Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
And why do Muslims utterly fail to meet this obligation?
Remember we are talking about "practice" of Muslims, and not some "theoretical" (read mythical) Muslim.
Muslims countries endowed with enormous human capital (Pakistan, BDesh, Indonesia) or the Muslim countries blessed with enormous natural resources all have miserably and utterly failed to be "anti Jahliyah".
Why you may ask? they simply don't want to gain knowledge, as they have become "summun bukmun".
And yet instead of waking them up against the Orthodoxy [read Jahliyya], our Islamists push them further into the depths of ignorance.
So key words here are "Practice" vs. "theory", OR
"reality" vs. "platitude".
"Action" vs. "Talk and talk and talk and talk".
Madamouiselle! Learn the latest (modern, contemporary) and decorate your drawing room with the oldest aka antique, dada jaan kay zamaanay kay burton!
The answer depends on the area where you want to be learned (kind of Un-Jahil).
With peace and love for all.
I was expecting something constructive and wise from you but.....doesn't matter.
PS: its madam, mademoiselle is for unmarried women.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
I agree with antiobl in some points. For example, where I work now, we have SO MANY muslims, but we never do any activities together, because when we do try to organize something, we end up arguing over whether or not to keep the men and women segregated, and what kind of "fun" activity muslims can do as a group. Meanwhile, these same gadha guys are going out with white or Indian female coworkers!!!!!
We could do so much work and activities and projects, but we don't because everyone is stubborn and no one wants to do anything progressive. In fact, I've been trying to convince the president of getting people to fundraise or volunteer at a local clinic some muslims have opened up, and he didn't want to, because "the clinic was far from his home".
????
Some problem we have in our culture and traditions (+foreign influences) and has rarely to do with our religion. We can't go out in family curcits combined men and women, but we can date women of the same cast or different.
How do we vanish It? We need to understand and analyse the problem to Its full. I believe, 10 years back It wasn't that worse at It has become now. I remember a time where famliy, friends gathering where hosted, without the trouble makers of keeping their women away from other male.
A society can only be establish and succeed when both sexes contribute 100% and yet as one unity.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
I was expecting something constructive and wise from you but.....doesn't matter.
PS: its madam, mademoiselle is for unmarried women.
How is this not constructive. In this post, anti-obl is sending out a strong message. We need to cut this crap of doing second-rate work. We need to become strong leaders in our own countries and communities, and encourage our people to gain knowledge.
i.e. when a family decides not to send their daughter to college or high school, so that she can get married off, DON'T applaud this or say its ok. Say that its wrong and convince the family to let her finish her schooling.
i.e. when a kid comes home with nearly failing grades, don't get him a friggin playstation!!!!! Make him/her bring up their grades.
i.e. Don't take it lightly when your daughter doesn't do that well in school. Get on her case just like she was your son.
i.e. Don't discourage your kid when they decide they don't want to be doctor and maybe want to be...er ANYTHING else but a doctor! There are other careers.
i.e. Don't save positions like the "Imam" for the most illiterate people in your society
i.e. Don't make education a privelege - provide it to everyone. The concept of public schooling in Pakistan...oh wait, is there such a concept?
How are these things not constructive to you??? This is way more constructive than coming online and posting ad nauseum stories about the history of Islam, because you know what? It aint coming back!
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
Some problem we have in our culture and traditions (+foreign influences) and has rarely to do with our religion. We can't go out in family curcits combined men and women, but we can date women of the same cast or different.
How do we vanish It? We need to understand and analyse the problem to Its full. I believe, 10 years back It wasn't that worse at It has become now. I remember a time where famliy, friends gathering where hosted, without the trouble makers of keeping their women away from other male.
A society can only be establish and succeed when both sexes contribute 100% and yet as one unity.
I don't know how bad the problem used to be.
But this is a problem. We're too fixated on minutia and nobody cares about broader goals. To me, its way more important to get muslims around the world some basic human rights, an opportunity to earn for themselves, and some basic education and awareness of the world around them. I HATE to see how muslims are focused on minutia topics like Polygamy, Hijab, Women working, Beards, Halaal Meats, Alcohol and other such topics being the main focus of every muslim.
