Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

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I was watching an American documentary which someone lent to me, called ‘Islam’. It traced Islamic history right from its beginnings from the Prophet (pbuh), to the spread of Islam, the crusades and the Ottoman empire. Although it only skirted over many topics it put Islamic history into perspective for someone ignorant like me.

What fascinated me was the fact that Muslims after the 10th century were the most civilized and technology advanced group of people in the world – their engineering skills, philosophy, literature, were all way ahead of the west. When the crusaders came in, they were surprised to find such luxury – even things such as soap were unheard of in the west. The financial system was advanced, as were agriculture and irrigation systems. Baghdad was the center of knowledge at the time.

Now, what I’d like to know is, what happened after that – what happened to the innovation and the brains that were at work at the time?

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

CW: are u married/engaged?

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Pakoray, wrong thread. Too much peroni me thinks.

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

hhaan haan u are right , what is the thread about?????? ...oh man!!! sheit!

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

What you are talking about is the Egyptian, Persian (now known as middle Eastern) civilisation, they have nothing to do with Islam, these civilisations were much advanced even before Islam or Jesus.

I am sure you have heard of the advanced civilsations of these countries, eg: Piramids, Spinxz, Hanging gardens of Babylon - don't try bringing in Islam everywhere.

Near Home(South Asia)-the Harrappa/Gupta dynesties etc shows that South Asia were very advanced civilisations too (so were the Chinese) - Nothing to do with Religion.

With education, good rulers, opening of free thought comes prosperity. With prosperity comes achievements. This is what these civilisations were all about.

>>> Pink iz Back <<<
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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

This is the one you are talking bout Catty. I have it on DVD. It was show on PBS a few years ago. Very informative and beauitfully presented.

As to your question, I dunno how the innovation and brains were lost.

Islam: Empire of Faith](http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=1402880)

PIYAASI
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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

malhot, the civilizations you mention: babylon, egyptian, harrapa etc existed centuries before the birth of Christ i.e B.C. what cat-woman is talking bout the islamic civilization and its properity during the ottoman empire. Most of the europe was in dark ages when the islamic empire was at its height. You really need to watch this documentary before you open your mouth.

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Why you have an itch if Islam is given the credit for these advancement. This documentary was made by PBS not by some Muslim. So if non-Muslims are telling you that Islam brought advanced and civilized culture then how are you going to deny that? You need to look at the history of Arabs before Islam. They were barbaric and unsophisticated. Don’t go as far as 4 or 5 thousand old Babylon or Egyptian society. I am talking about situation of Arabs 1400 years ago right before Islam.

>>> Pink iz Back <<<
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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

In 1700s, three great muslim empires existed. The Mogul empire in India, the Safavid empire in Persia and the Ottoman empire in Turkey. The Mogul and Safavid empires came under the influence of European powers such as Great Britan and Russia and gradually disappeared. European expansion and economic control seriously weekened the Ottoman empire. Europeans established themselves in parts of Asia just like Muslims had earlier invaded Europe. In the 1900s most muslims gained independence and Pakistan is one of those countries. Now it is up to us to bring back the glory. Catty, are you up for it?

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Much of the knowledge was destroyed by Changez Khan (May he burn hellfire for eternity) in Baghdad…After that, the Muslims did recuperate, but like the initial zest of all movements, Islam began to lose strength in people’s hearts…

Add to that the disinterest and apathy of Muslims regarding Islam and its tenets, different ideologies started to settle in and corrupting Islamic roots…Hadith was all but forgotten (When was the last time any Hadith was discussed in your house)…Hadith, which lays down the foundation of a person’s character and his behaviour with other people, started to wane, as result, Muslims’ beahaviour started deviating…

In all the colleges of Islamic heydays, Hadith was a compulsory subject and it was by which people led their lives which in turn gave rise to intellectual thinking in Muslims which dictated their every day lives…Peace and harmony were the hallmark of Muslim civilizations which was enforced by honest, vigilant and trustworthy Muslim leaders…

Shariah was enforced stringly so everyone was secure, and we know, civilizations thrive on security…Arts flourished, sciences, languages e.t.c. became embellished with decorum and propriety…

Not to mention, every Muslim was secure in the knowledge that every Muslim in the world had the backing of every other Muslim by the universal concept of the Ummah enforced by the Khalifa…If even a single Muslim’s life was threatened by violence and oppression, the Muslim armies were ready to move…

Then came 1924 and the collapse of the Khilafa…The last Usmani Khalif was removed, the one person who could unite the Muslims was gone…The tenets of Islam, which dictated the Muslims’ lives were gone and in came various ideologies to distort Islamic way of life…

