Islam & Intellect

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Is there any role of the Intellect in Islam?

Now, mind you, I speak from my personal views, and **it is clear that for the majority - there is no room for the intellect that questions Islam and critically analyze its teachings!

One may ONLY use the intellect to undertand and FOLLOW what the sriptures dictates.

Follow even if it makes no sense and even if it goes against the norm of civilized behaviour**

Reminder to this affect pops up periodically on this & other boards that To question and or mock the sunnah/hadiths, quran is KUFR!

Orthodox Islam is → HEAR & OBEY!

  1. To critically question & analyze would lead to blasphemy and for that the penalty is SEVERE; it is DEATH!

  2. Critical analysis may make one an apostate because then he/she will want to leave the religion of Islam; and apostasy extracts a heavy price of DEATH by execution!

If allah wished us to follow a flawed law then why did he give us the intellect - the power of reasoning?

Mind you - the majority can NEVER contemplate any flaw in islam but then these are the same people who dare not reason or question or use their intellect!

So, you see - we are all in a very tight bind or up the creek as one popular saying goes!

It is a good thing that I live in the west and not in middle east or Pakistan because I would have already comitted blasphemey and I can hear a mad crowd gathering outside lead by a panchayyat to decide my fate - Death for blasphemy!

2

Do you know that in hard core sects there is only entrance and no exit? First you have to understand this fact and then analyze Islam.

Anyhow the fact is that all religions have nothing to do with intellect. All religions are outcome of fear and fraud disguised behind idealism. Buddhism is an exception, may be, I am not very sure. This is the only a God less religion.

3

Why no answer?

Because it entails thinking - doesn't it?

Come on - let's hear it.

It affects us all.

4

Hafeez123, religion needs faith which in a sense negates the intellect. Once one look at religion with your intellect only, then one is busy with a philoshopical study and it is not "religion" anymore.

5

So, you see - we are all in a very tight bind or up the creek as one popular saying goes!

What do you recommend under the circumstances? How do we get a paddle to navigate the creek we find ourselves in? I am curious, because I think I see the same debate raging in Iran and Turkey at the present moment. It is far more urgent in Iran right now.

6

"Belief without seeing/viewable" goes against "intellect", doesn't it?

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

7

In sharp contrast to the views presented above, i believe that a religion is a balance between intellect and faith. If we all believe that Allah is the creator of everything and that He is running the business of the nature, then we have to believe that intellect must be used to study the aspects of nature for the strengthening of our faith. As Allah has said in Quran:

"In the alteration of night and day, and the water that god sends down from the clouds, with which he revive the earth after its death, and the turning about of winds, there are signs for intellectuals/the wise/those who understand."
(chapter 45, hobbling, verse 6 )

"We have indeed made clear for you, the signs, that haply, you use intellect."
(chapter 57, iron, verse 18)

So, as a matter of fact, we are infact ordered by Allah to use our intellect. Obviously, if we use our intelect for identifying the aspects of nature which prove the existance of Allah, or show any of his 'Sifaat' in practicality, our faith will become strong too. Thus, the use of intellect is a must for strengthening one's faith.

Also, in regards to the teachings of Islam, we must believe that a logic is behind every teaching and instruction given to us. We cannot think even for a moment that the teachings of Allah could be illogical (naoozbillah). Lets look what Quran says in this respect.

Say, "Have you considered those, that you call upon, apart from god? show me, what have created of the earth? or do they have a partnership in the creation of heavens? prove it to me from a book before this, or If you are true, then prove it to me through the logic of remnants of scienctfic/philosophical knowledge."
( chapter 46, the sand dunes, verse 5)

Say: "produce your logic, if you speak truely"
( chapter 27, the ant, verse 65 )

As we see that Allah has asked Prophet Mohammed pbuh to ask the infidels to produce a logic to prove their point. And as Allah is All Just, we cannot think of Him to ask logical proofs from others while his own teachings lack them.

So there is always logic behind every word of Allah and we definately need intellect to understand that. There might be somethings that our intellects may not percieve but a time will come when people will find the logic behind them.

8

You ca’nt live your life without intellect and faith, if you R ordinary normal person

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

9

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**"Belief without seeing/viewable" goes against "intellect", doesn't it?

**
[/quote]

No it doesn't. Some of the highest acheivements of science these days are concepts that cannot be seen or viewed. Very intelligent scientists are having one heck of a time to understand some of the results that intellectual probing of the Universe is throwing up. These concepts deal with entities that can never be viewed or seen. Entanglement at the quantum level is one example, for instance.

