Re: Islam in Pakistan
That leads to a bigger problem. For someone say to another that "that is not islam" requires an assumption that they know what it is. To know what it is not, presumes that.
There is no denying that OBL and others have a legitimate political grevience. There is little to no debate as to the illigetimacy of *their *tactics. Little - it's clear a line has been crossed. Even OBL seems to back track from time to time, proclaiming it is Haraam to harm innocent women and children.
There is nuance here, but it really doesn't involve Islam, even though that is the basis for the rhetoric in play.
The school of thought at work here is that political necessity trumps moral imperatives. This is NOT unique to Muslims, or Islamic thought. This is clear when an F-16 takes out a village full of innocents. Your "civilized" people would call it "collateral damage". Those of us with no ideological affiliation hear this is an "oops", and visualize a most patronizing shrug following that utterance.
It's intellectually dishonest at best to suggest that any ideolgical framework doesn't suffer from this very problem, or that it's something unqiue to Muslims at this point in history. How a regiment of secularization would help this, or even radical relgiious reforms along western lines needs further elaboration.
Mullahs wouldn't be issuing the blood thirsty fatwas...it'll be media personalities and potlical figures. The speech will be a bit more sophsiticated, and drafted by highly educated people. But only a fool would think the resultant message isn't in fact the same.
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That is why the concept of prescriptive, directive and ideological religion is simply a figment of imagination made up for mullahs imams maulvis islamics islamists jihadis whatever you call yourself, simply to make people give you money, sometimes worse.
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The problem with this conception is that there is no organized body of "mullahdome" which is the sole benificiary of such alleged manipulations of religion. Really, this is a rather still born attempt at projecting something from the European experience with the Church to Islam...it doesn't work.
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1) define itself thru updated modern day ways, including language that ppl understand.
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Which people? I understand it perfectly fine as it is.
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2) It has to give up untenable, silly and downright uncivilized practices such as polygamy, the concept of "allowed / not allowed' references and judgemental fatwas, the concept of kufir, the concept of "one single way to practice and yes, even the concept of religion over state. State law is unequivocallly superior to sharia. It has to proclaim that
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State law will incorporate religious law, so there need not be a hierarchal relation between the two. Unless one presumes that religion must be personal...but that's an imposition, and not a universally held position.
Concepts of polygamy or what not dwindle naturally, and it's foolish to think it's either a pressing concern, or somehow an "issue" that needs to be addressed. Kufir is what it is...how is it any different than "non-Muslim"? Or a "gentile"?
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3)No amount of change will enable survival unless thinking, freedom of speech and education (real, not rote recitation of quran) are stressed
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Misleading. All thought within any tradition is constrained by some bounds. Not being able to question free speech is a constraint, for example. Change to what end? What's silly is to expect the religious to embrace change that only benefits the irreligious.
Education is key, indeed. The rest is ideolgical rubbish....
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I don't thinlk muslims really comprehend how bad it has become. Radical surgey required.
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EVERY Muslim and their pet parrot *only *seems to bicker at how bad it's become....that things are bad is very well known. The so-called solutions thrown about are always a kicker....and end up being anything but.
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- islam is not a country. Why would any arguement you develop with that upfron erroneous hypothesis go anywhere? My point abt sharia and kufr is that unless you're prepared to say that all people of a country have to be muslims, you cannout have a muslim code as the nation's law.
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Not really...what you need is a uniform law. Applying Shariah on non-muslims is in every way analogous to enforcing Secular laws over Muslims, or those who dont' recognize the legitimacy of those laws. Secular legal systems have little to no concern over Muslim sentiments, so how is it somehow wrong if Muslims reciprocate?
Regardless of the legal system...you neither have to believe in the ideological or philosophical foundations of the law, nor even agree with the laws themselves. You simply need to obey them. Period. That's not optional.
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- I really don't care about how and why the practice of polygamy started. I'm interested in eradicating this becauise it is an uncivilized and eternal satement that women are less because of gender. And islam / muslims are the biggest practiotioners of this barbaric thing at present.
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How so? One could very well argue you're simply a victim of internalized racism. It's not a mandatory practice. All evidence suggests that those who are involved in such relationships consider it "normal" with respect to their own cultural norms. It's quite hypocritical on one hand to beoman Muslims imposing their values and mores on others, and you arguably doing the same in the name of your own value system - steeped in demonizing terminology as it is.