Islam and "Pants Shirt"

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

OK maybe using the word Uniformwas a wrong choice, I should've said dress code

Timepass -September 2012
22

i think its a very nice dress BUT its not Islamically prescribed. The policy of restricting clothes to that of a particular culture sends exactly the wrong message about the religion.

would you like to attend religious schooling in african clothes? what if someone didnt like shalwar qamiz the way you do?

and dress codes are very different from uniforms. what dress codes are say a lot about what is acceptable and unacceptable, instead of just imposing uniformity. your office's dress code might be smart, smart-casual etc which reflects the values of your office. the Dojo's kit for martial arts illustrates the nature of that activity. therefore if its a policy about clothes to restrict it to a particular culture, you're sending a message there to anyone attending. and for a religious school, the only message that is appropriate is a religiously appropriate one.

23

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

^ The Imam is the boss. Following his requirements is key to the child as parents demonstrate their trust and respect for him and do not change his requirements. To learn Islam or anything the teacher should be obeyed. You can rationalise this all you want brother ravage but all the argument you bring against shalwar kameez can be cast on the martial arts requirements too.

For example: What if a child did not like going to martial arts in a track suit? It does not matter the boss sets the requirements or the kids can't attend.

I also think there is a very good reason for children to be in shalwar kameez ... firstly the kids will be able to do wudu properly and easily and should be clean and adjusted mindset and all for the masjid. Also, the kids are identifiable to that madrassa and if they loiter around the masajid/madrassa staff can do something. Dressed in something other than shalwar kameez may be confusing to the Imam or teacher about who is in the class and who is not.

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Unfortunately in my mind, none of these reasons actually make too much sense. However, instead of arguing here, I think DC just needs to talk to the teacher and understand what reason they have to be so attracted towards Shalwar Kameez for boys, so much so, that not only do they encourage it, but go to the extent of being harsh on kids who are not dressed as such.

If for a moment, we assume that Islam really is in a dress, then dressing in taub and topi (the whole Arabic style) is probably much more islamic than desi styled-shalwar kameez. However, thats just a personal opinion, cz other than covering our sitr, I don't think Islam really limits us to a particular dress. I do understand if in a school they have a particular dress code, and like it or not, SK it is for this madrassah selected by DC for his child.

Once DC figures out the reason for their insistence on SK, then he can decide whether his kid is actually going to a place of learning or place of ignorance.

;) Choose A Profession 4 Above Person ;)
25

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

For all those saying what moulvi is saying is alright...then they are WRONG...there is a dress code for the madressah and it is Satar and the gentleman is making sure his son wears that.
**
[Edited]

You have the right of expressing your views freely but kindly do it with appropriate selection of words, i.e. within moral limits.**

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Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

i want to hear what the maulvi had to say after DC went to see him!

27

As most of you said, this matter needs to be discussed with the teacher. Of course the teacher should convince the students that using SK in the madrassa is not because other dresses are not allowed in Islam, but because in every institution the head wants to maintain discipline through the use of certain rules and regulations that he feels is appropriate for it. The violation of those rules might not be a sin Islamicaly, but it might be violation of the regulations of that institution, which should not be confused with the Islamic regulations, even though according to some scholars that particular choice might be more encouraged due to the fact that it covers the body relatively better (without giving idea of the shape of private parts) and makes it easier to perform namaz, as tight clothes might at times make it difficult to perform sajda...etc.

The reasons why I personally feel the teacher might not like students to wear clothes other than shalwaar kameez are:

  1. Today one student came in track suit, tomorrow another student would come in his sleeping dress (which might also fulfill the sattar requirements), another day another person might come with cowboy clothes with a hat and DMS shoes,...etc. The teacher has to draw the line somewhere. If he allows track suit today then he can't stop other people who might be wearing clothes that are correct (in terms of sattar) but give a funny reputation to the madrassa when the public sees him entering madrassa with those clothes. If he accepts the excuse of your son today, then tomorrow a student would enter the class (just on time) wearing shocking pink costume with red strips and say, " Sir, I got late celebrating the Halloween party, in order to be able to reach for the class on time I couldn't change my costume (which covers the sattar correctly) so I thought it would be ok to come here directly.

  2. There are dress codes for every institution, violating which means total disregard for the institution and its head. When we respect any organization we try to follow the rules that are related to it, even if we personally do not consider those rules to be logical. The worst torture my teachers gave me was forcing me to wear a tie, that use to irritate my neck too much during summers, but we had to do it, for the sake of showing respect to the rules of that institution. No one would listen to my father's excuses if tomorrow he goes to his office wearing uniform of Indian air force. Because Pakistan air force would not consider his sincerity with the institution by acknowledging his pass sacrifices, good intentions....etc. For them such violation of rules lead to court Marshall. Same goes for police of every country and other departments...etc. I only wanted to wear shorts up till below my knees while representing my football team. My request would not be considered by the authority because that meant violation of the dress code of football academy. My beliefs have no value for them compared to their own dress rules, so of course I can't continue playing with them now.

