The US is supporting Israel but its actions are also helping with the rise of Islamism for example the US is indirectly supplying weapons to the Syrian rebels many which are Islamists and ironically Al-Qaeda. I imagine they are doing this to destabilize the country so it does not pose a threat to Israel, they managed to destabilize Iraq and it seems that Iran is next.
So where is the hope of any Muslim regimes gaining any strength to pose a challenge to Israel, is it just a case of waiting for God to perform a miracle that things will change.
I understand the Muslim brotherhood are taking control of the matter in Israel but surely the US won't just sit back and allow it to gain significant power to threaten Israel. As it stands the Palestinians will continue to be dominated by the Israelis and will that will likely continue well into the next couple of decades. Something needs to change as this strategy clearly isn't working, or is it?
We as muslims believe in miracles; and what happened in egypt, tunisia was nothing short of one. God is much powerful than the US; and we believe HE is moving the chess piece now and is in control of the board. Things have never looked more promising than before for the palestinians; and thats why israel is losing it. It will get worse before it gets better, but get better it will.
We as muslims believe in miracles; and what happened in egypt, tunisia was nothing short of one. God is much powerful than the US; and we believe HE is moving the chess piece now and is in control of the board. Things have never looked more promising than before for the palestinians; and thats why israel is losing it. It will get worse before it gets better, but get better it will.
And herein lies the entire problem with the Muslim Ummah. Putting all stakes on miracles from God while sitting idle and twiddling your thumbs. News alert for you: God was and always will be in control. He hasn't only started taking control now which makes one wonder if God is the mastermind, why are Muslims suffering in Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Pakistan? Could it be that God is fed up of us Muslims pointing fingers at others and refusing to take charge??
Things have never looked more promising for the Palestinians? Log on to the IDF website where you get a free show of how precise their bomb attacks are in Gaza. Enjoy and then update us on the positive outlook of the Palestinians.
Anything can happen I agree with that, the Arab countries may or many not unite, the US may or may not collapse thus isolating Israel. We simply do not know about that, it is just wishful thinking to assume something will happen in favour to the Palestinians rather something needs to be made to happen. I agree that the the blind support of the US to Israel is wrong, but does that mean things should just carry on as it has? Does that not just prolong the suffering of the Palestinians?
Arshad is it just the compassion you have for the Palestinians that you hope something will happen or are there any actual events which make you think so.
In my opinion the US has managed to destroy most of their enemies or at the least put them back to a stage where they will not pose any threat to them or a long while. Like I said Iraq which was a regional power has been put on its knees, Libya too they will take years and years to build up their country and then maybe one day pose the same threat they once did. Assad days are numbered and it seems clear something is in the pipeline for Iran too. This isn't my support for the US but rather are facts whic are there for all to see. The Muslim brotherhood has come to power in Egypt but we will see what happens there but I highly doubt the US will allow them to become a large threat to the Zionists particularly as you have said the US supports Israel in all ways.
Well so long as US is a superpower and the Zionists control the US the muslims cannot make anything happen.
The power potential of the muslims is great, and starting from a low point they can only grow in strength in the long term. The US and its allies being mature economies and countries will lose their power and influence but to what extent and how quick is debatable.
If Palestine achieves independence good but if it does not then the Palestinians have a right to take part in the democratic process in Israel. Two states solution is good but one state solution is also good. In the long run muslims are in a win win situation however you look at it. That is why perhaps the muslim countries are targeted so much, due to the fear of the west and knowledge of their power potential. That is why perhaps that this bogey of terrorism has been invented, to target the muslims.
And herein lies the entire problem with the Muslim Ummah. Putting all stakes on miracles from God while sitting idle and twiddling your thumbs. News alert for you: God was and always will be in control. He hasn't only started taking control now which makes one wonder if God is the mastermind, why are Muslims suffering in Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Pakistan? Could it be that God is fed up of us Muslims pointing fingers at others and refusing to take charge??
