Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Peace ummm

Finally you concede to not being able to produce evidence that religion was developed by man due to a fear of death. Well at least you now say that you don't NEED to produce that evidence. My evidence is in the Qur'an and I have told you this before. The Qur'an tells us that God has chosen for us Islam. The Qur'an can be tested in accordance with the falsification test that it provides, that you have been unable to do, which the Qur'an itself states.

Surah 5 verse 3. Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah. that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. **This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. **But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

My proof that Islam is sent by God, stems from the preserved status of the Qur'an that is unchanged through time, and that it serves as the very teachings unadulterated from Muhammad (SAW) who was the final messenger evidenced by his miracles and truth and fulfilments of prophecy, evidenced by textual statements by his contemporaries that themselves have been classified and regulated through time in order to keep a preserved record of events. My faith is also my evidence and my relationship with my Lord and what has been told to me about my inner thoughts and how accurate they are. The Qur'an speaks to me and that is how I feel and that is evidence for me to grasp it and accept it as the Word of God.

Indeed I have the Qur'an and you have nothing but a theory that you don't NEED to substantiate, so therefore I on an objective level I have more evidence than you in fact you are not willing to provide any evidence on your take therefore you can say all you like that you are not engaging in a contest ... but my point still stands that so far I have a greater premise to believe in Islam than you have to believe in your atheism. But of course you are quite free to believe what you want.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

And pyasa does not leave a chance to flaunt his disconnected verses again over here..

Verdict for round three.......atheist wins it again.....any more scholars other than pyasa and USresident for round four because they don't to make much sense recycling their answers......

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

One quick question......Do you lead yourlife by scientific reasoning or Quranic reasoning ? Don't tell me both because you can't be a subset of both, its either one or another ?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Psyah, the Quran is nothing but a theory as well, there is nothing that proves it was from God other than it says it is. There is nothing to prove that the words were recorded perfectly other than it says they have. There is nothing to prove Muhammad was the last messenger other than the Quran says so. Surely you realized it is nothing but a circular argument and without faith there is not proof.

A couple of other issues I have with that post. The statement "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" has been proven wrong. The practice of Islam today is much different than what is in the Quran. Muslims throughout history have added hadith, customs and culture to the practice orf Islam. For example, if Islam were perfected on the day that statement was recorded Muslims would be praying 3 times a day, not 5.

Religion has been around for tens of thouands of years, way before man could write. How could someone possible have "proof" of why man created religion?

