Heres a topic i’ve been thinking about posting for a long time.
I’m sure most of the citizens of Gupshup are more than fammilair with me now so i’ll keep my question short as possible.
Basically as a Muslim it has been a lifelong question in my mind, how on earth did Islam reach the Subcontinent of India and how was it spread? I now have enough information to put my own mind at rest but i wanted to see what you people think on the matter.
Was Islam spread via the sword and through endless campaigns and invasions of Hindudom or was it spread through the works of saints and heros whose efforts seem less glorious but who in fact did the real work of Allah.
^ Thats a good starting point actually but ideally i wanna hear what others say too becuase just wait till the Indians see this thread then the real beans start spilling
I started this to reach a conclusion but it seems that is far off at this moment,…
the intention is to hear what others think becuase we need to set things straight a lot of Hindu and Muslim hatred can be stopped if we discuss this sort of dividing point head on… like a lot of struggles there might be cuts and blood… i hope not anyway… but by opening these old wounds we might yet stop new ones from taking place if you get my drift.
It was a mix of both. When you consider that most of India was rural, but the invading armies of Muslims aimed to crush enemy armies and take control of cities.... most Hindus woudl not have come face to face with armed Muslims who were forcing conversions. Not to mention the fact that in nearly 1000 years of Muslim control over large areas of India, only in a minority of areas did the people convert to Islam. If there was a state-wide policy of converting or dying, then the entire population of those areas today would be Muslim.
In Iran following the Safavid takeover, the Sunni population was ordered to convert to Shiaism or die, and as a result Sunnism was virtually eliminated from Persia and survived only in the Baluch borderlands. Similarly in Turkey, all Shias were ordered to convert to Sunnism or die, and as a result Shia beliefs are virtually non existent in Turkey.
The fact that no such mass conversion ever happened in the Indian subcontinent puts lie to claims of conversion by force.
In fact, some recent studies (by Westerners) have suggested that contrary to the concept of Muslims armies invading and forcing conversions at swordpoint, in the Muslim conquest of India, the rulers were initially reluctant to convert Hindus to Islam - because Muslims could not be taxed Jizya. Jizya helped pay for upkeep of the state, which was easier if there were non-Muslims to tax. The goal was to place India under Muslim control, rather than to convert India.
Would you agree with me that many downplay the role of the Holy men and Saints who did the real work and through whom India was most blessed?
Certianly men like Mahmood of Ghazni will be chanted and praised in Muslim camps all over and particularly among the fanatics and the so called terrorists and taliban... but for a man to invade a country 17 times and still have to run away is shamefull when you compare it to the acts of Sufi's Saints and Fakeers who through example and teaching taught love and respect and converted many of the locals by thier example of fiath in a dog eat dog world.
The fist Mosque in India was built in a place called Kodungalloor.During those times there existed a sea trade relationship between Kerala and Arabia.The relationship between Kerala and Arabia was mutual,co-operative and in harmony.This paved the way for Islam to set it's foots in kerala and make it's base.The local rulers and people supported and encouraged them,as religious intolerence was not even heard of those days.Thus Islam made it's base in the southern region of india through peaceful means.But in North and west ,it was mainly through conquests.
Not only Islam was welcomed to kerala with both hand open.Christianity,Judaim were all greeted with warm and care.
Faris Bhai I hope it was to you,I had forwarded the pictures of the first mosque in India.`Cheraman Perumal Mosque'.I have seen that Mosque.
The co-ordial existence of Kerala-Arab sea trade was hammered by the arrival of Portugese in 15th century.Infact the Portugese was the first instrumental in vanishing Arabs from the region.
It was the first time i had ever heard of that Masjid in Kodungalloor but i researched it in depth, and yes it was indeed the first Masjid in the subcontinent... and furthermore it was never built by conquering armies but by traders, merchants and the native population.
It goes to show that Islam was established in India long before Mahmood of Ghazni's invasions... which followed this by a century or so.
Faris your question is too deep and can take lot of pages but without going in details in my point of view First it spreads thru Tabligh like our Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (peace be upon him) did. He (peace be upon him) first tablegh and then used sword.
IN Sub Continent Although there were several attacks by Muslims but in the end there were saints who came with Conqueror and start Tableekh of Islam and still you ve many Saints to whom mulsims and hindu both loves a lot and visit their Mazar's.
So i think its was the mixture but the main reason was saints who live there and continuously preaches Islam and showed the people the true picture of Islam.
Indeed i think your right. However many who came saw and conquered did little to expand the faith... where as the saints did no conquering except in hearts and minds.
It was the first time i had ever heard of that Masjid in Kodungalloor but i researched it in depth, and yes it was indeed the first Masjid in the subcontinent... and furthermore it was never built by conquering armies but by traders, merchants and the native population.
It goes to show that Islam was established in India long before Mahmood of Ghazni's invasions... which followed this by a century or so.
Pretty much the same what I have said earlier.