10

[quote]
Originally posted by hafeez123:
**Is there any role of the Intellect in Islam?

Now, mind you, I speak from my personal views, and **it is clear that for the majority - there is no room for the intellect that questions Islam and critically analyze its teachings!

One may ONLY use the intellect to undertand and FOLLOW what the sriptures dictates.

Follow even if it makes no sense and even if it goes against the norm of civilized behaviour**

Reminder to this affect pops up periodically on this & other boards that To question and or mock the sunnah/hadiths, quran is KUFR!

Orthodox Islam is --> HEAR & OBEY!

1) To critically question & analyze would lead to blasphemy and for that the penalty is SEVERE; it is DEATH!

2) Critical analysis may make one an apostate because then he/she will want to leave the religion of Islam; and apostasy extracts a heavy price of DEATH by execution!

If allah wished us to follow a flawed law then why did he give us the intellect - the power of reasoning?

Mind you - the majority can NEVER contemplate any flaw in islam but then these are the same people who dare not reason or question or use their intellect!

So, you see - we are all in a very tight bind or up the creek as one popular saying goes!

It is a good thing that I live in the west and not in middle east or Pakistan because I would have already comitted blasphemey and I can hear a mad crowd gathering outside lead by a panchayyat to decide my fate - Death for blasphemy!**
[/quote]

Whoeve posted this thread has certainly forget the numerous ayahs of the quran where Allah(swt) challenges mankind to ponder and think about creation.

"Verily in the Creation of the heavons and earth and the alernation of the day and night there are indeed signs for a people who depth and thinking"

"Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavons and teh earth? Nay they have no firm belief"

So its quite simple, the belief in islam is built by questioning and thinking about our surrondings, so that our belief in Allah(swt) becomes stronger.this is the natural way that a muslims belief is built up by questioning thier envirnoment. (i.e the belief is built upon the intellect)

This also applies to the quran i.e that it is the word of Allah(swt), we reach this conclusion through using the intellect. We can prove this by the fact that Allah(swt) challenged mankind to produce a single chapter like the quran. But no one has been able to produce a single chapter til this day.

oh sorry hafeez gtg il carry this sum other atime

e.i

11

Dear Sadeyes,

I appreciate what you are saying and very impressive as well! But, the point again is, The Quran asks us to REFLECT; encourages us to READ; go to China for knowledge. But, have we really done that or doing that?

We are restricted in all the categories that I cited. The knowledge of China would be classified as Kufr. There is hardly any efforts in the muslim countries to translate literary works or publish their very own; no scientic or technological zeal!

We are a dead nation; severly sapped and incapacitated!

[quote]
from the Old man:
"Hafeez123, religion needs faith which in a sense negates the intellect. Once one look at religion with your intellect only, then one is busy with a philoshopical study and it is not "religion" anymore."
[/quote]

Dear old man,
Fo you think that's what happened to Judaism & Christianity?

Philosophical assessment lead them to can/abrogate states governed by the laws of God; make religion into a personal affair and transfer the governance of the state to secular laws that enforce equal rights and human rights for all.

The Christian & Judaic states - were they governed by the laws derived from their scriptures - would look a lot like the Islamic states.

[quote]
from Clubber:
"So its quite simple, the belief in islam is built by questioning and thinking about our surrondings, so that our belief in Allah(swt) becomes stronger.this is the natural way that a muslims belief is built up by questioning thier envirnoment. (i.e the belief is built upon the intellect)"
[/quote]

Dear Clubber,
If Islam is built upon the intellect, it certainly is not showing in the laws of the sharia or in the muslim ummah! Instead, today the ummah is the most regressive because creative energy has been sapped from the ummah!

There is no honour in having laws that abuse & repress and keep us backward!

[quote]
from Old Lahori:
I am curious, because I think I see the same debate raging in Iran and Turkey at the present moment. It is far more urgent in Iran right now."
[/quote]

Dear Old Lahori,
Frankly, Iran is sitting on a powder keg. Its young population and its intellectual clearly want more freedom and the clergies see that as a threat to the Islamic system and Khatami has been handcuffed!

There have even been rumblings for the son of the late Shah of Iran to be invited to take over!

12

Israel does not have a constitution because it has never been resolved between the secularists and the orthodox components of the society.

I have seen interviews of the Shah's son. He appears to be cultured, well mannered and a class act. His dad had these attributes, too. The question is was the repressive regime encouraged by the USA at the time or was it his choice? It is obvious he is not a conservative Muslim, but more European in character.

