Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
nor any of such exists as far as I know...
The "surface" is made flat or "atleast" it feels flat due to gravity and the area it takes to go up or down.
It doesn't "feel flat' due to gravity. the earth appears to be flat due to its large radius.
As there is nothing to show that spherical beds were used in Medeival Arabia, we can safely conclude that the Quran thinks the earth is flat.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
[QUOTE]
Sura Al-Kahf (18:86): Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allâh) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
[/QUOTE]
That should settle it. In spherical earth model, there is no fixed place where the Sun sets.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
*067.005 *
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world’s heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/067.qmt.html#067.005
Stars are missiles?
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
Does the Qur'an say that the earth is flat?
Qur’an says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science?
1. Earth made as a carpet
The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:
*"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19 *
But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says:** "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 20 **
A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:
"He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 20, Verse 53 **
The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface
Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.
Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.
3. Earth has been spread out
Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.
**"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 48
Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:
*"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7 *
None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:
*"O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 29, Verse 56 *
Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.
4. Earth is geospherical in shape
The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: *"And we have made the earth egg shaped". The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 79, Verse 30 *
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony.
Dr. Zakir Naik
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
I cannot prove to you anything if you ae not willing to accept it, even if the presented evidence is tangible. None can guide who Allah (SWT) let's go astray.
If he is not accepting then it is the order of Allah as not a single leaf can move against his order in this world!
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
Does the Qur'an say that the earth is flat?
Qur’an says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science? 1. Earth made as a carpet The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh: *"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19 *
But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says:** "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 20 ** A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa: "He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 20, Verse 53 ** The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths. 2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet. Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later. 3. Earth has been spread out Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out. **"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 48 Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse: *"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7 * None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says: *"O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 29, Verse 56 * Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances. 4. Earth is geospherical in shape The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: *"And we have made the earth egg shaped". The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 79, Verse 30 * The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony. Dr. Zakir Naik
read the previous post. The Sun does not set in a prticular place.
079:030
YUSUFALI:And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
PICKTHALL:And after that He spread the earth,
SHAKIR:And the earth, He expanded it after that.
LIAR!
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
take on! OMG!! You can take me on this forum but no swords pistols! LOL.
lol, do not worry my friend we'll discuss it intellectually. What do you want discuss though - Is there a God (if you are an atheist as it seems) or do you want me to debunk your false accusation against Qur'an?
We'll start as soon as you are ready!
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
That should settle it. In spherical earth model, there is no fixed place where the Sun sets.
read the previous post. The Sun does not set in a prticular place.
079:030
YUSUFALI:And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); PICKTHALL:And after that He spread the earth, SHAKIR:And the earth, He expanded it after that.
LIAR!
Doesn't sun always set in the west?
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
Hello Ummm
Now let us not get all worked up here. First you have to realize the terminology and idioms used 14 centuries ago are not the same as words are used today. A lot of the language spoken back then (and not just particularly Arabia) was littered with parables and this is causing you comprehension issues in understanding the Quran. You are interpreting things in a literal modern day language when it was never written as such.
Stars are missiles. If you could understand that there was no concept of a modern day missile back then, what it is refering to is something shot along a trajectory, now what that means in the context of Stars is what you can even observe today i.e. A shooting star.
I hope we can debate with more rationality and understanding of differences in the terminology used centuries ago and that of today.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
That should settle it. In spherical earth model, there is no fixed place where the Sun sets.
Again, when it says where the sun sets, what is meant is the farthest point the naked eye could sight, which would be where the sun is setting and that is true even today. Can you see beyond the point where the sun sets with your naked eye? So the description given in the vese is of the farthest point that could be seen with naked eye and when Dhul Qarnain arrived there. You'll have to first clear your head of some foredrawn conclusions if you want to understand Quran and realize the differences between idiomatic phrases and literal interpretations.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
This is interesting... A Muslim saying someone is "interpreting things in a literal modern day language when it was never written as such" since a majority of things in the scripture, hadith and practice of Islam are taken literally.
Obviously there are things to be interpreted differently today. It is refreshing to hear it from a Muslim.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
This is interesting... A Muslim saying someone is "interpreting things in a literal modern day language when it was never written as such" since a majority of things in the scripture, hadith and practice of Islam are taken literally.
Obviously there are things to be interpreted differently today. It is refreshing to hear it from a Muslim.
But not change the principles. Interpreting as I stated was meant to state that separate the idiomatic phrases from the literal ones.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
And how does one determine which phrases are idiomatic or literal outside of when facts today refute the "idiomatic"?
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
And how does one determine which phrases are idiomatic or literal outside of when facts today refute the "idiomatic"?
Thats where some knowledge and understanding becomes necessary. And a little common sense. When we interpret it in todays literal connotation it should be taken into account whether such a thing even existed in those days or not and then judge. Like the example I had replied to about the Star and Missle that "Ummm" quoted. A little common sense would tell you in 7th century Arabia no one could have known what a modern day missle is and yet we have this person here trying to shoe horn in the modern day concept of a missle into the verse. Now I don't know what you would call it except serious failure of comprehension. Its quite simple it means something that shoots along a trajectory and that would be discerned easily and definitely even earlier than even in 7th century Arabia, would you not agree?
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
This thread is getting interesting.....Two hardcore islamic scholars Vs an atheist......and the weird part is that the atheist seems to be winning and making more sense.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
This thread is getting interesting.....Two hardcore islamic scholars Vs an atheist......and the weird part is that the atheist seems to be winning and making more sense.
I am waiting for the athiest to reply to me, but nowhere in sight.
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
This thread is getting interesting.....Two hardcore islamic scholars Vs an atheist......and the weird part is that the atheist seems to be winning and making more sense.
Wonder how you came to conclude there are scholars here?
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
**WAIT A MINUTE!
you mean the earth is not flat?
**say it aint so
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
*WAIT A MINUTE! *
you mean the earth is not flat?
say it aint so
AT worlds end, we must be ..... UP IS DOWN
Re: Islam promoting thought and false accusations: Att. Ummm
What the Muslim scientists realise or didn't realise doesn't matter. We are talking about the Quran
The consensus among early scholars of Islam, whose knowledge of Classical Fusha Arabic and ability to understand and interpret the actual text of the Quran far surpasses yours (which basically seems to be limited to cutting & pasting decontextualized passages of the Quran from the Faith Freedom International website), was that the earth was of a spherical shape.