But there is a geographical difference.Islam spread in North and west maninly because of conquests and the prime reason being the main access to West,North and Central Indian subcontinent was through land and invaders could thrust in to this part of the world.Whereas ,the downsouth ,having the cushion of deep Central land territory offered access mainly through waters and none of the invading forces had ventured out for that.This is one of the main reasons ,the foreign religions such Islam,Christianity and Judaism arrived in down south through traders.
The communal harmony and the friendly nature existed with the people of down south was one of the main reasons,Judaism suffered absolutely no harm at the hands of local people ,though it had suffered in other parts of the world.After the modern state of Israel became a reality in 1948,many of the Jews who had lived in Kerala had left for their promised land but a handful of the families chose to stay back.(Just abt 48 families).
Again as for Christianity,it is believed that the first converted person was Brahmin ,by St.Thomas.
One of the incrdible things is,many Muslim families in kerala do take part in some of the Hindu festivals ,as part of their ancestral roylty .I have personally seen Muslims doing their offerings to some of the prominent temples in kerala.But this piture becomes bleak and different when it goes to North.I believe they are some more conservative.
Faris your question is too deep and can take lot of pages but without going in details in my point of view First it spreads thru Tabligh like our Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (peace be upon him) did. He (peace be upon him) first tablegh and then used sword.
*IN Sub Continent Although there were several attacks by Muslims but in the end there were saints who came with Conqueror and start Tableekh of Islam and still you ve many Saints to whom mulsims and hindu both loves a lot and visit their Mazar's. *
So i think its was the mixture but the main reason was saints who live there and continuously preaches Islam and showed the people the true picture of Islam.
True and well said.
I can very well tell you that ,though I am a hard core Hindu and I have faith only in two eternal forms (Primarily Mother Goddess Kali and Lord Vishnu),and I do not care abt any other things in this world,I am a firm believer in Kwaja Moinuddin Chishti of Ajmir.
Yes i suppose your right there is a subtle difference between north and south. However even in the north i doubt as many converts were gained via force as were gained via paecefull teachings.
As well as this i suppose the northern Indian states have always been stricter socially and culturally regardless of faith becuase even though the North was invaded so many times... Northerners never seemed to give up as easilly perhaps due to thier experiances of war.
Whereas southern India was not so formidable and was conquered very swiftly by Northerners and by the British.
[QUOTE] I am a firm believer in Kwaja Moinuddin Chishti of Ajmir.
[/QUOTE]
I dont doubt that for a minute, for Khwaja sahib is the true King of India and more than that he is the uncrowned king of all peoples of the subcontinent. However out of Interest i believe Ajmer is classed as north India is it not?
Although it was once under the rule of Mahratha's who are South Indian. Perhaps there was a difference between northern Mahratha states and southern ones...
but overall i suppose there is a difference between north and south, though it is considerabley stricter in the north harmony is not elusive there either.
I guess we must all learn to live in harmony for the better.
The Southerners had never surrendered as easily as the general misconception is.
One such example is Mr.Pazhassiraja (Malabar,Kerala)who had put up a brave front against the British through Guerilla warfare with the help of his Tribal entourage and also with the aid of local Muslims.He had given the British Army some real testing times and one of the British heroes who had tasted Pazhassi's war games was
Again south had Tipu and Hyder Ali who had resisted the British for a long time.Again there were Travancore heroes ,both Hindus and Christians who had resisted Tipu effectively!!! You have numerous fighters from South who had resisted the Portugese,French and Dutch.....
Again the colonization ambitions of the Dutch was shattered in to pieces by the king of Travancore in Kolachal war of 1741!!! This was one of the major battles which proved local kings could beat highly trained Europeans!!!
Again a peace of info:The commander of the defeated Dutch Army at Kolachal was Mr.De Lannoy.After his surrender,he offered his assistance to the King of Travancore to frame a modern army.According to his plan a fort and defence wall were created ,which would later help the kingdom of Travancore to defend Tipu.Though Mr.De Lannoy was acceped and acknowledged in travancore,the news of his defeat and surrender reached Netherlands and the special privileges given to his family were revoked.........
Again ,the only place in the entire Subcontinent,the British never annexed to their empire through forceful means,but let the region to be ruled almost independentlly was Travancore.The Britsh had a very co-ordial and mutual understanding with them and it continued until independence!!!
So Southerners knew the deeper aspects of diplomacy aswell. Again Southerners had never taken part in 1857 Rebellion.They knew it was a waste of time and resources
Hmmm i not quite convivnced about southern heroics, doubtless there were some fine souls but not many and Hyder Ali was from the Punjab so that doesn’t quite count as for Travancore thats a maybe…
Anyway back to the topic it seems the genral agreemant is that Islam was spread via both the works of Saints and the works of Soldiers.
However as a general conclusion we can conclude that more converts were gained via tableeg than via forced at swordpoint.
arleitter- this may be a tangent question, but why is the south and north so different in india? in most respects, whether its communal harmony, education, industry?
please start a new thread in the appropriate forum on the site if needed, but I have often wondered at the historical, cultural type factors that would have contributed to it.
so you started this for a fight faris bhai 
