Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

I owe some of my opinions and knowledge to Sina, but I oppose his views in many places.

I thought we were to debate about facts, regardless of the source. I have quoted the Quran from reliable websites. What more do you need?

What is the best gift
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

West is a direction, not a place. You don’t mean Sun always sets only in America?:confused:

Aaj Bhi
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Let's discuss Allah's exstence. Some people define God is inanimate and unknowable. If God is unknowable, the topic is undebatable. The concept of Allah is more down-to-earth.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

^^^ Let's start with a little thinking...

Suppose, you, using advanced 3rd millenium technology succeed in creating your own big bang and give birth to a new Universe. Also suppose that you are immortal.
In course of time, the Universe develops, a planet is formed and intelligent animals like human beings evolve in that planet. Wouldn't you be just proud of your hard work, your creation? Would you really want all the intelligent animals bow down before you 5 times a day, every day, failing which you would brutally cast them into hell? Would you really give your precious creations such brutal punishment for silly reasons like that? Would you care about who among them believe in you, instead of being more concerned about their cultural development? Would you brutally punish them just because they didn't believe in you?Would you want a war b/w those who beleive inyou and those who don't/

This is my first accusation against the Quranic allah- tyranny.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

[QUOTE]

And to prove it scientifically is most intriguing because people back then did not have the knowledge that we have today through science, yet every discovery made today, has and was already explained and presented in the book.

[/QUOTE]

So you believe that mountains are pegs that prevent the earth from shaking, or that the moon was split, etc...?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

if Quran doesn't use scientifically correct language, it will be very puzzling for US, no?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

MAAF KEEJYEGAA......

agar aap log behes na karen tu behtar huga.....kyon k QAALO SAMENA WA ATANA kehny waly ko hidayat milti hy......our behes karny se ikhtelaaf hota hy.

(sorry)

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

I don't undestand Urdu/Hindi sis! Could you translate that into english, please?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Nice to hear from you. First off you never replied to my replies to your posts. Should I assume you agreed to them, if not, Why?

Muhammad SAW is the last prophet according to Islam. It would sensible to state that we have not regressed in knowledge but progressed since 7th century Arabia. If something was stated in terms they could understand I am sure can also understand what it meant. I gave you comprehensible explanations yet you failed to reply to them. Very simplistic and realistic explanations that are perfectly valid even in the 21st century. Why didn't you reply?

As if parables carry no meaning and are just an empty string of words. Are you suggesting if something is stated in a parable or language that is not from the 21st century it becomes incomprehensible? Should everything from the 20th century be incomprehensible to us now?

Actually the shooting star is what I replied to, would you kindly go read my reply and reply to it. You were the one who made it sound like it is talking about Stars are missiles whereas i stated that its just drawing a parable of how something can shoot along a trajectory, Stars do it and so do missiles. You were comparing the wrong things i.e. Stars and Missiles, what was to be compared was that both can shoot along a trajectory. Your biggest issue would be to accept this otherwise you will loose this argument and maybe that is what your intention is. My intention is not to win an argument here but simply clarify your mistake. A rational person should be able to accept his mistake. I would if proven to me and I have on this forum when proven such.

Its futile to come and ask for explanations when your mind is already biased and made-up against something.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

067.005 *
*YUSUFALI:* And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire. *
**PICKTHAL:* And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame. *
**SHAKIR:* And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.*

Getting past the remote possibility that God send a meteroids millions of light years across the universe to intercept a devil at the precise moment he is coming to earth to tell his secrets, there are two factual problems with this verse. First, the universe is full of stars (lamps), not just "the lowest heaven". Secondly, shooting stars are not stars (lamps) at all, they are meteroids that are otherwise unseen until they enter the atmoshphere.

The Random Thread
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Actually in the very post that you quoted, I have asked you what sort of a parable " a shooting star shooing away the devils" would be. A parable generally has an inner meaning. No? Also, I felt Seminole’s response to you was adequate and didn’t write a full-length reply.

I 've already said why I didn’t reply.