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Are you telling me the revolutions in egypt and tunisia etc came about whilst their people sat around all day twiddling their thumbs? What an insulting notion!
People risked their lives; and at the end of the day it happened because there is a God. Do you lack that much faith to negate this was any of his doing?? Really? Then allow me to say that in fact herein lies the real problem.
[quote]
Things have never looked more promising for the Palestinians? Log on to the IDF website where you get a free show of how precise their bomb attacks are in Gaza. Enjoy and then update us on the positive outlook of the Palestinians.
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Oh really. Thanks for the kind information. fyi ive been well aware of these issues since i became politically involved some yonks ago.. But thanks for getting on your soapbox and stereotyping all muslims in one go. Please dont let the facts get in the way of your speech will you.
As for palestine; they are overall in a stronger position today and not least because of the widespread support and awareness they have worldwide, thanks to alternative media and activists. Egypt is a life line at the moment.
They have UN general assembly on side as well as prominent figures: even mainstream jews in america (bar the lobby) are finding it hard to relate to what as has become of israel. As the world is waking up to the apartheid, the narrative is slowly but surely changing.. in favour of palestine.
As the awareness around palestine is growing; the noose around israel is tightening. And any time soon; she will face her reckoning. Every dog has its day and she has just about had hers. And thats where faith in God comes in!
Not just in palestine, but the world over; changes are taking place over the past few years; mostly for the better. And this is no different.
Just sitting back and waiting for God to do something seems extremely naieve. God was there when the Jews took control of Palestine and expelled them, God was there when the Jews were gassed in the chambers. Bringing God into it ends all discussion really and also takes aways ones reponsibility, maybe we should leave God out of it as that debate belongs in the religion section.
Dont be daft. Read my post again. It says nothing about doing nothing. Theres a saying in islam; first tie up your camel and then rely on God. And Thats what ive been saying. God is always in the picture!
Are you telling me the revolutions in egypt and tunisia etc came about whilst their people sat around all day twiddling their thumbs? What an insulting notion!
People risked their lives; and at the end of the day it happened because there is a God. Do you lack that much faith to negate this was any of his doing?? Really? Then allow me to say that in fact herein lies the real problem.
Umm I never said God was not in control. God has always been in control of this world. It was YOU who stated that "He is moving the chess piece NOW". So please stop twisting my words. You also conveniently ignored the suffering of Muslims around the world, most of which is being carried out by our own fellow Muslims. What happened in Eqypt and Tunisia wasn't a miracle...it was young people finally waking up and trying to take charge of their life. Things are still chaotic there and it remains to be seen how successful these nations will be in uniting their people.
Oh really. Thanks for the kind information. fyi ive been well aware of these issues since i became politically involved some yonks ago.. But thanks for getting on your soapbox and stereotyping all muslims in one go. Please dont let the facts get in the way of your speech will you.
As for palestine; they are overall in a stronger position today and not least because of the widespread support and awareness they have worldwide, thanks to alternative media and activists. Egypt is a life line at the moment.
They have UN general assembly on side as well as prominent figures: even mainstream jews in america (bar the lobby) are finding it hard to relate to what as has become of israel. As the world is waking up to the apartheid, the narrative is slowly but surely changing.. in favour of palestine.
As the awareness around palestine is growing; the noose around israel is tightening. And any time soon; she will face her reckoning. Every dog has its day and she has just about had hers. And thats where faith in God comes in!
Not just in palestine, but the world over; changes are taking place over the past few years; mostly for the better. And this is no different.