I guess if its not about what goes in your pants (women) or about what goes in your stomach, then its not worth thinking about.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
^ I think that it would be considered equally important that non-muslims in predominantly or declared muslim countries can also be ensured their basic human rights which includes right to work and survive, to practice their beliefs without being harmed or harming etc.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
......To me, its way more important to get muslims around the world some basic human rights,an opportunity to earn for themselves, and some basic education and awareness of the world around them. I HATE to see how muslims are focused on minutia topics like Polygamy, Hijab, Women working, Beards, Halaal Meats, Alcohol and other such topics being the main focus of every muslim.
I guess if its not about what goes in your pants (women) or about what goes in your stomach, then its not worth thinking about.
Excellent idea PCG.
However I would suggest starting small instead of "getting Muslims around the world".
Like they say eat in small bites, social reformation must start small as well. If we can't rid our city of Karachi from ethnic chauvinism, or religious fanaticism, then we have no way of reforming "Muslims around the world".
p.s. Keep the good ideas coming, otherwise humanity would continue committing horrors in the name of one religion or the other.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
Excellent idea PCG.
However I would suggest starting small instead of "getting Muslims around the world".
Like they say eat in small bites, social reformation must start small as well. If we can't rid our city of Karachi from ethnic chauvinism, or religious fanaticism, then we have no way of reforming "Muslims around the world".
p.s. Keep the good ideas coming, otherwise humanity would continue committing horrors in the name of one religion or the other.
Just to add, we should start wherever we are. In whatever communities we live. The world of muslims does not start from Karachi so try to root out illiterate behavior wherever you encounter it, just be prudent when doing it in Pakistan though.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
Just to add, we should start wherever we are. In whatever communities we live. The world of muslims does not start from Karachi so try to root out illiterate behavior wherever you encounter it, just be prudent when doing it in Pakistan though.
Well I agree with that. If you are a US permanent resident, then we in Karachi shouldn't expect anything (good) from you ;)
On a serious note! Karachi may have tonnes of bad stuff, but this city is home to Edhi who single handedly have built a great organization with a budget larger than some small countries.
There is a hope. It is just that we the Pakistanis and decedents of Pakistanis get wrapped around the axle of "so called Muslim wor-led".
Then we the "Muslim-worl-led-ers" put our pajamas on and run straight to Palestine. While Karachi (or local Pakistani community) sings sad songs "Hum bhi to paraay hain rahon main".
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
How is this not constructive. In this post, anti-obl is sending out a strong message. We need to cut this crap of doing second-rate work. We need to become strong leaders in our own countries and communities, and encourage our people to gain knowledge.
Peace PyariCgudia
How so? The antiobl has assimilated Jahiliyya with Islamic Orthodoxy that is a strong message but it is not par for par with what you have stated above
i.e. when a family decides not to send their daughter to college or high school, so that she can get married off, DON'T applaud this or say its ok. Say that its wrong and convince the family to let her finish her schooling.
Nothing really to add to the examples except this one ... "Getting a daughter married off" is dependent on a multitude of factors. First and foremost she needs to be wanting of it, and her parents need to assess her need for it. Education can be done before or after marriage, but you can't turn back time if either a son or a daughter engage in illegal sexual contact with partners due to delays in marriage out of parental determination to educate before marriage.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
I don't know how bad the problem used to be.
But this is a problem. We're too fixated on minutia and nobody cares about broader goals. To me, its way more important to get muslims around the world some basic human rights, an opportunity to earn for themselves, and some basic education and awareness of the world around them. I HATE to see how muslims are focused on minutia topics like Polygamy, Hijab, Women working, Beards, Halaal Meats, Alcohol and other such topics being the main focus of every muslim.
I guess if its not about what goes in your pants (women) or about what goes in your stomach, then its not worth thinking about.