13

Hafeez, you seem well informed. Do you know what is going on in Turkey. I have been reading about Ataturk, and how he saved Turkish nationalism and how the last Calipha had to escape on a british ship courtesy of the British. Now there are rumblings of the Islamic party coming back to power. I have been asking these couple of turkish students, but unfortunately they didn't provide any insight. Do you know? Where is the Islamic endevour in Turkey headed?

14

We as Muslism do not put a question mark where our Lord (Allah (swt)) puts a period.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Believers walk by faith, not by sight!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hoonh.gif

15

[quote]
from Old Lahori:
"Hafeez, you seem well informed. Do you know what is going on in Turkey.....Now there are rumblings of the Islamic party coming back to power"
[/quote]

The Islamists will not be allowed into power because the MILITARY holds the real power and the Ruling Generals are hard core secularists plus secular Turkey is a key US ally in its fight against islamic extremism plus Turkey wil never get admitted into the EU which it dsperately needs with an Islamist at the head of its Govt!

Turkey is in Chaos - politically and economically and the Islamic party (can't recall their current name)which used to be called the Virtue Party before it got banned. Their members resurrected under a different party name - is popular and has benefitted from the recent turmoil but is not seen CAPABLE of winning the election! That does exclude it from being a key member in a coalition government!

16

Quran, Surah 25, verse 73:
“And those who, when they are reminded of the revelations of their Lord, follow not deaf and blind thereat”

this is taken from a context wherein Allah describes the qualities of the Believers (starting from verse 63)…

the Believers dont take the revelation blindly, but in many other verses in the Quran, the muslims have been asked to THINK about the religion…

and if u dont have good knowledge of Islam, atleast u shud have read history to see that Muslims r the pioneers of modern science…
the West owes almost everything to Islam and Muslims…

or did u not even take care to think before putting forward such a stupid question

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

17

Dear armughal,

How do you decide when to “REFLECT” and when to “BLINDLY GO” as dictated by the scholars?

Majority follow their Taqleeds which means EMULATE. Everything is laid out for you! YOU do not have to REFLECT, just BLINDLY follow!

BUT, mind you - these Taqleeds were established by scholars based on THEIR understandings of How the prophet followed or would have followed!

And - we all EMULATE those scholars - blindly!

Dear armughal,
Muslims have made conributions in science but that was, what 1100 - 1200 years ago?
Obviously - at that time Islam had the ZEAL to REFLECT, INNOVATE & CONTRIBUTE! How come they cannot anymore?

What has caused this DRY SPELL?

Even if we are VICTIMS of ‘some conspiracy’ that strives to keep us down; what is preventing us from becoming educated, embracing science & technology?

Do the mullahs encourage such things?
They call them anti-Islamic - do they not?

So, is it the Western conspiracy that is keeping us IGNORANT or the DICTATES of the mullahs/Clergies?

I did REFLECT because it is difficult not to!
The end-product of that BLIND EMULATION is right before our eyes, of course, I refer to the muslim ummah!

18

[quote]
Originally posted by hafeez123:
** I did REFLECT because it is difficult not to!
The end-product of that BLIND EMULATION is right before our eyes, of course, I refer to the muslim ummah!

**
[/quote]

The situation of ummah is very complex, there is not short, no single solution and not one root cause of the problem.

Yes, mullahs did severe damage to ummah by regarding "scientific/secular" education as "kufr" which astrayed generations from technology and now we are all suffering from lack of technology etc. But they are not the only ones to blame, we also are to be blamed who accepted their "dictatorship".

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

19

Changez, I post here the words of another brother(S_H_E_I-K) from another thread http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/005547-2.html
:
Allah knows better than us and it is Kufr to deny the Quran and his Sunnah so as Muslims we should be very careful what we disagree with.
PyariCgudia mentioned something about women being just as capable. They probably are. From what i know there isn’t a reason given why women shouldn’t rule, just like Allah doesn’t tell us why we pray 2 rather than 4 rakat Fajr. There is no reason. We just follow it as it is legitimate eveidence.
Also with regards to following hadeeth. Allahs Sunnah is a legitimate reference point and hadeeth that are sahih are to be taken as evidence so regardless of whether women are capable or not, in ruling it is commanded that a woman shouldn’t rule.

I don’t believe that this is the voice of a ‘mullha’ or a dictatorship’s voice. But their is a problem! And I don’t know how to get around it. In the final analysis
Allha’s commands are his commands.

20

hafeez if it is relevent can i ask what madhub u follow

e.i

[This message has been edited by clubber lang (edited August 07, 2002).]