No need to thank me. But the fact that you said things were looking promising for Palestinians made me laugh out loud. How on earth are Palestinians in a stronger position today?! Alternative media and activists?? Since when did alternative media and activists change the shape of the Israel-Palestinian conflict or most conflicts for that matter?! Also the fact that you brought up the UN shows how out of touch you are. The UN is a puppet...they have passed countless resolutions against Israel only to be vetoed by the US. Mainstream Jews were never the problem. It was and always will be the Zionists that are in control of how the US interacts with Israel. Stop living in a fool's paradise. For the sake of justice, I wish things were getting better for the Palestinians but they are not. I don't see how infants dying by Israeli grenades is considered positive. As long as the Palestinians are shunned by the entire Muslim world, they have no hope of revival. Sitting on an online forum and stating how things look positive for the Palestinians won't make it true. Please stop hoping for miracles. Maybe start hoping for Muslim leaders to come out of their harems and start paying attention to the plight of their brothers all over the world?
Dont be daft. Read my post again. It says nothing about doing nothing. Theres a saying in islam; first tie up your camel and then rely on God. And Thats what ive been saying. God is always in the picture!
So how exactly have the Muslims tied up their camel? By borrowing a rope from the US?
Why does every thread about the wrongs of the US or Israel eventually become muslim bashing. Its like a woman gets raped and instead of punishing the rapist we have people saying that the woman is to blame for being out so late, being out alone, being drunk, wearing provocative clothing. People stop making excuses for Israel and the US.
^ Maybe you haven't heard of the saying "Fix the problems in your own house before pointing fingers at others" coz you see if you point fingers at others while your house is burning to the ground, no one takes you seriously. Rather, you make a mockery of yourself. Nothing good will ever come out of giving disapproving looks to Israel and the US while sipping chai in your living room.
Isn't that the same as saying to a women that she should not go out wearing a mini skirt and a revealing top, as she will be to blame if a man tries to rape here. That she should "fix" herself first, and she is to blame for the actions of the man who cannot control his urges, and wants his way at any cost.
You people claim to be western but your mentality still continues to be eastern. You have still to understand our western way of life. You fail to understand the concept of fair play and justice. You fail to understand what fairness, equality, respect and freedom mean.
I guess people like you if you were living in Germany during Hitlers rule, then you would be making excuses for Hitler, or if you were living under the Ottomans then you would be making excuses for them.
/\ i agree. Its like these folks will look for every excuse in the sun to blame everyone else but the culprit; esp. if the culprit is the west/israel. It not only defies logic; but exposes their mentality.
?? Probably because this thread is on israel as oppose to the rest of the world?
Really; you try too hard to divert attention from the israelis. What is the agenda here??
Well i guess thats the difference in the mindset. People tend to leave God out of the picture.
Yes. Anyone who can recall Palestine’s political situation a few years back during or before operation cast lead; will notice that they are in a much a stronger position today.
For several reasons; but the main ones being Gaza was isolated and faced hostility from all sides; not just from its arab neighbours; but from fatah who rules west bank; aswell as the international community, they all more or less ignored gaza. This was simply because of their hostility to Hamas and overall bias/ignorance/indifference in the western.
But All that has changed since then, from fatah hamas unity, to egypt opening their borders for aid; for arabs iranian and turkey being proactive in this matter from the word GO, i think israel will be reigned in or face the consequences.. It does not have a freehand this time around. And thats why i believe its in a stronger position.
Not really. No. The general assembly is pro palestine, thats why as you mentioned they pass the majority of resolutions in favour of palestine; including the unesco membership vote; even though the US tried to pressure and blackmail countries into a no or abstain vote but it didnt work! So they are not the puppet that you seem to imply they are, despite how much in touch you claim to be.
The observer state membership vote is coming up and the US and israel are bricking it simply because it wont be going through the UNSC, but the GA. and they know it will pass. That is why they are threatening abbas with all sorts if he goes to the UN, because once they get upgraded, apart from recognition of an actual state and other benefit; they can actually use the ICC against Israel.. Something israel is really worried about.