[quote]
My proof that Islam is sent by God, stems from the preserved status of the Qur'an that is unchanged through time, and that it serves as the very teachings unadulterated from Muhammad (SAW) who was the final messenger evidenced by his miracles and truth and fulfilments of prophecy
[/quote]
God's previous messages weren't preserved so does that mean weren't sent from God? Either way, the preservation of a book occurs AFTER it is revealed and has nothing to do with who how or why it was written. And what miracles did Muhammad perform?

~~~ Missing someone ~~~
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Peace ummm

Argue? Or Argument that is the question ... postulation should I say in future? Your postulation is now non-existent and has been replaced by ridicule not my words your words. In fact the Qur'an talks about you all the time it seems.

Did you know it talks about those who ridicule?

Surah 18 verse 106. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.

Besides, the article of ridicule is not proof of its errancy. You can make fun out my clothes it does not mean that they are not comfortable. In the same sense you can ridicule the idea of God punishing us, but it does not mean He will not do it. Rather by claiming that you are saying the Qur'an is either a fraud or God is lying audzubillah. Let's assume that you say it is a fraud then you need to meet the challenge that the Qur'an tells you to meet, to bring thereof one chapter like it, if you are claiming that God is lying (audzubillah) then you are really not saying much, because if God can lie then it will be impossible for us to know when a truth is told. Besides the Qur'an testifies that God reveals the truth.

Surah 3 verse 60 (This is) the truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of those who waver.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Peace again Rocking vibes

It seems as though I may have rocked a chord. My Judge is my Lord, and you are a self-appointed judge whom no one has given authority to to be dishing out points. Is that all you come here for ... otherwise please stop posting red-herrings.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Seriously dude, you need help big time to deal with your issues.......Here is how I comprehend your answer....

It seems as though I may have rocked a chord..............Don't know what you mean, maybe some references of verses from the Quran would help !

My Judge is my Lord, and you are a self-appointed judge whom no one has given authority to to be dishing out points............your lord maybe your judge, I have no problems with that, I have not self-appointed myself as judge, but apparently your lord has given me a brain which I can use to perceive things around me distinguish the good and the bad......not just follow a self proclaimed book blindly. So, I am just using my brain like the way it was meant to, not blocking my thinking just because a book says so.

Is that all you come here for ... otherwise please stop posting red-herrings.........Hmmm who seems to be a self proclaimed judge over here, what happened to the lord BS..Sir ?

Peace out Pyasa !!

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

not to befuddle your line of thought here, but do any of us live by either? (I mean purely by)

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Srry... may have to reword my question.....What would you prefer.....Quranic reasoning or scientific reasoning for day to day things ?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

I guess I need not answer you gain psyah, Seminole has put it much better than I can

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

[QUOTE]
Argue? Or Argument that is the question ... postulation should I say in future? Your postulation is now non-existent and has been replaced by ridicule not my words your words. In fact the Qur'an talks about you all the time it seems.

Did you know it talks about those who ridicule?
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I would have been surprised if it didn't. Allah's greatest fear and object of hatred are those who question him. Obviously those who ridicule him must be subjected to endless pains and miseries.

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Surah 18 verse 106. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
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Thank you for proving my point again. My reward will be hell, for daring to oppose a tyrannical dictator.

[QUOTE]

Besides, the article of ridicule is not proof of its errancy. You can make fun out my clothes it does not mean that they are not comfortable.

[/QUOTE]

Yet some errors deserve nothing but ridicule.

I have made my point completely clear and dodging my question doesn't help:

DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THAT ALLAH IS BEYOND RULERS AND ITS PERFECTLY OKAY TO BURN NON-BELIEVERS FOR ALL ETERNITY?

I am not interested in adressing any of your other points just now.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

I bet pyasa has never dug up the Quran as much as he has done in the last four days....

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

And what do you bring to the conversation? besides the small talk and jabs here and there.

Or are you just serving as a sidekick for ummm?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Is it sensible for the non-believers to choose that fate when they are not compelled to do so and have been explicitly informed about where that choice leads to? Belief in Allah SWT doesn't cost you a dime but a lot of ego.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

As definite and undefeatable atheists seem to be that they are w/out a creator. EVERYONE dies eventually. Even atheists say Oh God!! in pain once in a great while.

If God didn't exist then everyone would be able to live to a somewhat equal amount of age, but yet babies and adults die of natural causes. What makes death happen?

Embryology was layed out and explained in the Quran. People didn't even know how the embryo is formed, then shaped, then feeds off the womb of the mother and ejects as a living being. Quran is scientifically, and spiritually Precise. All scientific discoveries are, have been, and always will be in agreement with the Quran.

There has not been anything in the Quran that has been refuted scientifically.

Instead of making small talk and asking silly questions, why don't you (the God-less folks) PROVE that what Quran mentions is false by the way of Scientific explanation? It is a known fact that world will come to an end because the universe is expanding at and ever-rapid rate. Sun is burning hotter than ever. All scientific facts.

