Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

[diwana]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@phoenixdesi

forget abt me...i am a useless case after being raised in Pak ...after being raised on premiss such as qabar kay azab say dar, be scared of hell's fire....or do nice if you want 70 hoors in jannah (well for me that was the only reason to do anything good in my life....we have some serious shortage of good looking hoors in Pak and i for one wont mind 70 of them ;))

as for laws, all these godless countries do have laws my friend...and people obey them.....but i was talking about character-building for kids when they are very young...how do people raise their kids in japan, china, korea or Scandinavian countries where there is no concept of divinity, god .... kabiee socha hai?

You do know your views and thoughts are not new to a whole lot of people and these have been discussed so much they have lost the charm?

You have a very superficial thinking I must say and sorry if it comes out in bad way.

I never said only divinity concept is needed to be good but it does help. But you seem to completely disregard that.

All these countries do have laws to deter bad people. And these laws are implemented and security, education and prosperity helps create the environment which makes people follow the rules. I already said Pakistan needs these to be implemented.

By the way, you have seen when blackout happens and electricity goes out, even the 'civilized' people start stealing things out of shops or do other crimes.

You wouldn't need traffic lights, police, courts, prisons, security cameras and security guards at the banks if people were so angelic intrinsically. One of the deterrent **and **encouraging source for people to be good is concept of divinity and afterlife results.

[diwana]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

And what's wrong with players, singers, actors choosing to live the way they want?

Is that really so bad?

[Med911]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…

@phoenixdesi

now you can hate Nadeem paracha but he usually has pretty astute observations ..the one mentioned in this article is so true…something i have been saying for a while…yes taliban and Islamic militants are a big problem but then we have a different kind of cultural problem as well and that is the radicalization of our middle class and upper class society to its core…with very little to no room left for any neutrality or secularism…that is the key, with very little to no room left for any neutrality or secularism.

this is the most dangerous and disappointing fact…i mean what is the biggest difference between India and Pakistan…if you ask me, it is the middle class makeup…indian middle class is relatively progressive and secular (but too pro-indian and nationalistic to the level that it gets annoyingly stupid and yes it is still anti-Pakistan for most part unfortunately) whereas Pakistani middle class is extremely religious-minded and conspiracy-driven…

Smokers

The incessant religiosity in Pakistan is maddening. its constant and overwhelming.

[Amal]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@muqawwee123

People like Paracha have per-concieved ideas about the society and everything related to it.

If you read him twice in your entire life, you will know what kind of a guy he is. He has a paranoiac view of the society and sees everything through the smoke of his cigarettes. I therefore do not go to the 'Smokers' Corner'.

[Med911]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@Ali_Syed

If some one wants to follow Islam in his personal life, Paracha should be least concerned (seeing his credentials of a self proclaimed secularist).

The issue is that people DONT keep it personal. They make it public and the scream from the top of their lungs, LOOK LOOK im a Muslim! Islam Islam Islam!

Calm down people.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@Amal

If you read him twice in your entire life, you will know what kind of a guy he is. He has a paranoiac view of the society and sees everything through the smoke of his cigarettes. I therefore do not go to the 'Smokers' Corner'.

Paracha ke liye Lata ji ne kaha tha: Jhoot bole kawwa kaate, kale kawwe se dariyo

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@Amal

If you read him twice in your entire life, you will know what kind of a guy he is. He has a paranoiac view of the society and sees everything through the smoke of his cigarettes. I therefore do not go to the 'Smokers' Corner'.

so which corner do you go to..just curious

[Med911]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@Amal

If you read him twice in your entire life, you will know what kind of a guy he is. He has a paranoiac view of the society and sees everything through the smoke of his cigarettes. I therefore do not go to the 'Smokers' Corner'.

If you speak to any average Pakistani living in Pakistan, twice in your life, you will see the problem with the people there in general. They have a paranoid view of the world, and will make up crazy conspiracy theories to explain away everything from the weather to the growing extremism in the county, or be in complete denial.

Paracha is one of the few Pakistanis left who isnt completely delusional.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@diwana

And what's wrong with players, singers, actors choosing to live the way they want?

Is that really so bad?

nothing wrong....they can do whatever they want..except they take it to next level..

ali azmat will suddenly become a history and economics scholar explaining foreign policy issues based on conspiracy driven theories borrowed from zaid hamid....

junaid jamshed will be promoting 40-day chillas to everyone.....just go meet him sometime and he will try convincing you to leave everything behind and go for 40-day chilla...!

mohammaed yousaf will destroy his career , will stop practicing, put on weight and will keep on insisting to be selected without performance...he will have time for chillas but no time to do his duty as a cricketer....

i mean the list simply goes on....and one just says...what losers!

