Re: Islam vs Taliban....
^ u r right my friend. 2 wrongs dont make 1 right. jst coz Americans r oppressors doesnt mean we dont condemn Taliban, or Alqaeda for the atrocities they commit...
^ you mean Gog and MagGog?
yep yep
Lets start speaking about the elephant in the room.
the TALIBAN IMPLEMENT SHARIA LAW.
SHARIA LAW IS ISLAMIC LAW.
EITHER YOU BELIEVE IN THEIR RADICAL IDEOLOGY OR YOU DONT.
THERE IS NO SHAME IN SAYING YOU DONT BELIEVE IN IT.
it's a real pity to see moderate values being crushed and Taliban/Sharia taking over Pakistan, replacing the wonderful concepts of individual liberty, even though it was already minimal, with a bunch of stone age bull**** popularised by a mass of uneducated dolts with IQ no higher than my ****.
congratulations.
Mashallah?
Taliban ideology has nothing unislamic about it.
Whats unislamic, is the Taliban image in the west. First it was communism, now its Taliban, next it'll be muslims in general.
Right about that. :) Though they do have a bad image of muslims in general also. So its not next, it is now.
[quote=“LockJaw, post:23, topic:198057”]
Well you dont need to bring that argument up with me. I have been opposed to ethnic hate mongering in Karachi.
The public has been opposed to drone attacks for a while. One major reason for that is that when a drone hits those 12 children, not many come and say look this is all propaganda and theres nothing wrong with their ideology. No shortage of people on the other hand unfortunately emerge every time there is an atrocity by the Taleban and seek to dilute focus from them by pointing here an there.
Its like the kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar saying other kids do it too. With due respect, its a childish line of argument to take.
Finally, since the drone attacks started, some 200 people have died on Pakistani soil, according to the latest [http://pakobserver.net/200904/09/news/topstories02.asp"]figure(http://[
I dont know where to start with you, since you completely (intentionally or not) ignored or misunderstood my point regarding the prophetofdoom website.
If you can understand that, then I might be able to continue some discussion, as I really dont have time to spoon feed someone who is already firmly grounded.
Stating Talibanistic unity is from the 90s is a good way to brush aside the point. Please read the history of the Taliban, before you ever heard about them from CNN, or GEO.
Just because the media wants you to shift your perspective towards “defending” Pakistan from this “threat of taliban takeover”, doesn’t mean you have to join the bandwagon.
And yes, there is always a grey area. Just because some villager gets his family blown up by raids, then decides to blow himself in some police station or whatever, doesn’t mean he is to blame for his atrocious act, it will keep happening until you fix the root causes. And that does not need to involve violence, just an awareness is enough. It may be easier for you to be wherever you are and make claims because GEO shows you a video of some people doing something ‘unislamic’. However, who are you to judge if the threat is entirely a threat at all?](. About the same number have died from Taleban bombings last month alone.)
The reason I brought the every pashtun is a terrorist argument was because of the lies and propaganda that was spread in karachi that resulted in many innocent pashtuns getting killed.
Where was the public then? Where were the chants of "slay the pigs! and animals!" then?
Where was the public when 12 children died in a US drone attack? Where were the chants then?
To not attempt to answer my question regarding prophetofdoom, or any other anti-islamic website, is an attempt to escape real discussion on this.
There are people who consider ALL muslims to be terrorists, and islamic text to be of evil compilations of how to rule the world violently.
What is the difference between THEM and you? Think about that for a while.
TTP is what claimed attack for the hospital bombing (attesting to the fact that the news report was not bias).
TTP is not part of the Talibanistic Ideology which brought stability to Afghanistan.
Infact, Taliban actually sent parties to mediate within TTP, to bring peace with the Pakistani Army, and focus on the bigger things at play in the area, such as the drone attacks in Afghanistan AND Pakistan. No doubt there are nutjobs within the TTP. Not a hard fact to attest to.
Where is Pakistani sovereignty when over 200 attacks are carried out in its territory? Where is Pakistani sovereignty when over hundreds of FBI offices exist at every level of the government?
This is our Pakistani pride? Seriously?
Pakistani people never blame themselves for their mishaps, they always like to escape goat. Either India, or now Taliban.
Anyone causing mischief, it HAS to be Taliban. WHy? ...Because I am intelligent and I read DAWN newspaper everyday!
Thats not how it works. The world isn't as black and white, we pakistanis overlook the grey areas.
I disgust at the operations of US army worldwide. However, there are so many soldiers and commanders I respect for what they have done in the line of duty.
I disgust at the operations of the Israeli army, but I respect their soldiers for opting out of the previous Gaza for humanitarian sake.