Peace again sister
This is want of a reply, because it is interesting that you don't see the issue here.
Dealing with polygamy leads to the issues related to female security.
Dealing with Hijab leads to the issues related to Muslim protection and identity.
Working women i.e. not obliging them to, leads to understanding that balance in burdening people with undue responsibility.
Beards again identity
Halal meat = Ever heard of the phrase "you are what you eat"?
Alcohol is the biggest killer, it also leads to many social issues and is consumed when social issues occur. It is "anti-social" incarnate.
None of these are minutia topics. Islam concentrates on root cause but people tend to only look at the detail itself with no regard to the impact of that detail. All of these in addition to the campaigning you have mentioned is required.
Furthermore ... it is you who I have seen in such threads talking much about these things.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
Some problem we have in our culture and traditions (+foreign influences) and has rarely to do with our religion. We can't go out in family curcits combined men and women, but we can date women of the same cast or different.
How do we vanish It? We need to understand and analyse the problem to Its full. I believe, 10 years back It wasn't that worse at It has become now. I remember a time where famliy, friends gathering where hosted, without the trouble makers of keeping their women away from other male.
A society can only be establish and succeed when both sexes contribute 100% and yet as one unity.
Peace Ali_R
Funny thing is that sometimes I have seen wives of some brothers who go to town and market by themselves, but when they come to visit or we go to visit they separate us as though a Muslim brother and friend is worse than general public. Surely by being adequately dressed and in the company of ones mahram that is enough. My wife does not like the imbalance in a niqab wearing sister who visits either she thinks that it is not right that her husband can see her face when I can't see his wife's face.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
Well I agree with that. If you are a US permanent resident, then we in Karachi shouldn't expect anything (good) from you ;)
On a serious note! Karachi may have tonnes of bad stuff, but this city is home to Edhi who single handedly have built a great organization with a budget larger than some small countries.
There is a hope. It is just that we the Pakistanis and decedents of Pakistanis get wrapped around the axle of "so called Muslim wor-led".
Then we the "Muslim-worl-led-ers" put our pajamas on and run straight to Palestine. While Karachi (or local Pakistani community) sings sad songs "Hum bhi to paraay hain rahon main".
Peace and love to all.
Peace antiobl
I dig your sentiments. From an outsiders perspective the Palestinians are getting whacked by others, but in Pakistan we are doing it to ourselves. No wonder "sad songs" are being sung.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
Peace antiobl
I dig your sentiments. From an outsiders perspective the Palestinians are getting whacked by others, but in Pakistan we are doing it to ourselves. No wonder "sad songs" are being sung.
Yeah in a way you are right. However do remember that Islamists are the trouble makers (suicide bombers) in both cases.
Hamas is committing terror against Palestinians and Israelis alike.
But off course we should concentrate on Pakistan.
So yes the Islamists are suiciding the barber shops in Northern areas.
Re: Islamic System or Implementation of Muslim Personal Code
I don't know how bad the problem used to be.
But this is a problem. We're too fixated on minutia and nobody cares about broader goals. To me, its way more important to get muslims around the world some basic human rights, an opportunity to earn for themselves, and some basic education and awareness of the world around them. I HATE to see how muslims are focused on minutia topics like Polygamy, Hijab, Women working, Beards, Halaal Meats, Alcohol and other such topics being the main focus of every muslim.
I guess if its not about what goes in your pants (women) or about what goes in your stomach, then its not worth thinking about.
I'm not sure about all muslims having only some topics about beards, hijab, women working, halaal, alcohol etc. But I know for sure we shouldn't generalize. I have muslim friends too and I hardly talk about beards, halaal, alcohol, or women working.
We are more focused about career, culture, family and future.
More over we are not of those, who disrespect other religions, culutural values or/and people in general. It is for sure that one has to respect each other. If one side rejects to do so, you don't pay them the respect either. There are some cases in my environment, where I dont feel to respect a person, since he feels being something better or just showing attitude.
So It's more a character issue not which faith you have.