Precisely. What inner message can a shooting star thrown at jinns have? I can’t see any meaning there.

The verse doesn’t just talk about a shooting star moving along a “trajectory”. It says that it is a missile cast by Allah at devils.

Spare us the advice.:halo: I have given you your reply.

Another point: Come to the point quickly please. Please don’t fill the post with irrelevnt advices, preaching etc.

My question to you is pretty clear: What exactly does the parable of Allah throwing shooting stars as missiles at devils really reprsent.

The Random Thread
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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm


How about I open a new thread on that topic and we'll discuss is there b/c this thread is more focused on the topic of science and Qur'an?


I never said that you are not quoting the verses from the Qur'an. I'm just saying that when you quote the arguments from other website make sure to reference them b/c otherwise it is academic dishonesty as you are plagiarizing. Plagiarism is not only limited to complete copy paste, even using someone's idea is plagiarism.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Ok, lets cut the piggy backing on my discussion with other posters here. This is what you posted:

067.005
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world’s heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/067.qmt.html#067.005

Stars are missiles?

Now here is where you comprehension failed and because you do not understand the vast picture and also because you don’t believe in God to beginwith. Naturally other things will not make sense to you. This verse (as has been explained before in this very thread) is about teh Jinn who aid fortune-tellers. Now if you don’t believe that heaven exists then you will find this french. In our belief heaven exists and has 7 layers. Devils here are Jinns, which again since you don’t belief in God at all, I think you will come back with a reply to me that all this is just a fairy tale. When God commands something, news of it spreads through the heavens and Jinns can reach upto the lowest heaven and hear the commandments. However before they do they are fired upon by shooting stars, similar to how a missile is shot at a target. So the run and come back with incomplete information.

Now this does not imply that the only time a shooting star is seen is because some Jinn just got his arse whipped. Science will definitely be able to explain the phenomenon of HOW a shooting star occurs. I have no doubt in that. It is not suggesting that Stars are literal missiles as we mankind have invented. The parable here is that both get shot at a target, and ofcourse they follow a trajectory, this is inherent with the understanding of how missiles are shot or any other projectile is shot. What I can agree with is that maybe the choice of the word missile may not be the best comparison (could be translated as projectile) but then again if the Arabic word is understood, such problems go away. This is also why its important to read a tafsir of the translation, it is to study the historical context behind a verse and to understand any meaning lost in translation.

Does this affect me in life, barely, and even in the Quran there is very little devoted to this just for informational scope of things and some knowledge of the unseen world.

IMO these are trivial issues for you, we should discuss Aqidah or Creed if you would like.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

So this lower level of heaven is just outside of the earth's atmosphere, 300 miles away? It is obviously not on a physical plain that can be viewed by man. I wonder why the meteroids are?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Don't know. All stars are not at the same level are they? Whats up with the meteroids?

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Shooting stars are not stars, they are meteroids entering the earth's atmosphere. That's why I said the verse is incorrect becauase it says some of the stars (lamps) are made into missles. They aren't.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

No science and quran is not the topic, Actually, I said Quran doesn't allow thinking when hareem01 could not give me a moral justification for burning disbeleivers in hell. So i guess that is the central topic.

[quote]

I never said that you are not quoting the verses from the Qur'an. I'm just saying that when you quote the arguments from other website make sure to reference them b/c otherwise it is academic dishonesty as you are plagiarizing. Plagiarism is not only limited to complete copy paste, even using someone's idea is plagiarism.
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I would happily provide you reference and directly tell you where i got the info from. But if I say my source is islamwatch or FFI, some ppl refuse to even consider what they have to say and launch a tirade against them. Plagiarism is not my intention. Whenever I quoted my sources in debates, I used to get "anything from ****** website is bul***** " kind of answers.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

Additionally they are. Anything entering the earths atmosphere glows and heats up not just meteors.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

And again, as I mentioned that is not the sole reason either.

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Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm

[QUOTE]

What I can agree with is that maybe the choice of the word missile may not be the best comparison (could be translated as projectile)

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That's the word the translator has used.