Pakistanis just need dramay baazi, thats all. Until we come out of that phase and take responsibilities in our own hands, we're not getting anywhere in the world.
Before the Taliban came, we blamed RAW and indian spies of our attacks. Civil disruption in the country occurs because of IDIOTS and foreign influences.
There are pakistanis who will destroy hospitals and bomb marketplaces. There are pakistanis who not only flog girls, but kill them in the honour of their families. There are pakistanis that fire openly in streets, and murder at will.
When did Pakistanis become angels? Why dont we rectify ourselves. Why are we instigating more violence, when we're supposed to have belief in Allah to help us?
When we dont have imaan, we rely on weapons.
Is there any chance of MQM influence on Geo tv or them being directly involved in creating this tv channel??? I was also quite enraged by watching the video first but now lots of things have started to connect together and I think there's more to this story.....much more or we can just make ourselves satisfied by blaming everything on Taliban.
Is there any chance of MQM influence on Geo tv or them being directly involved in creating this tv channel??? I was also quite enraged by watching the video first but now lots of things have started to connect together and I think there's more to this story.....much more or we can just make ourselves satisfied by blaming everything on Taliban.
The video is part of a lot of other series of videos that are used to propagate against muslims.
The famous burial of a teenage girl in Iran for being a rape victim was another widely misunderstood image, used to propagate and turn the perspective of the masses towards a political goal.
GEO News is a propaganda machine.
Re: Islam vs Taliban....
I call it desi version of Fox News.
Re: Islam vs Taliban....
^ hate to burst your geo hate but the source of the video is a well known activist, and the video was played at virtually all media orgs, because she sent it to multiple places. dont make me look for her name, I feel lazy.
I dont know where to start with you, since you completely (intentionally or not) ignored or misunderstood my point regarding the prophetofdoom website.
You have made no point. The first time you mentioned it, you said they hate all muslims, similarly Pakistanies have started picking on all pashtuns. Second time you say:
[quote]
There are people who consider ALL muslims to be terrorists, and islamic text to be of evil compilations of how to rule the world violently.
What is the difference between THEM and you? Think about that for a while.
[/quote]
I explained very clearly the difference. Merely because I happen to condemn some Muslims doesnt make me one and the same as critics who may wish to criticise all Muslims. You have to do better in order to draw equivalence or even similarity.
[quote]
Stating Talibanistic unity is from the 90s is a good way to brush aside the point. Please read the history of the Taliban, before you ever heard about them from CNN, or GEO.
[/quote]
I dont care about Talibanistic unity or their history. I have been aware of them since before CNN or GEO were common terms in Pakistan, and have been at best, ambivalent towards old-school Taleban.
[quote]
Just because the media wants you to shift your perspective towards "defending" Pakistan from this "threat of taliban takeover", doesn't mean you have to join the bandwagon.
[/quote]
Very true. Which is why I dont join any bandwagons unless the merits of the wagon are acceptable.
[quote]
And yes, there is always a grey area. Just because some villager gets his family blown up by raids, then decides to blow himself in some police station or whatever, doesn't mean he is to blame for his atrocious act, it will keep happening until you fix the root causes.
[/quote]
Here we go. Heres the defence. Sir this is not a gray area when it comes to the condemnation of the Taleban as a group. Bear in mind that the organization planned, targeted and executed the bombing of hospitals and mosques and other such places. The foot soldier may have personal motivations such as revenge for my family (which is sometimes but by no means the only movatation). That does not make the organization that plans and claims these bombings any less reprehensible, or any more gray.
They have killed thousands of soldiers and policemen and general civilians now. Why dont some people from say Lahore or Islamabad start going to Swat or FATA by themselves and blow themselves up? It takes more than animus and grievances to maintain a campaign of bombings in a country.
[quote]
And that does not need to involve violence, just an awareness is enough. It may be easier for you to be wherever you are and make claims because GEO shows you a video of some people doing something 'unislamic'. However, who are you to judge if the threat is entirely a threat at all?
[/quote]
Who are you to judge that it isnt? We all make judgements in personal capacities and with the information we have. Please dont assume anything about the sources of my information, or that my thought process is necessarily stupid. I can disagree with you without being the intellectual equal of a pile of bricks, the correct approach is to provide reasoned arguments instead of assuming who I am or what I read. You dont see me saying things like 'you get your news from Taleban Times' etc etc.. we should be above that.
we got a new mufti in the house roll eyes
Taliban ideology has nothing unislamic about it.
Whats unislamic, is the Taliban image in the west. First it was communism, now its Taliban, next it'll be muslims in general.
Don't you find the anti-human tendencies to be sickening, though? Cutting off people's hands? Stoning people? Murdering people for holding different beliefs about morality?
Not that great if you ask me. seriously, how do you sleep at night?