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@muqawwee123

Paracha ke liye Lata ji ne kaha tha: Jhoot bole kawwa kaate, kale kawwe se dariyo

that is complete discrimination....I am as kala as a kawaa too!

[diwana]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…

@phoenixdesi

nothing wrong…they can do whatever they want..except they take it to next level..

ali azmat will suddenly become a history and economics scholar explaining foreign policy issues based on conspiracy driven theories borrowed from zaid hamid…

junaid jamshed will be promoting 40-day chillas to everyone…just go meet him sometime and he will try convincing you to leave everything behind and go for 40-day chilla…!

mohammaed yousaf will destroy his career , will stop practicing, put on weight and will keep on insisting to be selected without performance…he will have time for chillas but no time to do his duty as a cricketer…

i mean the list simply goes on…and one just says…what losers!

But all those are your biased ideas.

You think that being religious is same as being conspiracy theorist or delusional.

If someone is promoting chilla or doing chilla and does not want to play cricket (destoying his career) on his own will etc. then what is wrong with that?
**
Their lives, their choices. **

Why should they live according to your ideas? I think you are being intolerant here.

Since when cricket become a duty?

[muqawwee123]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@phoenixdesi

nothing wrong....they can do whatever they want..except they take it to next level..

ali azmat will suddenly become a history and economics scholar explaining foreign policy issues based on conspiracy driven theories borrowed from zaid hamid....

junaid jamshed will be promoting 40-day chillas to everyone.....just go meet him sometime and he will try convincing you to leave everything behind and go for 40-day chilla...!

mohammaed yousaf will destroy his career , will stop practicing, put on weight and will keep on insisting to be selected without performance...he will have time for chillas but no time to do his duty as a cricketer....

i mean the list simply goes on....and one just says...what losers!

I don't know about others, but Junaid Jamshed only stopped singing songs (I don't personally liked this), but he didn't cut himself from the world and still running successful business and earning more than when he was a singer

[muqawwee123]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@phoenixdesi

that is complete discrimination....I am as kala as a kawaa too!

I'm sorry you can't do much in this case. The lyricist is nor more

[queer]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

well if the country has its original identity in religion, it would be pretty hard to define a separate secular identity if it didn't already exist. sucks for the liberals, but those are your ground rules. :P

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…

@muqawwee123

it was mixed crowd ranging from beard men and women in Abayas to teens in jeans and t shirts.

I first went to an Irani publisher and asked for Khutbaat e hazrat e Zainab. They said they don’t have such book. I bought a biography of Hazrat e Zainab and a book on origin and early development of Shia Islam.

I was astonished to see that people were still buying Naseem Hijazi’s historical fiction. A guy in his late 20s was bargaining for ‘Qafila e Hijaz’ and a man in his 60s was telling his friend in Sindhi that I read his books, when I didn’t have beard

On Sindhi book stall ( 3-4 publishers sharing the space), I bought around 12-13 books from biographies of Shaikh Ayaz to history of Forts in Sindh and the origin of Sindhi idioms. There I found a Sindhi channel taking interviews of the visitors. A person asking for a book in respect of castes and tribes living in Sindh. A lady asking for Shah jo Risalo.

On Academy of Literature, they had special editions of their magazines on Amrita Pritam and Josh Malih Abadi, who are by no chance right wingers. When I picked Amrita Pritam book, an uncle in his 60s came and said to me in Sindhi ‘you seem to have same liking of literature as I have. I saw you at Sindhi publishers. He asked me whether I write or not and then started encouraging to write’

The most crowded stall was Liberty in the same hall, which also have Dawa publishers and Tanzeem e Islami selling books of Dr Israr Ahmed at 50% discount. At liberty I found youngsters in search of latest biographies of Fatima Bhutto and Aamir Khan. There I found novels like ‘geometry of God’ and ‘Sparrows of Afghanistan’.

At the end of the day, I came with books ranging from biography of Hazrat Zainab to autobiography of secular Shaikh Ayaz whose books were banned during Ayub regime for alleged propaganda against Islam.

So now where does this Paracha stand for this propaganda?