Its the UNSC that vetoes and they are as you might know are majority pro israel! But not everything goes through them.
you mean sit there and twiddle our thumbs while we wait for our ‘muslims leaders’ to get it together? Lol. There are no muslim leaders and there is no muslim ummah either. So if your going to wait for one to come about before you decide to do anything; then you’re on a hopeless slope to begin with!
Isn't that the same as saying to a women that she should not go out wearing a mini skirt and a revealing top, as she will be to blame if a man tries to rape here. That she should "fix" herself first, and she is to blame for the actions of the man who cannot control his urges, and wants his way at any cost.
You people claim to be western but your mentality still continues to be eastern. You have still to understand our western way of life. You fail to understand the concept of fair play and justice. You fail to understand what fairness, equality, respect and freedom mean.
I guess people like you if you were living in Germany during Hitlers rule, then you would be making excuses for Hitler, or if you were living under the Ottomans then you would be making excuses for them.
I don't know why you keep bringing up rape as an analogy. Yet again, it makes no sense. Wearing a mini skirt and a revealing top isn't a problem. It's her free will to dress however she wants so there is nothing to fix. A problem is corruption, sheer laziness, lack of discipline, lack of unity, lack of education. Rape is a crime and you can't compare it to the world of politics where every nation is out to serve its own interests. Further, a rapist is convicted. Countries like the US and Israel will never be convicted in a court of law...so you can't just sit back hoping for miracles to happen and hoping the rest of the world will take notice and take some action on your behalf.
I'm sorry I don't understand your 'vestern' way of life. I didn't know a western way of life equated to fair play and justice. Fairness, equality, respect and freedom have absolutely nothing to do with being vestern. That is such a gross generalization and an insult to those eastern nations who have managed to adhere to these principles. Further it is also giving undue credit to the Western countries who have violated these principles time and again.
Again, you can stoop low as usual and insult me by saying you're doing better than me and I would support Hitler and all that jazz, but the truth of the matter is you have no idea who I am or who I would support so all these blanket statements hold no meaning whatsoever.
Yes of course. Just because we have the audacity to question the actions of Muslims across the world, we are atheists who might as well stop calling ourselves Muslims.
You keep believing that. The world has turned against the Israel since 2008 yet nothing has come of it. Because nobody WANTS to get involved. Like you, they condemn Israel, express disgust at their barbaric military actions, then go back to their own affairs. The situation will NOT change unless and until someone takes a stand against the Israelis and as long as AIPAC is alive in the US, that’s not going to happen. Nobody wants to get sanctions imposed by the World Bank or IMF so countries stay out of it. China definitely could care less about the plight of Palestinians. True, the world might have started resenting Israel and seeing them for what they are but they are not going to jeopardize their position by speaking for a group of people that is of no use to them. So their only hope is the Muslim leaders who honestly do owe the Palestinians a voice.
LOL the UNSC IS the most powerful branch of the UN. Everything else is just a joke. But even then, the entire UN has no clout. They often speak in favor of the underprivileged only to be shunned by the US and Israel. If you are basing your positive outlook on the growing support of Palestine in the UN, you’re in for a big disappointment.
At least that’s better than sitting and twiddling your thumbs while waiting for the US to fall down so that Israel is finally all alone in defending itself.
I honestly don’t know why it’s considered anti-Muslim to question the lack of motivation, unity, and education amongst Muslims and critique their complacent lifestyle. Why does one have to be a self hating Muslim if they wonder why the Muslims aren’t playing a more active role in alleviating their suffering!? No one ever denied the atrocities committed by Israel and the blind support given to Israel by the US, but that doesn’t mean we keep going haw hai at the culprits and refuse to take responsibility for our own actions.
Anyways I am done with debating this issue. I am sure we all have more important things to do with our time.