Now, due to massive propaganda by the west through media, Muslims have come to look upon the same ideologies that made them great for centuries, as backward, brutal and outdated…The Islam that provided peace and security to Muslims for centuries were dubbed as extremist ideologies, and Muslims, confused as they are, took the bait hook, line and sinker and today stand shoulder to shoulder with the Kuffar denouncing them…And denouncing those who wish to see the same ideologies enforced as Mullahs and backward people…Not realizing, that when something fails, it’s best and wisest to go back to that which worked before…

But the propaganda is too powerful…While thousands of non-Muslims embrace Islam every year to become model persons, we lose those with incontinent faiths to propaganda…But that is a good thing, because in Islam, numbers have never mattered…Only faith…Faith can move mountains and hearts…

Unless the ideologies of Islam are enforced and reapplied to the Muslims’ lives, we will continue this downward spiral…Socialism, democracy, fascism, nothing will help…Not for Muslims at least…

When it is written, that success lies in following the commands of Allah :swt:, you can huff and you can puff, but you will never rise by following something else…

But these are all very backward thoughts as many may have already been taught…Success lies in what you can see and touch, not books from some God above…That’s for backward thinking people who wish to drag Muslims back to the 7th century…

*Shareef ko kameen aur bayghairat ki haseen samajhtay hain,
Aaj kal kay na samajh log *baywaqoof ko zaheen samajhtay hain…

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Islamic Empire never recovered from the onslaught of the Mongols. First Genghis Khan, then his grandson Helugu shattered dealt a fatal blow to the Islamic Empire.

Peace and prosperity are some of the necessary ingredients that fuel a civilization. Arts and sciences flourished under the patronage of the rulers, and wealthy members of the society. This was also true of the Islamic Empire.

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Why is Islamic and civilization in the same thred

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Also from PBS, another brilliant production.

Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet](http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=1402986)

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

just watched the program on ch4 today when the moors conquered europe very informative, my guess is that in the quran there is a passage 'seek knowledge' and this is what the arabs did, they built magnificent mosques in spain, like cordoba, toledo, held thousands of books on scoence philosophy, became very civilised but with sophisticating they did not have a strong millitary hence the west conquered most of spain, the muslim world today has lost focus and itself divided, what it want is a return to the khilafa system.
Basically the muslims are not innovating anymore, and are only lapping up consumerism

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

and why are you in the same thread too? :hoonh:

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

The downfall started when Muslim scholars started fighting/debating on smallest of issues, the whole society would get involved in “manaazira” and doing “wah wah” for the opinions while Genghis Khan/Mongols invaded and wiped out the country.

~Yahoo Chat~
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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

:k: :k: :k:

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Alternatively, Muslims became ignorant of their religion and their history. That will sum it up :slight_smile:

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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

yes, that is another extreme.

What is sexy?
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Re: Islamic Civilisation - what came of it?

Not quite true. Back as far as 1200 AD there was significant discord amongst the Muslims - observe how the Sunnis had 2 Khalifas, one in Baghdad and one in Cordoba. Neither would help the other when attacked by the Kuffar.

The Uthmani and Moghul dynasties did little-to-nothing to help each other during their final couple of hundred year as well.

There was a rot in the Ummah, nationalism and quest for power, that went far, far back and which had begun during the alleged “glory days” of Islam.
Frankly, the rot began after the death of the final of the Khalifa-ul-Rashideen.

Catty, the main secular factor that was the death-nell of the Islamic glory was the loss of trade. The Uthmani state was immensely wealthy through taxing trade between Asia and Europe, because it was located between the two. It had comparitively little production when compared to European countries.

When the European powers sailed around Africa to Asia, they were able to set up trade routes with Asia that circumvented the Uthmani Khalifat. This denied it most of its income, and the state could not develop newer, different economic policies to deal with the new situation because of the fear of doing things differently to before.

As the Uthmani state fell deeper and deeper into economic decline, huge amounts of corruption follows. By the end of the 1800s, unable to inflict further military defeats on its European neighbours to gain wealth through jihad, the onyl source of money available to the Uthmani government was to borrow money at high interest rates from European banks.

By the early 1900s Uthmani economic policy was decided by these banks in Paris and London, who threatened to withhold future loans if the Khalifa didn’t obey them.

Part of the reason why the Khalifa joined the German side in World War 1 was in the hope that through defeating France and Britain, the Khalifa could force the Uthmani debts to be lifted and sovereignty restored.

Of course, the Khalifa lost the war, and ended up agreeing to a peace where he gave up control of the capital of the Khalifat to France and Britain, and was reduced to being just their puppet.