human rights violations against Palestinians. While initially their popularity was high with the Palestinian population, after years of living away from Palestine, many of the leaders seem to have become out of touch with the people. Find out more.
Criticisms of Israeli leadership
The Israeli leadership attempts to blame Arafat for the current violence, and claims that they are defending their territory. However, what is often not admitted is that they are militarily occupying Palestinian territory that the United Nations has demanded they withdraw from for over 30 years. Their military have been condemned for using excessive force, including live ammunition, helicopter gun-ships, tanks etc. The continual settlement of land, of isolating Palestinians goes on. Palestinians are denied full rights. The various “peace” accords are often one-sided in favor of Israel. Find out more about criticisms of the Israeli leadership.
Criticisms of the US
Traditionally, the US has opposed almost all UN Security Council resolutions that are critical of Israel. Israel is the premier US ally in the Middle East region, due to oil interests. However, that has not stopped the US leadership of criticizing or undermining UN Security Council and other multilateral activities and actions. Instead, it claims to be a well-intentioned moderator and to be far more deserving of this role than the larger international community. It is hard to imagine that, when it has poured billions of dollars of “aid” to Israel, in the form of weapons and military muscle. Find out more about the US role and comments in the latest crisis.
The role of the United Nations
The United Nations has been virtually side-lined on the question of Palestine. In the past, while they have issued numerous resolutions, such as UN Resolution 242 the so-called “land for peace” resolution requiring Israel to withdraw to pre-1967 borders and return all captured land in return for peace with its Arab neighbors, the US has vetoed any such effective actions by the UN. Furthermore, the 1948 UN Resolution 181 allowed for both Jews and Arabs to live in Israel, which goes counter to claims of some groups that Israel should not exist.
Hence, the Palestinian people as well as Israelis do not see much hope in the UN helping. Recently, Kofi Annan has been involved in talks, but only when the US has permitted it. (A convenient scapegoat if things don’t go well).
At the beginning of the present intifada, at the end of 2000 there was a UN resolution to look into the violence. This resulted in US ambassador, Richard Holbrooke describing the resolution as biased and that the Security Council ended its usefulness. Yes, because it criticized Israel then the US did not like that. Because it did not support the Israeli positions, it ended its “usefulness” to the US interests. But that was in context of there being a unanimous vote at the UN to condemn the Israeli actions with the US abstaining.
While the UN web site on the Question of Palestine does provide a lot of information, including texts of various resolutions and so forth, it remains to be seen how the current situation will evolve and how the UN will be involved, or not.
Ideally it should be involved. Ideally, the Security Council (while it too isn’t the best set up in the UN, it is more multilateral than just one “even-handed peace broker”) should help govern peace talks. However, for the US, there are too many “national interests” at stake (economic ones – oil).
At the same time, discrepencies need to be addressed as well:
After the 1967 war, the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 242, which notes the “inadmissability of the acquisition of territory by force,” and calls for Israeli withdrawal from lands seized in the war and the right of all states in the area to peaceful existence within secure and recognized boundaries. The grammatical construction of the French version of Resolution 242 says Israel should withdraw from “the territories,” whereas the English version of the text calls for withdrawal from “territories.” (Both English and French are official languages of the UN.) Israel and the United States use the English version to argue that Israeli withdrawal from some, but not all, the territory occupied in the 1967 war satisfies the requirements of this resolution.
For many years the Palestinians rejected Resolution 242 because it does not acknowledge their right to national self-determination or to return to their homeland. It calls only for a just settlement of the refugee problem. By calling for recognition of every state in the area, Resolution 242 entailed unilateral Palestinian recognition of Israel without recognition of Palestinian national rights.
– Palestine, Israel and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, MERIP (Middle East Research and Information Project).
A brief background to the modern conflict
Towards the end of the 1800s as the Jewish people were facing more persecution and anti-Semitism in Europe, there were questions as to how the Jewish people can overcome this. The biblical Promised Land led to a political movement, Zionism, to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
From 1920 to 1947, the British Empire had a mandate over Palestine. At that time, Palestine included all of Israel and today’s Occupied Territories, of Gaza, West Bank, etc. The increasing number of Jewish people immigrating to the “Holy Land” increased tensions in the region.
European geopolitics in the earlier half of the 20th century in the wider Middle East region contributed to a lot of instability overall. The British Empire, especially, played a major role in the region.
During World War I, in 1916, it convinced Arab leaders to revolt against the Ottoman Empire (which was allied with Germany). In return, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state in the region, including Palestine.
Yet, in contradiction to this, and to also get support of Jewish people, in 1917, Lord Arthur Balfour, then British Foreign Minister, issued a declaration (the Balfour Declaration). This announced the British Empire’s support for the establishment of “a Jewish national home in Palestine.”
As a further complication, there was a deal between Imperial Britain and France to carve up the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire and divide control of the region. The spoils of war were to be shared. As in 1885 in the Berlin Conference where Africa was carved up amongst the various European empires, parts of the Middle East were to also be carved up, which would require artificial borders, support of monarchies, dictators and other leaders that could be regarded as “puppets” or at least could be influenced by these external powers.
