Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
' in order to defend them'? That is a different issue. Muslims can and should defend anyone who is oppressed, but Muslims should be united not to be defendable, rather because that is what Islam requires of us.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
But the main Khalifa was same for all the countries. There were no borders with visa requirements.
Right, a Khalifa though has rarely ever had rule over the vast territory solely based on his native army. Far off lands are always ruled through treaties and political representatives. Even if we call it an empire such as the Ottomon empire, it never directly ruled over the territories that were included in the empire. The same culture in one corner of the empire is not common to all parts of the empire. The more far stretched a territory becomes the more hurdles come in treating as one piece of land. It automatically develops its own identity, if not named then, north, south, east and west. As long as your nationalism does not hinder the preservation of the higher cause to which you have allegience I see it as nothing wrong. If the muslim countries of today do not have armies with their nationalistic interest they would be ruled by some one else as the muslims in India.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
yes, of course.
So if India attacks Pakistan who is going to defend Pakistan and its muslims, if they stop enlisting in the army thinking that this is nationalistic and not Islamic.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Would Pak army defend Muslim Ummah?
chicken or the egg...
Hareem01, I am sorry to say this but is there a "Muslim Ummah" today in any sense of the word? There has to be a "Muslim Ummah" before you can defend it.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
So if India attacks Pakistan who is going to defend Pakistan and its muslims, if they stop enlisting in the army thinking that this is nationalistic and not Islamic.
Who saved East Pakistan from being Bangladesh in 1971?
Nationalism=divide and conquer
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
chicken or the egg...
Hareem01, I am sorry to say this but is there a "Muslim Ummah" today in any sense of the word? There has to be a "Muslim Ummah" before you can defend it.
Chicken.
Yes, there is a muslim Ummah.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Well, if you are just a muslim and not a nationalist muslim then there should not be any conflicts based on race, colour or sects.
sorry race, ethnicity and sect has little to do with nationalism.
lets not mix these all up together.
teh correct statement woukd have been, if you are just a muslim and not a sectarian muslim, or a ethnocentric muslim, or a racist muslim, then there should not be any conflicts based on race, ethnicity or sects.
again, more disputes, fights and tension based on race, ethnicity and sect than nationality aming muslims.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
sorry race, ethnicity and sect has little to do with nationalism.
lets not mix these all up together.
teh correct statement woukd have been, if you are just a muslim and not a sectarian muslim, or a ethnocentric muslim, or a racist muslim, then there should not be any conflicts based on race, ethnicity or sects.
again, more disputes, fights and tension based on race, ethnicity and sect than nationality aming muslims.
But in Islam there is no place for racism, sectarianism,nationalism, patriotism and ethnocentarism.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Chicken.
Yes, there is a muslim Ummah.
Please describe it...
Re: Islamically can you join a national army…
What? about chicken or about Ummah?:fifa:
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................there is an Ummah. A whole Ummah.
An Ummah like a headless chicken.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Who saved East Pakistan from being Bangladesh in 1971?
Nationalism=divide and conquer
Sr., this example is an oxymoron. Bengali's defended it to what end, a new nation called Bangladesh. A new nation was born out of the muslim population of East Pakistan. This is example serves contrary to your point.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................there is an Ummah. A whole Ummah. An Ummah like a headless chicken.
Hareem, until muslims are self-sufficient there will be different muslim nations in the world. It is easy to say we are one ummah but to live it is another challenge.
And Inshallah! when the day comes when we are one ummah and we defend the Islamic territory of muslims, that would still be nationalism with the color of religion. The ideal of the state that people live for is what forms the foundation of nationalism.
At present we are different nations. Once we unite we are single nation of muslims or ummah but we would still be nationalist for the interest of Islam in the state we live in.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................there is an Ummah. A whole Ummah.
An Ummah like a headless chicken.
Then I think you agree with me :) The body cannot live without the mind... it is like saying there is no "Ummah".
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Hareem, until muslims are self-sufficient there will be different muslim nations in the world. It is easy to say we are one ummah but to live it is another challenge.
And Inshallah! when the day comes when we are one ummah and we defend the Islamic territory of muslims, that would still be nationalism with the color of religion. The ideal of the state that people live for is what forms the foundation of nationalism.
At present we are different nations. Once we unite we are single nation of muslims or ummah but we would still be nationalist for the interest of Islam in the state we live in.
yeah but don't forget you're still missing the head :)
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Nationalism as a value states that your bond is based on your nationality not your faith...it is due to nationalism that Pakistan allowed its airspace to be used against their fellow Muslim Afghans...it was to protect their nation...
Nationality has nothing to do with Islam whatsoever...Nationalism is what divideds us from other nations that have Muslims in...
Fact is there is no such thing as a Muslim country so is it actually halal to represent an army that carries an incorrect value system...
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Hareem, until muslims are self-sufficient there will be different muslim nations in the world. It is easy to say we are one ummah but to live it is another challenge.
And Inshallah! when the day comes when we are one ummah and we defend the Islamic territory of muslims, that would still be nationalism with the color of religion. The ideal of the state that people live for is what forms the foundation of nationalism.
At present we are different nations. Once we unite we are single nation of muslims or ummah but we would still be nationalist for the interest of Islam in the state we live in.
I disagree brother. Nationalists will be nationalists.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
But in Islam there is no place for racism, sectarianism,nationalism, patriotism and ethnocentarism.
nope thre is not, but they are not all one and the same. and nationalism has its issues, but bigger issues are faced due to the other three, ethnocentrism, racism and sectarianism. whether or not on is a nationalist has no bearing on the other factors.
Re: Islamically can you join a national army...
Nationalism as a value states that your bond is based on your nationality not your faith...it is due to nationalism that Pakistan allowed its airspace to be used against their fellow Muslim Afghans...it was to protect their nation... Nationality has nothing to do with Islam whatsoever...Nationalism is what divideds us from other nations that have Muslims in... Fact is there is no such thing as a Muslim country so is it actually halal to represent an army that carries an incorrect value system...
Yes, you're right there is no muslim country, but it doesn't mean that we should make haraam things halaal for ourselves.
