"Islam preaches hatred," Franklin Graham

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I was watching the news tonight and to my horror, what do i see? Franklin Graham accusing Islam of being ‘wicked’ and ‘preaching hatred.’( he made these comments on two separate occasions)
i wonder if any of u saw that.
Granted its not the first time a fundamentalist christian like Graham has attacked Islam (im sure we all remember similar comments made by Rev. Fallwell not so long ago) but its appalling to see one of the most ‘respected’ christian leaders in the US preach hatred like that.

éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot’é

[This message has been edited by hk (edited November 16, 2001).]

2

I heard what he was saying. One of his main points is that the God of Islam is not the same God that he and other followers of Judao-christian religions believe in. In my view, this to much extent is true. In general, the Christian God emphasizes his love and his sacrifice for mankind, whereas Allah emphasizes fear of Him and submission to Him.

Most Muslims, just as most Christians have a rosy view of their respective religion. Most Muslims, for example, have never truly studied objectively the teachings of the Quran. Have you noticed how much violence, acceptance of slavery and intolerance is in the Quran? You can see how someone like him can get ideas like the ones he expressed.

People of all non-muslim faiths have reason to fear Islam. Islam truly wants to destroy them or their beliefs. And history supports this fear.

3

[quote]
Have you noticed how much violence, acceptance of slavery and intolerance is in the Quran?
[/quote]

Please always cite examples rather than issue broad statements.

If you call 'fighting back', violence.. yeah sure.. Islam doesn't believe in unreal principles of 'turn the other cheek'.

"those whom your right hand possesses" shouldn't always be translated as 'slavery'

Islam teaches Intolerance for people who use aggression against Allah and oppress HIS people. Personally I'm very intolerant of such people myself, religion or no religion.

This religion is based on 'Justice' and 'Realism' more than being 'Politically Correct' to please everyone's whim and sensitivities du jour.

[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited November 17, 2001).]

4

logic,

you obviously don't have a clue about Islaam.

[quote]
In my view, this to much extent is true. In general, the Christian God emphasizes his love and his sacrifice for mankind, whereas Allah emphasizes fear of Him and submission to Him.
[/quote]

As you said, it's 'your view', and based on ignorance of Religion might i add.

Please, allow me to ask you: why is it that many people are turning away from Christianity and adopting other religions as part of their beliefs? In many cases giving up religion altogether in a 'western trend' of atheism. It is simply becuase everything in Christianity is based on and around 'Love'? With this doctrine, there remains no deterrent for a criminal system, where the evil sinner is free to act as he wills, as there is no religious regulation preventing him for following his desires, because at the end of the day, as a Christian, he will be forgiven foe anything he chooses to do. This is the 'love' Christianity preaches. The whole social system breaks down becuase there is no punishment and there is not fear of punishment. Apart from the ten Commandments, there are no laws to govern a people, let alone a whole nation. Everything is love and love is everything.

This is in contrast to Islaam, where God's laws and regulations have been laid down. If there is a weakness, it is not in the Religion, but in the people who claim to be the followers of Islaam. Not only is there a legal and social system divinely prescribed, but also commandments and advice to prevent one falling into evil, which may not only have a burden on ones self, but also on other human beings. And in order to achieve such a social status and legal order within a Religious umbrella, a balance needs to be struck upon the principles and guidelines of obtaining a just system of integrated rule - love, fear and hope: love of Allaah; hope in His Mercy; and fear of His Punishment.

"God is love!Jesus is Love!" say the Christians, denying the fact that God should be feared too. As for the Jews, then their hearts are filled only with hope - hope in the belief that they will not be punished since they are the "Promised people".

Islaam is not just about fear, as you so wrongly put it. Neither is it solely about love, as it is not about hope alone. But rather, it is a balanced combination of love, fear and hope.

When we realise the bounties and blessings bestowed upon us from God, it increases our love for the Creator, of all that exists, giving us firm acknowledgement and belief in Him. At the same time we fear His Punishment, incase we break the rules by being unjust or oppressing anyone in anyway, including our ownselves. Together with this, we have hope that He will forgive us through His Mercy, as He is:

"The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful." [Soorah Al-Faatihah 1:2]

"So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom shall see it. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom shall see it." [Soorah al-Zalzalah 99: 7-8]

"Oh My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allaah. Indeed Allaah forgives all sins (for those who repent and correct themselves). Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." [Soorah az-Zumar 39:53]

[quote]
People of all non-muslim faiths have reason to fear Islam. Islam truly wants to destroy them or their beliefs. And history supports this fear.
[/quote]

history does not support this claim at all. Where the Muslim nation did actually govern by Islamic laws, noticably during the earlier periods of Islaam, many Christians and Jews lived under Islamic lands free to practice their religion. The Islamic Empire consisted of many religions, not just one. Spain under Islamic Rule is another famous example of a just Islamic government, where non-Muslims were seen flocking into the region for a better way of life.

