now you can hate Nadeem paracha but he usually has pretty astute observations ..the one mentioned in this article is so true…something i have been saying for a while…yes taliban and Islamic militants are a big problem but then we have a different kind of cultural problem as well and that is the radicalization of our middle class and upper class society to its core…with very little to no room left for any neutrality or secularism…that is the key, with very little to no room left for any neutrality or secularism.
this is the most dangerous and disappointing fact…i mean what is the biggest difference between India and Pakistan…if you ask me, it is the middle class makeup…indian middle class is relatively progressive and secular (but too pro-indian and nationalistic to the level that it gets annoyingly stupid and yes it is still anti-Pakistan for most part unfortunately) whereas Pakistani middle class is extremely religious-minded and conspiracy-driven…
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
^thats not entirely true, the Indian middle class is also supporter of right wing fanatics, for example the support Gujarats modi receives from them.
well Pak and India are big countries, so obviously there will be exceptional segments but my comment was more broad-based... to reflect the general trend of middle class societies in both countries
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
one more thing....one can call me pessimistic for postings such articles but I have my own vision for Pakistan...I want Pak which is completly secular at the state level where religion should not be interfering with anything.. and certainly not interfering with our constitution, with our courts, with our bureaucracy and with our armed forces ... religion shd be part of our society but at a a very personal level....so obviously my comments and posts refelct my vision... but that does not mean I am being negative abt Pak....
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…
Mr paracha is that much liar 70% of the books were on religious topic is the biggest lie. I myself went there and wanted to write something about the trend.. but my point of view is totally different than this biased Paracha. Out of more than 100 book stalls there were no more than 10 religious publishers (which obviously attracted a crowd), but 90% of the book stalls were selling non-religious books ranging from political biographies to books of writers like Gulzar, Amarta pritam, etc.
He could see a small stall selling religious Cds to children, but could not locate the children stuff at Liberty stall. I just hate this fake secular Paracha
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
one more thing....one can call me pessimistic for postings such articles but I have my own vision for Pakistan...I want Pak which is completly secular at the state level where region should not be interfering with anything.. and certainly not interfering with our constitution, with our courts, with our bureaucracy and with our armed forces ... religion shd be part of our society but at a a very personal level....so obviously my comments and posts refelct my vision... but that does not mean I am being negative abt Pak....
you need to concentrate on indian politics, US politics, Ghanian politics, even Mexican politics. you are bad for us (pakistanis) just start walking and dont look back. thank you
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
one more thing....one can call me pessimistic for postings such articles but I have my own vision for Pakistan...I want Pak which is **completly secular at the state level **where region should not be interfering with anything.. and certainly not interfering with our constitution, with our courts, with our bureaucracy and with our armed forces ... religion shd be part of our society but at a a very personal level....so obviously my comments and posts refelct my vision... but that does not mean I am being negative abt Pak....
First you brought an article written by a biased person.
Then you tried to compare middle class population of India with Pakistan without any solid evidence to back that up.
Paracha type people have no interest in knowing the sentiments of a larger population of Pakistan. They have no idea of basis of Pakistan and all they do is make issues out of non-issues.
I would repeat here: For Pakistani people, secularism or religious based laws are not the priority and those who keep talking about system change all the time actually are NOT doing any favor to Pakistan.
One can easily argue that there is not enough religion in the minds of people and fear of afterlife that is the root cause of many problems in Pakistan.
But, It is the implementation of laws, promotion of good education, and self reliance on technology etc. which is needed in Pakistan.
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…
i wont challenge your comment… NFP has been blamed in the past for being too biased and one dimensional..so i am not surprised…although I am little surprised that both of you differed so much…he said 8 out of 10 were religious bookstalls and you are saying 9 out of 10 were non-religious..can any other kaarchi guppy weigh-in who happened to be at the stall?
also can you please reflect on general make-up of the crowd…proportionately speaking, too many abays and beards?
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…
it was mixed crowd ranging from beard men and women in Abayas to teens in jeans and t shirts.
I first went to an Irani publisher and asked for Khutbaat e hazrat e Zainab. They said they don’t have such book. I bought a biography of Hazrat e Zainab and a book on origin and early development of Shia Islam.
I was astonished to see that people were still buying Naseem Hijazi’s historical fiction. A guy in his late 20s was bargaining for ‘Qafila e Hijaz’ and a man in his 60s was telling his friend in Sindhi that I read his books, when I didn’t have beard
On Sindhi book stall ( 3-4 publishers sharing the space), I bought around 12-13 books from biographies of Shaikh Ayaz to history of Forts in Sindh and the origin of Sindhi idioms. There I found a Sindhi channel taking interviews of the visitors. A person asking for a book in respect of castes and tribes living in Sindh. A lady asking for Shah jo Risalo.
On Academy of Literature, they had special editions of their magazines on Amrita Pritam and Josh Malih Abadi, who are by no chance right wingers. When I picked Amrita Pritam book, an uncle in his 60s came and said to me in Sindhi ‘you seem to have same liking of literature as I have. I saw you at Sindhi publishers. He asked me whether I write or not and then started encouraging to write’
The most crowded stall was Liberty in the same hall, which also have Dawa publishers and Tanzeem e Islami selling books of Dr Israr Ahmed at 50% discount. At liberty I found youngsters in search of latest biographies of Fatima Bhutto and Aamir Khan. There I found novels like ‘geometry of God’ and ‘Sparrows of Afghanistan’.