After World War II, the newly formed United Nations (which then had less developing countries as members) recommended the partition of Palestine into two states and the internationalization of Jerusalem. The minority Jewish people received the majority of the land.
The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14 1948, but the Arab states rejected the partition of Palestine and the existence of Israel. The armies of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt attacked but were defeated by the Israeli army.
While the Jewish people were successful in creating their homeland, there was no Palestine and no internationalization of Jerusalem, either. In 1948 for example, Palestinians were driven out of the new Israel into refugee camps in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and other regions. At least 750,000 people are said to have been driven out (or ethnically cleansed, as some have described it). However, this aspect is not usually mentioned by mainstream media when recounting various historical events.
In 1956, Britain, France and Israel invaded the Sinai peninsula after Egypt nationalized the Suez canal due to fears of loss of a major economic trading route entry point for the West to the rest of the Middle East. While Egypt was defeated, international (US, really) pressure forced their withdrawal.
In 1967, Israel simultaneously attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan in a “pre-emptive strike” against the Arab troops along its borders. Israel captured key pieces of land, such as the strategic Golan Heights to the north on the border with Syria, to the West Bank from Jordan and the Gaza strip from Egypt. In fact, Israel more than doubled its size in the six days that this war took place. Since then, negotiations have been around returning land to pre-1967 states, as required by international law and UN resolutions.
In 1973, Egypt and Syria attacked Israel on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur to attempt to regain their lost land, but failed.
In 1978, the Camp David accords was signed between Israel, Egypt and the US, and Israel returned Sinai back to Egypt in return for peace between them. To many in the Arab world, Egypt had sold out to US pressure. To the US and Israel, this was a great achievement; Egypt was obviously not to be underestimated in its capabilities, so the best thing would be to ensure it is an ally, not an adversary.
In 1978, due to rising Hizbollah attacks from South Lebanon, where many Palestinian refugees still were, Israel attacked and invaded Lebanon. In 1982, Israel went as far up Lebanon as Beirut, as bloody exchanges followed between Israeli attempts to bomb Yasser Arafat’s PLO locations, and Hizbollah retaliations. In 1985, Israel declared a strip of South Lebanon to be a Security Zone (never recognized by the UN, and hence Israel was always occupying this other nation.) Many civilians were killed on both sides. Israeli forces were accused of massacres on many occasions. After 22 years, Israel withdrew in May 2000. One of the leading Israeli military personnel was Sharon.
In the late 1980s came the Palestinian uprising – the Intifada. While there was much of a non-violence movement initially, the mainstream media concentrated on the violence. Young Palestinians confronted Israeli troops with nothing more than sling shots and stones. Thousands were killed by the Israeli military. Many suicide activists killed Israeli soldiers and caused other damage. Many innocent civilians were killed on both sides.
1993 saw the Oslo Peace Accord, whereby Israel recognized the PLO and gave them limited autonomy in return for peace and an end to Palestinian claims on Israeli territory. This has been largely criticized as a one-sided accord, that benefits only Israel, not the Palestinian people. It resulted in Israeli control of land, water, roads and other resources.
In 1994, Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip and Jericho, ending twenty seven years of occupation. A Palestinian police force replaced them.
In 1995, then Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, who had been involved in the latest peace processes, was assassinated by a Jewish extremist.
In April 1996, Israeli forces bombed Lebanon for 17 days, with Hezbollah retaliating by firing upon populated areas of Northern Israel. Israel also shelled a UN shelter killing about 100 out of 800 civilians sheltering there. The UN claimed it was intentional.
October 1998 sees the Wye River Memorandum outlining some Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank but Israel suspends it in January 1999 due to internal disagreements on its implementation.
Further attempts through to the beginning of 2000 are made at continuing the Wye River accord, but keep breaking down due to Palestinian protests of continued new Israeli settlements.
Camp David summit in 2000 fails to come up with solutions on Jerusalem.
Ariel Sharon’s visit to the Mount Temple sparks of the current round of protests and violence.
In all this time then, the Palestinian people have been without any nation, and have had limited rights, while suffering from poverty at the same time. Israel continued to increase and expand their settlements giving up less and less land compared to what was promised. Many Palestinians (that are not Israeli Arabs since 1948) do not have the right to vote, or have limited rights, while paying full taxes. For over 3 decades, the Palestinian people have been living under a military occupation.
The Palestinian National Authority, which Arafat now heads with a police force armed by the Israelis has itself been criticized for not serving the full interests of the Palestinian people. The police have been harsh on cracking down on some Palestinians, to the extent that it has drawn criticisms from the likes of Amnesty International and others.
The frustration and injustice of the treatment of Palestinians has angered many citizens in the Arab world against US/Israeli policies. Palestinian frustration has spilled into extremism in some cases as well. Many militant groups from Palestine and other areas of the Middle East have therefore sprung up in recent years as well as past decades, performing acts of what the West and Israel describe as terrorism and what the groups themselves justify as freedom fighting (though achieving freedom through terrorist actions could arguably still be called terrorist organizations, despite claimed motives). Suicide bombings, and past acts of terrorism have terrorized Israeli civilians, making peace harder and harder to imagine, yet it has been easy to influence and recruit the young, impressionable and angry into extremist causes. As violence continues, it seems that it will remain easy to find recruits to violent causes.