Brother that man encouraged you to write..and you did that…

Actually this post of your seems like from a book…:k:

[muqawwee123]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…

@ninja_hattori

Brother that man encouraged you to write..and you did that…

Actually this post of your seems like from a book…:k:

The man was actually a poet and told me that his father used to say ’ hum iss duniya main khana khane nahin aae, apna naam globe pe likhwane aaye hain’. He said if you have talent then use it and convey your message through writing. I said i don’t have passion for commercial writing, but he kept on insisting to write.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@queer

well if the country has its original identity in religion, it would be pretty hard to define a separate secular identity if it didn't already exist. sucks for the liberals, but those are your ground rules. :P

that is the fundamental problem.....if we become secular, we lose our ideological basis on which Pakistan movement was based....and if we remain "ideological religious" with our constitutional, social and judicial roots deeply entrenched in religion , we become a laughing stock!..in today's world there is absolutely no space for these ideas and such way of life....plus in human history there is no period where religious-based doctrine and associated government excelled for a long period of time...

[kakaballi]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@phoenixdesi

that is the fundamental problem.....if we become secular, we lose our ideological basis on which Pakistan movement was based....

I agree with your thoughts about Pakistani society being too 'religious' or for me practices religion on a superficial level. However, I would disagree with you in this post.

Pakistan movement was not based on religious grounds. It was based on political idea that Muslims being a political minority might have their rights suppressed by non-Muslim majority in united India. You can agree or disagree with the sanity of this idea but Pakistan was not supposed to be a Muslim country but rather a country comprising geographical areas where Muslims were in Majority. A secular Pakistani government would not be in conflict with this idea.

@phoenixdesi

....plus in human history there is no period where religious-based doctrine and associated government excelled for a long period of time...

I would say the opposite here too. In history, most of the governments in greatest empires used religion as one of the major tools of governance and to justify their supremacy over 'masses'. Religion very much part of lives and government of almost all the greatest empires of the past. The idea of 'separation of church and state' is relatively new if you are considering the time scale of 'human history'.

As far as NFP is concerned, I agree with him a little. For the most part, he wants to propagate 'progressive' ideas and I agree with those ideas but he does that through ridicule, exaggeration, going overboard and often inventing false stories to get his message through. If you want a 'secular' kind of environment where you do not want 'other' people to usurp your civil rights, you should also listen to a big chunk of people who want religion to be a big part of their own lives. Why would you want to infringe on their rights to propagate and protect their own ideas (as long as they do not hurt anyone else)? Why do you bother with religious books being in demand at the book stalls if you yourself have not produced anything that is worth reading? Aren't you going against your own secular ideas when you ridicule someone with a beard? You cannot really expect thinking of a majority of people to change over-night. It came in over decades and would go away over decades. Meanwhile, you must tolerate religious people as long as they do not harm you.

If 20% of the people think that ban on alcohol in a country is wrong and 80% think (based on cultural or religious thinking) the ban is good for the society, how should a secular government react? Where do you draw a line when the question of 'social good' is involved? Where do my personal rights end and 'social good' starts? Very difficult to draw the line.

[Med911]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...

@queer

well if the country has its original identity in religion, it would be pretty hard to define a separate secular identity if it didn't already exist. sucks for the liberals, but those are your ground rules. :P

Sad isnt it... If only Jinnah had lived a few more years, perhaps things would have ben different. The beards might not have gotten the microphone had he stuck around.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…

@kakaballi

I agree with your thoughts about Pakistani society being too ‘religious’ or for me practices religion on a superficial level. However, I would disagree with you in this post.

Pakistan movement was not based on religious grounds. It was based on political idea that Muslims being a political minority might have their rights suppressed by non-Muslim majority in united India. You can agree or disagree with the sanity of this idea but Pakistan was not supposed to be a Muslim country but rather a country comprising geographical areas where Muslims were in Majority. A secular Pakistani government would not be in conflict with this idea.

.

well what you are saying may very well be correct from historical standpoint (and i completely endorse and support your version), it is definitely not something that we taught to our generations…Pakistan ka Matlab Kya لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّه](http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pakistan-ka-Matlab-Kya-لَآ-إِلَـٰهَ-إِلَّا-ٱللَّه/116709258379909)is what we promoted among our masses after jinnah’s death…we were just waiting for jinnah’s death and as soon as that happened, the objective resolution was passed with blessings from Molana Mododiddi…today if you try to tell common pakistanis your version of “why we created paksiatan”, you may get killed my friend!