Islamically can you join a national army...

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Islamically can you join a national army…

Yes brother you have answered your own question. However, we can still say … That flana flana Pakistan ka, ya flani flani Iraq ki, etc.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Hareem...
On what basis are you denouncing Jihad...Jihad is fighting...dont give me that Jihad of Nafs business...thats a copout and is spread by people wanting to make Islam look peaceful...
Fact is we did what any other empire did...we defended our borders(Jihad) and we spread and took over other nations ever by negotiation or by military means(Jihad)...Offensive Jihad can only be carried out by an Islamic state so isnt applicable right now whilst defensive Jihad very much is...
Jihad is fighting in the way of Allah dont sugarcoat it...

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Sis, you are not getting my point. Nationalism does not disappear but provides a higher calling to fight for the preservation of the faith and not geography but think about it, you need a place to practice your faith so both things are implicit and together in a nationalistic struggle for Islam. You cannot denounce nationalism as un-Islamic because you have to exist as a nation in the end whether the nation stands for a piece of land or principles or whatever ideals the state is formed after.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

JazakAllah Khair for your good replies. The answer to the question you asked me is ... that I am not qualified to answer it. I would only have thought that whatever the army does to defend their own country is a requirement, but if they need to allow another Islamic nation to be attacked in the process, then I'm not so sure. Mufti's where are they?

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Sister, tell me anything that Pakistan state law stops you from following Islam? Talk about what is your duty and responsibility.

As for Shariah, there is very little in Shariah that is uncontroversial. A lot in Shariah is what People interpreted or developed over the years. Those that are not controversial in Shariah (accepted by all Muslims), all are followed in Pakistan officially.

Controversial are those that one group of Muslim may interpret different from other group.

Nevertheless, controversial or not controversial, for individuals, they can follow all in Pakistan what they consider it to be part of Shariah (as long as they do not interfere with life of others).

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...


So if an American Musilm soldier fighting in Iraq who is a strong believer and follower of the faith can die Shaheed?

So if jihad is not holy war, what is it? A war sanctioned by God because one side is Muslim?

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

'Qatl fi sabeelillah' is what you are referring to which is the phrase used in the Qur'an. Jihad actually means struggle. Plenty of hadith to back this up too. Thanks. And the 'copout' phrase is out-of-order. The people of the likes of very learned Muslims use this understanding. There is a need for hikmah in this day and age. And we as Muslims have lost our chance to maintain offensive Jihad, because the media trends have sided with the unIslamic.

To put into context ... Muslims are supposed to be the most peace loving people in the world. Fighting, bloodshed and violence should be the least desired by us before any other people. That is why it is considered a jihad, because we have to struggle with our passive natures to fight. It is not something that should come naturally to a Muslim.

Peace

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Three questions .... Three answers.
If Allah Wills.... Struggle...... No.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Naughty by Nature: Well, there is no such thing as offensive Jihad.

If there was offensive Jihad then it means that Prophet (SAW) whenever spent a day in Medina without fighting Kafirs, he was disobeying Allah and was not fulfilling his duty of offensive Jihad. Because if offensive Jihad was part of Islam, Prophet (SAW) could not have spent a single day without fighting one group of people or other, as there were many lands full of Kafirs throughout the world, and still Prophet (SAW) was in Medina without taking part in offensive Jihad.

Historically, Prophet (SAW) throughout life spent very few days fighting with Kuffars militarily. Rather, what I know, all war (Ghazwa) Prophet (SAW) took part, none were offensive Jihad.

Do you think that Prophet (SAW) did not knew Islam or if he knew, were not following Islam, or that you know Islam more then Prophet (SAW)?

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

:) In that case UK is an Islamic country, more so than even Pakistan. At least it replaces the people who have disappeared.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

What Naughty by Nature meant I think is pre-emptive jihad. Which does have a basis, but that basis, like I explained does not take into consideration the current height of the political arena.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Seems that you have not read what I wrote :). For a country to be Islamic, the head of state should claim to be Muslim. It is because, the head of state is the person that Allah has made head (Ameer) over the people and it is duty of people to obey the Ameer (Head of state).

As for UK, one person cannot even bury their dead according to Islamic ritual (they are buried in mostly box) plus all grave lands are under 99 year lease. Second is that in UK, Muslim inheritance law does not apply (that what is responsibility of state to get it implemented). UK does not recognise more then one marriage at one time, as all other marriage would be either common law wife status or illegal. Well, there are many things in UK, that one is stopped by state to follow that is to do with personal law of Islam.