I don't know why you keep bringing up rape as an analogy. Yet again, it makes no sense. Wearing a mini skirt and a revealing top isn't a problem. It's her free will to dress however she wants so there is nothing to fix. A problem is corruption, sheer laziness, lack of discipline, lack of unity, lack of education. Rape is a crime and you can't compare it to the world of politics where every nation is out to serve its own interests. Further, a rapist is convicted. Countries like the US and Israel will never be convicted in a court of law...so you can't just sit back hoping for miracles to happen and hoping the rest of the world will take notice and take some action on your behalf.
I'm sorry I don't understand your 'vestern' way of life. I didn't know a western way of life equated to fair play and justice. Fairness, equality, respect and freedom have absolutely nothing to do with being vestern. That is such a gross generalization and an insult to those eastern nations who have managed to adhere to these principles. Further it is also giving undue credit to the Western countries who have violated these principles time and again.
Again, you can stoop low as usual and insult me by saying you're doing better than me and I would support Hitler and all that jazz, but the truth of the matter is you have no idea who I am or who I would support so all these blanket statements hold no meaning whatsoever.
You agree that it is her free will to dress as she pleases, nations also have a free will to manage their own affairs without any interference from us. What muslim countries do or do not does not make it ok for Israel and US to commit crimes.
Well now you know about our Western values. If our government adhere to them only home but not abroad then I will hold them responsible. Whether or not they are held to account in a court of law or not they can at least be held to account by the public.
Sorry but I don't think that I am stooping low in this case. I am just stating the facts as I see them. Hitler was a populist leader in his time and enjoyed a lot of support among the masses.
Why does every thread about the wrongs of the US or Israel eventually become muslim bashing.
The problem is that many people take any criticism as being a racial or ethnic attack. It does not make us anti-Semetic or anti-American if we criticize American or Jewish policy just as if we criticize Arab or Muslim policy we are not automatically being Islamophobic.
Yes the Americans and the Israelis have their faults and those faults are constantly highlighted on this forum but that does mean we cannot discuss the blame the Arab countries share in this matter.
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Its like a woman gets raped and instead of punishing the rapist we have people saying that the woman is to blame for being out so late, being out alone, being drunk, wearing provocative clothing. People stop making excuses for Israel and the US
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Your analogy is incorrect, we are not blaming the girls, but we are blaming the supposed men who stand around watching what happens and do nothing but wisper simple protests.
The problem is that many people take any criticism as being a racial or ethnic attack. It does not make us anti-Semetic or anti-American if we criticize American or Jewish policy just as if we criticize Arab or Muslim policy we are not automatically being Islamophobic.
Yes the Americans and the Israelis have their faults and those faults are constantly highlighted on this forum but that does mean we cannot discuss the blame the Arab countries share in this matter.
Your analogy is incorrect, we are not blaming the girls, but we are blaming the supposed men who stand around watching what happens and do nothing but wisper simple protests.
I think your analogy is incorrect. To suggest that a man is doing something wrong and many men are watching and let it happen is incorrect. In our case this one man is more powerful than the many men that are watching. If you want to use this analogy then we would have to say that this one man has a gun and the rest are unarmed. The unarmed men are also frightened of the man with the gun and are threatened that they will be shot if they do anything. This one man also has a gang who he can call upon at any time. A normal person would say that the person responsible is the man that is actually commiting a crime and not the spectators.
You are free to criticise muslims and Islam, however to attempt to portray them as being responsible for the crimes committed by Israel and the US is wrong. You blame muslims because they are not attacking the US and Israel who you accept as the culprits. However if they were fighting against the US like the Afghans then you would still demonise them under a different pretext.
Let me ask you do to accept the Taleban as freedom fighters against the US occupiers? Do you support them? Do you agree that they should continue with their struggle until their country is liberated? Here are muslims doing what you suggest so it shouldn't be that hard.
OK Arshad lets accept your analogy, so what you are saying is that the Muslim world has no power and cannot do anything. So where does that leave the Palestinian people. Are they continue to suffer until the Americans and Israelis decide to stop, until the bully gets bored and gets all he wants?
Maybe Arshad you can answer my question on this topic???