I suggest that in future before you make comments on a Religion, you read it's book cover-to-cover with an open mind and an intent of a balanced analysis, rather than allow your senses, driven by prejudice and pride, dictate your emotional thoughts.

And remember, love, fear & hope.

"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."

[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited November 17, 2001).]

5

We need a thorough psycho analyzes of Islam. For finding hatred or love in Islamic ideology we do not require a blind faith, but an open mind.
Can Muslims do it? They will have to question the very base of Islam, that is revelation funda of Mohammad Prophet.
Do they have courage to attract the law of blasphemy bravely?

In the very first pages of Quran the Prophet declares that there is no God other than Allah. People believing in some other Gods are paganas, kufirs.
What is strange if a Muslim programmed at a minor age at Madrisa with such blunt thoughts becomes a talebanist?

6

anand,

[quote]
We need a thorough psycho analyzes of Islam. For finding hatred or love in Islamic ideology we do not require a blind faith, but an open mind.
Can Muslims do it?

[/quote]

The question is, are you daring enough to do it? I present you with a challenge ... read the Qur'aan from cover-to-cover with an open mind and in complete sincerity to accept the truth when it comes to you. At the very least, you owe it to yourself to investigate and research a matter which troubles you.

[quote]
Do they have courage to attract the law of blasphemy bravely?
[/quote]

I'm sorry, i didn't quite understand what you meant here.

[quote]
In the very first pages of Quran the Prophet declares that there is no God other than Allah. People believing in some other Gods are paganas, kufirs.
[/quote]

I have to disagree. This statement is incorrect. Again you are speaking from ignorance. Please show me where it says this in the first few pages.

I think you're referring to the shahaadah (testification), the first and most fundamental pilar of Islaam. Eeven so, your translation is very poor. The shahaadah translates as in English:

"I bear witness that there is no God worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad is His servant and final Messenger."

There is an ocean of difference between what you said and the actual statement broght about by the term worthy.

[quote]
What is strange if a Muslim programmed at a minor age at Madrisa with such blunt thoughts becomes a talebanist?
[/quote]

There seems to be a paranoia floating around the world amongst the minds of some. The 'narrow minded' find it difficult to accept that the Religion of all the prophets was not called 'Talebaan'.

Please read the Qur'aan. It seems to me, only then will you realise that Muslims belong to Islaam.

"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."

[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited November 18, 2001).]

7

[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
** Please always cite examples rather than issue broad statements. **
[/quote]

Here you go Jose; there are many more from where it comes from:
i) Women are like field so cultivate it as ye see fit.
ii) Slay the Polytheists (infidels) wherever one may find them.
iii) Stone to Death all homosexuals & adulterers.
iv) Kill all apostates & blasphemers.
v) Amputate the limbs of thieves that steals a loaf to feed his starving family.
vi) Capture and Breed with Slaves as reward for Jihad.

8

Logic User as far as contrasting with Judeo-Christian Principles, please pick up a copy of the old testament and read it.

Frank Graham is a jackass redneck.

9

anad...<>

This is your first empty blister as the Prophet does NOT declare anything in Qura~n. What is there is revealed by Allah (God) Himself. You must have some basic knowledge of what Muslims believe before undertaking to blasphem on our belief system. For people like you, Allah says in Qura~n

"There are illitrate men among them who, ignorant of the Scripture know of nothing but wishful fancies and vague conjectures. Woe to those that write the scripture with their own hands and then declare: 'This is from God', inorder to gain some paltry end. Woeful shall be their fate, because of what their hands have written." (2:77)

10

[quote]
Originally posted by Hasnain:
***logic*,

you obviously don't have a clue about Islaam.
**
[/quote]

Neiter has he a clue about Judaism nor Christianity.

“na maiN* momin vich masiitaa*N, na maiN* muusaa, na fir'aun!”
*

11

faceup,

if you wish to be taken seriously on the Religion forum, please ALWAYS post the Qur'anic reference for your statements.

12

[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
** Neiter has he a clue about Judaism nor Christianity. **
[/quote]

Hasnain, Ali_R,

If the truth came and hit you smack in the head - you would still be in the fog.

The Jews & Christians have long, LONG separated State from Religion. Their states are now called - DEMOCRACY.

Islam combines State & Religion.

