Islam & Intellect

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[quote]
Originally posted by hafeez123:
Dear old man, do you think that's what happened to Judaism & Christianity?

Philosophical assessment lead them to can/abrogate states governed by the laws of God; make religion into a personal affair and transfer the governance of the state to secular laws that enforce equal rights and human rights for all.

The Christian & Judaic states - were they governed by the laws derived from their scriptures - would look a lot like the Islamic states.
[/quote]

There were no states ruled solely as Christian states under a Theocratic government ever. The only time the Israelites were ruled as in a Theocratic state, were before King Saul.

I believe wherever a certain religious group of people are in the majority and if they are earnest with their religion, they will tend to force some part of their religion on the minorities in the country. This go for Christian, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, etc. I doubt if one can say that Judaismic, Christian and Islamitic states will be similar as to governing rules as there are some very clear differences between the religions. For example: Judaism will like to proclaim Saturday as a Sabath, Islam will try and adhere to strict prayer times.

I also believe that whenever someone starts to be too intellectual about religion, they tend to look philoshopical at the religion and would tend to try and fit certain parts of the religion into acceptable present-day ideas. For example, homosexuality or wrong dress code would only be sin for the distant past and they will try and "twist" the religion to accept new concepts because of present situations.

Philosophy/Intellect can be a major enemy of religion.

22

[quote]
Originally posted by clubber lang:
hafeez if it is relevent can i ask what madhub u follow
[/quote]

Sure!
Don't have one! My folks are hanafi!

[quote]
from Old Man
"There were no states ruled solely as Christian states under a Theocratic government ever. The only time the Israelites were ruled as in a Theocratic state, were before King Saul."
[/quote]

You mean there were kingdoms, feifdoms and warlords but they all payed homage to the church, did they not?

[quote]
from Old Man:
"I also believe that whenever someone starts to be too intellectual about religion, they tend to look philoshopical at the religion and would tend to try and fit certain parts of the religion into acceptable present-day ideas. For example, homosexuality or wrong dress code would only be sin for the distant past and they will try and "twist" the religion to accept new concepts because of present situations.

Philosophy/Intellect can be a major enemy of religion."
[/quote]

Dear Old Man,

Religion in the West is now a - Personal matter. I would like to see this happen in the Islamic World as well!

The Church cannot Force you to do anything! It may even not call you a heretic for fear of an intellectual backlash!

Do the church try to enforce the GOSPEL & its laws on homosexuality & homos? Or their Laws on Women ?

No they do not! Because they know some aspects of the Gospel is best if it stays in its time and not be put into practise! You see - Intellect is at work whether you like it or not!

Do you go around preaching the words of the New Testament on matters that are INTELLECTUALLY dated?

People, in the west, would scorn you if you did! Even though the same people may even be regular church-goers!

It is the Intellect again:
Practise your faith as you see it fit. Do not impose your belief upon others!

23

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
Yes, mullahs did severe damage to ummah by regarding "scientific/secular" education as "kufr" which astrayed generations from technology and now we are all suffering from lack of technology etc.

But they are not the only ones to blame, we also are to be blamed who accepted their "dictatorship".
[/quote]

Changez ya'ar,
We all accepted & accept their 'dictatorship' willingly because they represented the truth to us!

Would it be possible for some groups to start a villification campaign against the clergy or to leave the "truth" being taught by the clergies?

You, my friend, knows what happens to those people !

These Clergies will continue to teach what they have been teaching for thousand years!

Look at what's going on with the Madrasa fiasco. Majority know that the curriculum needs to include secular subjects but the mullahs do not want to do it or accept any kind of monitorings either!

24

Hafeez123

Aql (Intellect) in Islam is something that exists at two levels. There is the level of "reason and logic" which is available as an instrument to all mankind, and there is the level of the "universal intellect" to which only a few have reached. Aql is that which connects man to the truth, not the evolving truths of science and self whim but the truth that flows from God and provides the key to all knowledge and all truth.

So the intellect (Aql) is the highest plane of man - it is the noblest part of man - it encompasses reason and logic and it stands above the ego. The Qur'an equates those who go astray with those who cannot (or will not) use their intellect - it uses the phrase 'wa la ya'qilun' (they do not use their intellect) or the phrase 'la yafaqahun' (they comprehend not). Those who do not use their intellect are those who have denied themselves access to one of the highest aspects of their humanity.

Reason is an aspect or reflection of the universal intellect on the psyche of the individual. Reason on the level of individual consciousness is not, however, free of the passions or the ego. It can be an instrument or means to attaining the universal intellect or it can be a veil (when mixed with the passions) that hides one from the divine truths.

Revelation provides a guiding and regulating framework within which reason and logic can find firm footholds to convey man up to the plane of the universal intellect. The verses of the Qur'an become doors to this intellect, and once this intellect is accessed the knowledge of the "Mother of the Book" can be achieved. The storehouses of this knowledge are opened in varying degrees. The person who rises to this level has made the vertical journey and attained to the level of the pure universal intellect and can then become a guide to the people.

In order to have access to the true depth of existence, in order to make the vertical journey (the "ascent of Islam"), in order to achieve understanding of the realities of existence (of all things) one goes inward and thus reaches a plane outside of and above the material plane.

The human intellect is a microcosmic reflection of the universal intellect. When man attains to proper use of his own intellect he is able to move from the level of his own individual intellect to swim in the ocean of the universal (macrocosmic) intellect. Through going inward, He is conveyed upwards and outwards to dizzying heights!

Whether you Believe or Disbelieve is a personal Choice. You are utilising the greatest gift of all.

25

Dear Sholay,
That was pretty good!

But in Orthodox Islam Uusing AQL or Intellect is RESTRICTED to as you put it:

"Aql is that which connects man to the truth, not the evolving truths of science and self whim but the truth that flows from God and provides the key to all knowledge and all truth."

In other words - Use AQL to EMULATE what the scholars have laid out as the truth that has flowed from God!

Somehow, we still believe "all Scholars to be linked with the truth; to deny or question is blasphemey punishable by Death."

So, how does the following applies to Orthodox islam:
"So the intellect (Aql) is the highest plane of man - it is the noblest part of man - it encompasses reason and logic and it stands above the ego".

It doesn't!
What is NOBLE is to HEAR & OBEY!