Even there is no mosque in UK, all are prayer places, as Mosque could not have an owner and it should be on waqf land, but in UK, all praying places that people call Mosque, have owner (be that community, society or individual)

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Well, there is no such thing as pre-emotive Jihad. Even when Muslims attacked Kuffar, there were reasons of conflicts going back before that attack.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

oh ok

Bewafa
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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Sa1eem...
The reason you are Muslim today is cos of offensive Jihad...Islam like any ideology is there to be spread...and people were given two choices...accept paying jizya(tax) and let us rule you or we"ll take over by force...somtimes states were taken over by negotiation and sometimes by force...
This however is not an option right now as we have no Islamic state and therefore no Islam to propogate...

Also in terms of head of state being Muslim i would assume what he implemeted to be the issue...if hes not implementing Islam then it isnt an Islamic state...

Hareem...
Throughout the ages Jihad has always been judged in a military manner its just scholars who want to appease their masters who sugarcoat Islam and make Jihad a personal issue and not a military one...can you quote any of the four scholars who referred to Jihad ul Nafs?...

And if you dont judge it in a military manner then for what purpose did we go to war...a lot of times it was to protect our own borders nd many times it wasnt...India as an example was a battle fought which had nothing to do with protecting ones borders...

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

Please read my posts carefully ... I mean very carefully ... I am not disagreeing with you, completely.

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

** Naughty by Nature:** You are insisting on Offensive Jihad and you are not answering that if you know Islam more then Prophet (SAW) or not?

If Offensive Jihad is order of Allah, please tell me that did Prophet (SAW) also knew that it was his duty as head of first Islamic state ‘Madina’ to keep doing offensive Jihad and fighting Kuffars until world is clean of all Kafirs?

If Prophet (SAW) knew that, how come he spent most of his time in Madina without doing offensive Jihad? Does it mean according to you that he was disobeying Allah (ST)?

Obviously, if offensive Jihad was order of Allah, then Prophet (SAW) as first head of Muslim state and also messenger of Allah, should have kept fighting kuffars until there is no Kafir lands, right?

Please tell me, what you believe about such head of state as Prophet (SAW), that even though he was Prophet of Allah, he spent most of his time doing sin (According to you) by not doing offensive jihad, fighting and killing others, occupying land and offering three choices, death, Jazyea or Islam to Kafirs?

Do you consider Prophet (SAW) as Prophet of Allah or not? As according to you, since Prophet (SAW) did not do offensive Jihad, he must be misguided, right?

Obviously, there were many lands full of Kafirs when Prophet (SAW) was head of first Muslim state of ‘Madina’. He was head of that state for around 10 years. Don’t you think that it was his duty to obey Allah and keep fighting throughout that 10 years against kuffars, every day of those years, so that either all lands become Muslim land or he dies fighting, right?

Was it not unfortunate that first Muslim head of state, spent most of his time sitting in Medina peacefully, at times even making negotiating and treaties with Kafirs? How sad? Right?

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

To save time I'm only giving one example this should be enough for you inshaAllah.

Sahih Bukhari *Volume 4, Book 52, Number 43: *

Narrated 'Aisha:
(That she said), "O Allah's Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed. Should we not fight in Allah's Cause?" He said, "The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj-Mabrur (i.e. Hajj which is done according to the Prophet's tradition and is accepted by Allah)."

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army…

Sa1eem…
The state has to be capable of defending its borders before it can expand and that explains the many battles that did take place during the Prophets tenure…once the state was secure the Deen was spread…he hardly sat around doing nothing did he…Muslims were constantly in battle and once secure they stopped being defensive and went on the offensive…
Heres a list of battles…many of which were offensive and not defensive…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_in_the_Muslim_world

Hareem…
Im not suggesting the word doesnt have other connotations…im simply stating that scholars come and use these other connotations to claim that jihad in a military form doesnt exist…so they tell people Jihad is only Jihad ul Nafs and the military aspect is an innovation by extremists blah blah…scholars discount military jihad in order to appease whoevers paying them…

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Re: Islamically can you join a national army...

**Naughty by Nature: **Please answer what I asked. You are just jumping from here to there and not answering what I asked. I have not asked anything complicated. It would help if you answer what I asked, thanks.