[quote]
Originally posted by PakiAbroad:
** if you wish to be taken seriously on the Religion forum, please ALWAYS post the Qur'anic reference for your statements. **
[/quote]

Say Jose,
What do you disagree in my posting?
Please point out to me along with your "personal observations".

13

Friends are angry at my statements.

Allah has said so and so, written in quran thru a massenger delivered by prophet. Thats all.
I challange the revelation theory of the prophet.
Revelations are never possible.

14

What was you watching the media right ok so we know the media has been doing a mass bombardment of attacks on islam since day 1. So what else you expect from this tv programme you expect them say islam is so great no chance. the attacks happened since crusades they call us the barabarians then nothing has changed today maybe today they call us terrorist instead.

15

[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
** Frank Graham is a jackass redneck. **
[/quote]

Yep! He's a Fundamentalist and no different than our Mullahs! Cut from the same cloth .

16

what if idolator lives in a far off island
can their country be invaded and converted
to islam even if they dont pose any danger
to islam or muslims. is there any reference
about this in quaran

17

Anand: you said
"In the very first pages of Quran the Prophet declares that there is no God other than Allah. People believing in some other Gods are paganas, kufirs."

Firstly I'd just like to say that the arabic word "Allah" is a unique word which neither has a masculine or feminine in the arabic language, and it means God. If you go to any country in the middle east you will find that the arab christian also use this word. The God we muslims worship is the same God that you christian worship( I'm assuming that youre a christian, unless u tell me otherwise).
In our religion if any person worship any other object or thing or animal etc is ofcourse a disbeliever, just like you christian would classify us as disbelievers, because we dont believe Jesus (peace be upon him) to be son of God. I really dont understand the point youre making with regards to the comment you have made.

Secondly, please give references when you mention the Quraan for others to verify what you say.

Peace.

18

'logic'user and faceup..im not going to waste my time being reasonable with u two.
Obviously u both dont have a clue what u're talking about. Like the terrorists, u've both taken the words of the Holy Quran out of their context and instead of looking at the whole picture, u're exploiting the Word of God to u're advantage.

Those so-called references to violence that u've cited (as Graham did) were revealed to the Prophet(saw) at a time when Muslims were under attack from non-Muslims...it was at that time, that the Muslims were told to slay the attackers in self-defence. Unjust persecution is not to be tolerated in Islam.
Those ayats were meant for a certain time in history 1400 years ago.
So next time any of u think of copying and pasting lines from the Quran to suit u're purpose, know that u're only spreading ignorance. Now, stick the topic at hand!

Btw...no matter what ignorant people like Graham think Islam preaches, there is no justification for him to attack our faith. What would the justification be for people like logicuser and faceup if he'd attacked Judaism or Hinduism or any other faith in a similar fashion?

éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é

[This message has been edited by hk (edited November 17, 2001).]

19

Lately I’ve heard constant demands from “logical” thinkers for a thorough re-examination of Islam. They claim to see Islam for what it really is, an intolerant barbaric religion, and Muslims are just blindly following it. What I find completely amusing about these people is their lack of perspective, historical in this case. Grant me the right to make certain assumptions here; these rebutters are either Hindus or Christians. Why? Because haven’t Hindus been in constant siege by Muslims of India, and now the onslaught of Muslims against the Christians, right? Simple solutions for simple minds.

[quote]
Christian perpetrators of past crimes were convinced that they were scriptural and divinely guided, in both idea and action, They carried out their duties with dispatch and efficiency. Their records show a meticulous detail for procedure and Biblical "fairness" as they carried out their divine commandments to purify the earth of infidels, heretics, witches, heathens, and intellectuals.
[/quote]

Or hasn’t anyone heard of the Inquisition, witch-hunts and the crusades. Lets take it a bit further, how about Hitler and Napoleon? “Experts” claim that the difference in Islamic Terrorism is that there fanatics use Quran to justify their actions and all other form of terrorism is secular. Well, it wasn’t so when Christianity guided the west, the bible was used to justify horrific acts. Now that the west has become “secular” their terrorism is committed by “individuals” only, funny isn’t it 

As for the Hindus, well simply stated, there is a revision of History going on in India for the past 30 ~ 40 years and they want to whitewash anything and everything that is anti-Muslim. ShivaJi the murderer and plunderer is their hero now. Have they forgotten the Buddhist massacre, Jain outcastings, the Sikh Holocaust or the Babri Masjid? How about the caste system? Female infanticide? These poor young Hindus are in a state of utter and complete confusion about their real history. So their demands of revision of other histories, traditions and religions is understandable in this case.

So please make sure you state your agendas in a disclaimer before you call on Muslims to be realists, because your unreal and polluted view of history is amusing to say the least.

20

WELL SAID !!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

You tell em.