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Originally posted by logical:
I notice you like to talk about SLAVERY.
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Ibrahim says; hmm..I wonder If that is all that you noticed or maybe you found it the best angle to argue depending on your intention. ( Allah (swt) know best)
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Originally posted by logical:
Care to enlighten us about SLAVERY in our Islam.
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Ibrahim says: I guess you want us to believe that you are Muslim, so be it! but your statements shows that you lack knowledge hence
Read what Islam teaches before you make a mockery of yourself…………
Qur'an 2:177 Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in God and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, ** and to set slaves free; ** and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.
Qur'an: Surah 90 Al-Balad (The City)
Nay, I swear by this city... We verily have created man in an atmosphere... But he hath not attempted the Ascent, Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Ascent is! ** It is to free a slave, ** And to feed in the day of hunger, An orphan near of kin, Or some poor wretch in misery. And to be of those who believe and exhort one another to perseverance and exhort one another to pity.
Qur'an 24:27-34 Surah An-Nur (Light)
** And such of your slaves as seek a writing of emancipation, write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of God which He hath bestowed upon you. ** Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, Lo! God will be Forgiving, Merciful...
Qur'an 5:89 Surah Al Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
God will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which ye swear in earnest. The expiation thereof is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith ye feed your own folk, or the clothing of them, ** or the liberation of a slave, ** and for him who findeth not (the wherewithal to do so) then a three day fast. This is the expiation of your oaths when ye have sworn; and keep your oaths...
Need more ??? Here read!
58:3 But those who divorce their wives by Zihar then wish to go back on the words they uttered (it is ordained that such a one) ** should free a slave ** before they touch each other: this are ye admonished to perform: and Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.
There are more…try and find out, before you end up making unsound comments like below.
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Originally posted by logical:
You are aware that Slavery is a valid Sharia'h under Islam. It never got abrogated as who could abrogate the word of Allah.
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Ibrahim says; Here is where you exposed yourself, either you are a hindu or a non Muslim trying to spread your ignorance. I feel sorry for you But I hope you will learn some time soon.
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Originally posted by logical:
Sure, Quran talks about freeing the slaves but one has to have/own slaves to free them.
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Ibrahim says; Have you any idea as to where and whom and at what time frame the Qur’an was revealed to? THINK !!! and THINK hard.
The middle east people were the original people who had received the message from Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) aka Brahma in Hinduism . Yet although all of this world had practiced Prophet Ibrahim’s teachings it got corrupted even in Arabia as generations passed/evolved/progressed. What remains of that corrupted teachings is what the hindus are holding on to as the veda and currently called Hinduism.
Hence the Arabs were practicing slavery in those days prior to the establishing of Islam just as the hindus were and are doing to this day with the dalits . That is why the message was removed from the Arabs and revealed to the Jews, after the revelation was revealed to the Jews and they too failed in keeping it intact , the message was reestablished through the final Prophet to the Arabs again, as prophesied (which appears in the hindu scriptures too)
Hence slavery was abolished gradually in Islam , similar to alcohol being abolished in Islam, for this are matters that had been practiced and accepted by the community and will take time to eradicate . hence the message was given over and over again ( as quoted above) that slavery was Not the way and slaves should be treated with kindness and it was better not to have them.
Here again the term slavery includes bonded labor and laborers who lived and worked for food and lodging . Thus at those times, there was no such term as employment or employee hence workers were generally called “slave” and employers were called masters.
So Please get educated before you try to compare or measure things with the same yard stick, not knowing what were ancient practices and how they are to be measured or understood.
Now let me educate you as to what was the practice in ancient times
HINDUISM & SLAVERY (BY CASTE) ( actual verse as appearing in hindu scared scripture)
"(The king) should make a Vaisya engage in trade, lend money, farm the land, or keep livestock; and (he should make) the Sudra the slave of the twice-born. A Brahmin should out of mercy support both a Ksatriya and a Vaisya if they are starved for a livelihood, and have them carry out their own innate activities. But if a Brahmin, out of greed and a sense of power, makes twice-born men who have undergone the transformative rituals do the work of slaves against their will, the king should make him pay a fine of six hundred (pennies). ** He may, however, make a Sudra do the work of a slave, whether he is bought or not bought; for the Self-existent one created him to be the slave of the Brahmin. Even if he is set free by his master, a Sudra is not set free from slavery; ** for since that is innate in him, who can take it from him?
Ibrahim says; HENCE until the Qur’an was revealed these people (hindus) , Arabs and globally all people had practiced slavery without any pity or release from slavery since it was believed to be commandment for the Brahmins (believers) .
Lets continue the passage, to understand the kind of definition slavery referred to ………….
** There are seven ways that slaves come into being: **
1) taken under a flag (of war),
2) becoming a slave in order to eat food,
3) born in the house,
4) bought,
5) given,
6) inherited from ancestors,
7) or enslaved as a punishment.
Ibrahim says; hence this is why Arabs had slaves in the first place and it was an accepted practice in those days. Now, take note , those taken in war (No: 1), enslaved as a punishment (No:7) cannot be released easily, unless there have fulfilled a certain commitment or have been seen to be of good moral conduct and can be trusted. This is like having prisoners of war and criminals under your care ( since there was no jail or penal system slavery was the only solution in those days)
** Those becoming a slave in order to eat ( No: 2) are actually “employees” or workers in out current context but in those times they were all considered slaves . **
Those who were bought, would be the slaves that you may be arguing about and have knowledge about in our current time frame.
anyway lets continue this passage…………..
A wife, a son, and a slave: these three are traditionally said to have no property; whatever property they acquire belongs to the man to whom they belong. A Brahmin may with confidence take away any possession from a Sudra; for since nothing at all can belong to him as his own, his property can be taken away by his master. (The king) should make the Vaisya and the Sudra carry out their own innate activities diligently; for if the two of them should slip from their own innate activities, they would shake this universe into chaos." -- Manusmrti 8:410-418.
Ibrahim says Hence it was because of Islam, Slavery was abolished in this planet but those who practiced it after the Prophet had gone astray in the sense that they bought or enslaved others. ( Muslims too can go astray and that is why there is hell and heaven)
** But those who had workers ( also called salves at that time frame) had done nothing wrong in Islam or otherwise for the term slave applied to bonded workers and workers too. **
so wake up !!!
Snipped the rest of your unsound remarks made out of ignorance.