So brave up!...present something! don't go searching Atheist blogs full of sum wacko fantasies someone thought of because he/she didn't get what they wanted in life, so decide to get pissed off and believe there is no God.

There is.....!!! Which is why you are a perfect creation. Theory of Evolution has no ground to stand on. Even the earliest of organisms were made in such a fashion that none other than a super being like God could have created it to begin with.

Someone said, why did God take so long to put Adam and Eve on earth..!!! Do you know WHEN they were put on earth?

PS: On the whole, just because you do not understand something, it doesn't necessarily mean there's a fault in what is being told. Some things are just hard to comprehend. Just because you have the desire to see to believe God, does not mean God does not exist. Air exists but you cannot see it. Do you refuse to accept that as well? What about the millions of microorganisms that cover the environment? Centuries back people did not know Germs cause illnesses. Will you wait till a technology is invented that can show God's presence? What if it is never invented, will you die in deception of Godlessness? The signs are all around us. Sometimes we just choose not to accept them because it goes against everything we've been taught, and/or everything we want to believe. Ego plays a role as well.

Same goes for Quran as well. Whether or not one chooses to believe it in, is their choice. That is fine. But do you choose not to believe it simply because it goes against everything you want to believe and all that you've been told, and taught? A question to ponder over....

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm


Explicitly informed by what/whom? A book they don't believe in or respect? If one doesn't have that belief then there is no "choice". And if one acquires that belief just avoid hellfire then is based on selfishness and not spirituality - which means nothing.

Sing a Song according 2 Ur Mood !!!!!
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm


You don't know that. You just don't know so it is easier to say "God did it" and all I need do is read this book, believe it and pray incessantly and I will have all the answers and eternal life. So would see that as a cop out.

[quote]
Someone said, why did God take so long to put Adam and Eve on earth..!!! Do you know WHEN they were put on earth?
[/quote]
No, do you?

[quote]
PS: On the whole, just because you do not understand something, it doesn't necessarily mean there's a fault in what is being told. Some things are just hard to comprehend.
[/quote]
Just as I said about some believers. Just becuase you don't understand how evolution or creation came about doesn't mean the Quran/God is the ONLY possbile answer. Unfortunately no one was around billions of years ago when life started to have written a book about it.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

*And if it had been written that long ago, would everyone believe in it? I think not. There have been, are, and will be people who just cannot accept the divine, no matter how many signs they see before them.
*

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm


Sorry, but it does NOT explain things from beginning to end. Heck, we have thousands of hadith to sort through in addition to the Quran and people still don't know if they can eat shrimp cocktail. The Quran is only 77,000 words (War and Peace is 7 times as long), hardly long enough to explain everything in life. It explains many things in great detail, mainly those things that relate to 7th century Arabic culture and the necessity to worship Allah.

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And if it had been written that long ago, would everyone believe in it? I think not. There have been, are, and will be people who just cannot accept the divine, no matter how many signs they see before them.
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Well the Quran is supposedly perfect from 1400 years ago and 80% of the world doesn't believe in it. Who knows how many of the remaining 20% would if not for the culture that demands those born into it remain in it.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

[quote="Seminole, post:25, topic:180216"]

Sorry, but it does NOT explain things from beginning to end. Heck, we have thousands of hadith to sort through in addition to the Quran and people still don't know if they can eat shrimp cocktail. The Quran is only 77,000 words (War and Peace is 7 times as long), hardly long enough to explain everything in life. It explains many things in great detail, mainly those things that relate to 7th century Arabic culture and the necessity to worship Allah.

That is the beauty of the Divine text that it explain everything within that volume of words. Humans would struggle to tackle that. Just like u said, there are books that have more words (implying a heck of a lot more effort and still half done job). Quran emphasizes the worship of Allah because that was the same message that has been given to all the prophets from the beginning of the times. Yet time and again, people turned away from that message. So yes, it is important to make that the central point of the text because (believers) feel that is the reason we're here. It's a short span out of the eternal in which we're tested for our sincerity. And to make us and the doubtful believe that the book is indeed from the divine and not the words of a poet, it talks of things such as the form of a human (embryology), the atmosphere (ozone layer, made to protect us from harmful substances), and so on....(Things which people of that time did not know about...therefore proving it was not a man-written text). Also, Quran does challenge anyone to come up with a text such as itself, even a single chapter! You have to know the arabic language to appreciate the beauty of the grammar used. Although Quran is available in all languages, some arabic is lost in the translation, therefore it is best to read it in its original form. Arabic that is, to get the most out of it, as far as understanding to the core, goes.

Well the Quran is supposedly perfect from 1400 years ago and 80% of the world doesn't believe in it. Who knows how many of the remaining 20% would if not for the culture that demands those born into it remain in it.

*How sincere of you to ignore the growing number of converts that comes from all colors and faiths and cultures!!!
*