At the end of the day, I came with books ranging from biography of Hazrat Zainab to autobiography of secular Shaikh Ayaz whose books were banned during Ayub regime for alleged propaganda against Islam.
So now where does this Paracha stand for this propaganda?
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
I would repeat here: For Pakistani people, secularism or religious based laws are not the priority and those who keep talking about system change all the time actually are NOT doing any favor to Pakistan.
One can easily argue that there is not enough religion in the minds of people and fear of afterlife that is the root cause of many problems in Pakistan.
.
well we had this discussion on another forum...you don't need to build character by thinking of afterlife...that is the worst way of building character as it is based on fear...
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
But, It is the implementation of laws, promotion of good education, and self reliance on technology etc. which is needed in Pakistan.
sure but as a nation that is not our focus.....our educated elites, our cricketers, our singers, our actors.....all these public figures who can impact masses are more busy spending time with tableeghi jamat on 40 days chilla or women going to schools called Al huda...
why dont you answer one question.... are you suggesting that we as a nation are "less radicalized' and "more tolerant" than what we were in 60s/70s?
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
sure but as a nation that is not our focus.....our educated elites, our cricketers, our singers, our actors.....all these public figures who can impact masses are more busy spending time with tableeghi jamat on 40 days chilla or women going to schools called Al huda...
why dont you answer one question.... are you suggesting that we as a nation are "less radicalized' and "more tolerant" than what we were in 60s/70s?
Don't you think that more and more crowd attracted toward Islamic schools like Al-Huda is the direct result of propaganda that is being spread by west. Whats the harm if people want to know about their religion?
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
well we had this discussion on another forum...you don't need to build character by thinking of afterlife...that is the worst way of building character as it is based on fear...
Then you should live in a country or build a place which has no laws. You will not have any fear of laws. :)
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
sure but as a nation that is not our focus.....our educated elites, our cricketers, our singers, our actors.....all these public figures who can impact masses are more busy spending time with tableeghi jamat on 40 days chilla or women going to schools called Al huda...
why dont you answer one question.... are you suggesting that we as a nation are "less radicalized' and "more tolerant" than what we were in 60s/70s?
Depends what you mean by radicalized. and I wouldn't drag whole nation in to one generalized term as being radicalized.
I see your views and Paracha's article as full of generalization and biased.
**
No one but a psychiatrist can help people who are allergic to abaya and beard.**
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives…
many thx..so nice of you and this was indeed very helpful and obviously in contrast with what NFP was telling us…
i would however not discount everything what NFP is saying as it is quite possible that his expectations of a true book fair would be along the lines one would expect in an international book fair with very little focus on religion and much more on literature, history, foreign affairs, social sciences etc… but obviously in pakistan we will see a relatively competitive mix…in other words what was an unbalanced version for NFP was a balanced version for you…and i can totally understand it. it happens all the times in countries like Pakistan where we live in dichotomies.
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
Then you should live in a country or build a place which has no laws. You will not have any fear of laws. :)
forget abt me...i am a useless case after being raised in Pak ...after being raised on premiss such as qabar kay azab say dar, be scared of hell's fire....or do nice if you want 70 hoors in jannah (well for me that was the only reason to do anything good in my life....we have some serious shortage of good looking hoors in Pak and i for one wont mind 70 of them ;))
as for laws, all these godless countries do have laws my friend...and people obey them.....but i was talking about character-building for kids when they are very young...how do people raise their kids in japan, china, korea or Scandinavian countries where there is no concept of divinity, god ....
kabiee socha hai?
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
many thx..so nice of you and this was indeed very helpful and obviously in contrast with what NFP was telling us....
i would however not discount everything what NFP is saying as it is quite possible that his expectations of a true book fair would be along the lines one would expect in an international book fair with very little focus on religion stuff and much more on literature and history... but obviously in pakistan we will see a relatively competitive mix....in other words what was an unbalanced version for NFP was a balanced version for you...and i can totally understand it. it happens all the times in countries like Pakistan where we live in dichotomies.
People like Paracha have per-concieved ideas about the society and everything related to it. He said he never visited this fair and after eight years visited the fair and could not find any secular stuff (except stall by MQM). I told you what I myself purchased and I even saw people asking for Shorish kashmiri's book 'Uss Bazar main' a book on the lives of people living in Red-Light area and books on Tagore's poetry and music.
Re: Islam hee Islam for men, women, boys, girls, wives, husbands and more wives...
Depends what you mean by radicalized. and I wouldn't drag whole nation in to one generalized term as being radicalized.
I see your views and Paracha's article as full of generalization and biased.
**
No one but a psychiatrist can help people who are allergic to abaya and beard.**
there you go..no answer of my question...rather called me a psycho...case closed ... end of discussion:D
70% of the books were on religious topic is the biggest lie. I myself went there and wanted to write something about the trend.. but my point of view is totally different than this biased Paracha. Out of more than 100 book stalls there were no more than 10 religious publishers (which obviously attracted a crowd), but 90% of the book stalls were selling non-religious books ranging from political biographies to books of writers like Gulzar, Amarta pritam, etc.