U.S. involvement in the Middle East has also been seen as a critical issue. The U.S. and West’s interests in the region been due to oil. Strong military and financial support of Israel lends well to a powerful ally in the region. (For that reason as well, other Arab dictators and corrupt rulers have also been supported and even helped into power. Saddam Hussain is one of them. Dictators that can be bought provide a useful check against possible popular uprising in the region and therefore, for the US ensure their “security” – that is, their “national interests” are safeguarded and local puppets profit, while the people of the region end up suffering and losing out. (See the rest of the Middle East section on this site for more details on this.)
While the UN Security Council has attempted to pass numerous resolutions critical of Israel the United States has vetoed almost all of them. Nevertheless, there have been some resolutions demanding that Israel return land that was captured in the 1967 war etc (such as UN Resolution 242). The 1948 UN Resolution 181 allowed for both Jews and Arabs to live in Israel, which goes counter to claims of some groups that Israel should not exist. Often the international community is critical of Israeli inaction, but the US veto prevents anything coming of it. Instead, Israeli land expansion and settlements have continued. The US has also provided Israel with enormous military aid, to the extent that in the Middle East, Israel has the most advanced and superior military. Their high tech/military industries are also very advanced. Israel also has nuclear weapons capabilities.
“For ordinary Palestinians, self-rule has been a humiliating disaster. Seven years after Oslo, they are still living under occupation. The basic means of a decent human existence, which acknowledges their distinctive culture, history and suffering, is denied to them. When not completely withheld, their basic rights and entitlements are represented as concessions generously granted by their overlords. Meanwhile their leaders, frightened of losing their elite privileges and affluent lifestyles, collude with Israel in their betrayal.” – This peace offer is an insult to Palestinians, by Scott Burchill, The Australian (daily newspaper of Australia), October 12, 2000
An additional source of frustration for the Palestinian people is that the land that is being settled by Israelis are usually prime land, and hence the various peace negotiations usually leave Palestine with the less usable land. Israel also thereby controls water sources. The non-contiguous land (Gaza and West Bank) and the Israeli control over Palestinian movement also means disconnection. This allows the possibility of providing cheap labor to Israel, so it is in their economic interest to pursue this type of division.
The mainstream western media has traditionally capitalized on negative imagery and propaganda against Islam and the Arab world as a sort of way to also justify continued presence and involvement there.
Links to more information
This part provides links to many other web sites and resources for more in-depth information. Sources include web site and commentators that are critical of the mainstream, of the US, Israeli and Palestinian leaderships. Many include Jewish commentators, that provide an interesting perspective on the issues as they strongly object to the actions of the Israeli leaders. Palestinian perspectives are also provided. See the resources.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
Mercenary I have just one question, when did the UN form Israel? Really I would love to know which resolution you are quoting from.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
Palestinians, Arabs, Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians all voted for “Yes to Israel” in some democratic process held in your house?
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
For every tragic incident that happens in Palestine (mercenery2k's beloved Israel), justifiably or unjustifiably, the other side gives another incident against them as a cause. It's like a dog chasing its tail, that is, a never ending loop.
So let's see who started the conflict in the first place.
Michael Neumann is a Jewish writer, born in Germany, and currently living in Canada. He wrote a book recently titled "The Case Against Israel". It's on Amazon too. One of the reviewers of this book on Amazon, gives this summary of logical argument used by Neumann against Zionism and Israel:
1) Zionism meant the establishment of a Jewish controlled state in the territory known as Palestine
2) There was already a large non-Jewish people living in this territory
3) Therefore, logically, for there to be an Israel, the majority of the inhabitants of the land had to be removed by force.
4) Thus, conflict was a necessary outcome of the Israel project.
I want to see the opposite point of view. So I would like to see Zionist-mercenery2k's comments on this argument.
Neumann says:
"The central fact of the conflict is that Zionists sought sovereignty in Palestine. From this, all else follows: the Arab response and all that came after."
"Israel is the illegitimate child of ethnic nationalism."
I have read nothing but good reviews about the logic Neumann uses to prove his point.
جو ظلم پہ لعنت نہ کرے آپ لعیں ہے
جو جبر کا منکر نہیںوہ منکرِدیںہے
jo zulm pe laanat na karay aap la'een he
jo jabr ka munkir nahin wo munkir e deen he
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
What are you going on about that pakistan wasn’t created on the basis of religion?
Do you know about the two nation theory, muslim league, partition along religous lines, direct action day agitations, Jinnah, Sir Syed, Iqbal and countless other aspects of history, or do you like to create your own version of history like your own sufi version of islam? Is there anyway to justify saying that pakistan was created along religous lines? Its just preposterous.
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
oho bhaiyo, his idol is Maulana Azad who opposed Pakistan, didn’t he?
Re: Israel and Pakistan: Natural Allies
I had posted a long reply here. But I think it will take us in another direction. I would rather have this Zionist explain my last post.