If we don't draw a line, then some students might even come with their sleeping dress without washing their face. Some might come without combing hair, or wearing untidy clothes. At the end all these would create a bad image of the institution in front of the people who are willing to send their children to that institution.

  1. Little children (students) easily get distracted from religious studies by anything unusual happening in the class. A person entering the class wearing something quite different from the rest of the students would force some students to smile, others to comment, and it might change the atmosphere of the class, hence make it difficult for the teacher to re-gain the attention of the students. This re-gaining of attention of children might not be difficult for a teacher giving lecture on romeo and Juliet , but for teaching religion it is not that easy.
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Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

shalwar kameez is an unislamic dress.
In islam, man and women supposed to dress differently.
Shalwar kameez, for man and women, is more or less the same.

29

Peace Robert

Perhaps we can use this argument to the Imam. First off, we have not established why the Imam wants the child to wear Shalwar Kameez.

From “Morals and Manners in Islam A Guide to Islamic Adab by Marwan Ibrahim Al-Kaysi” Published by Islamic Foundation on pages 81 - 85.

It covers ‘Dress’ … It draws a common requirement between men and women and then goes on to differentiate a difference between men an women. The strict difference is that women should have ankles covered whereas men uncovered. The type of head covering for men should be a cap or a turban but the women should cover the whole hair.

My concern with the topic starters thread is not the shalwar kameez, but the whole matter of:

a) Not giving the Imam his authority
b) Some unkempt clothes are being suggested to be worn when the child is sent to Madrassa.

He should be going as though he is like an angel. He should be given perfume to wear and be as clean as possible.

This child is sent to madrassa as is after sweaty martial art activity. Come on people is there no sense of adab anymore?

Please read snipped from: Etiquette of the Seeker of Knowledge - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

10. Have good manners towards the sheikh

Knowledge cannot be gained only from books; you must also have a sheikh whom you trust to open the door to knowledge and keep you from making mistakes. So you must have good manners towards him, for this is the way to success, learning and strength. So you must honor, respect and be polite to the sheikh. Observe the utmost standards of etiquette when you sit with your sheikh and speak with him. Ask questions in a proper manner and listen attentively. Be polite when studying the book with him and do not try to argue or compete with him. Do not initiate conversation with him, or walk ahead of him, or speak too much in his presence, or interrupt when he is teaching. Do not pressure him to give you an answer, and avoid asking too many questions, especially in front of other people, for this will make you appear to be showing off and make him bored with you. Do not call him directly by his name or nickname; rather say “O my sheikh” or “O our sheikh” (Ya shaykhi or Ya shaykhana).

If you think that the sheikh has made a mistake, do not let that make him lose respect in your eyes, because that will deprive you of his knowledge. Who is there who is entirely free from error?

Finally, we ask Allah to make you and us strong and steadfast, and to let us see the day when you will become one of the scholars of the Muslims and an authority in the religion of Allah and one of the imams of the pious.

30

psyah, Most of your discussion is around the assumption that there is any such dress code (just like martial arts dress code) but I have already told there isn't. Now in absence of any such dress code, being harsh on students to the extent that they think shilwar Qameez is an "Islamic Dress" is I think wrong.

I am afraid thats not a good point at all as I have already mentioned they don't have any specific dress code other than that it should be a proper sutar.

**BTW, I talked to the principal/nazim of the madarsa and as per him this should not be enforced as there is no such dress code and kids should be allowed in any reasonable dress.

Unfortunately my Son's regular mualima is on vacation for couple of weeks and will be back in week after Christmas. Nazim sahab has promised me to follow up with her once she is back and see why (if she is) almost forcing kids to wear Shilwar Qameez. I'll keep you guys posted.**

31


Good thing you talked to the Principal. This makes sense. And perhaps this should also silence all those "shah se ziyada shah ke wafadaar" posters here, who are spending so much energy defending something based on conjecture and without full knowledge.

I do find the "slippery slope" argument quite amusing, that if today you allow kids to show up in gym pants, tomorrow they will show up in sleeping suits. Yeahhh!!! :)

32

Yeah, it's true, I am sure you studied in madrassa, look back, surely you will find an example...

33

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

^ Apparently it doesn't take much for you to be "sure" of anything, right... What else are you "sure" of? :D

34

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

ok then you have not studied in madrassa, not even in Pakistan? come on dude! ;)

35

Peace Faisal

I'm sure of one thing other than going to the madrassa with sweaty clothes from a martial arts workout, socks included. That kids will pick his son out as the odd one out, or the Imam will.

The Shalwar Kameez to me is not as important as following the Imam's requirements in his class. It is a matter of adab not a matter of Islamic dress code requirement.

The thing I am sure of is that you will not agree with me, probably because you believe parents have all rights and because the Imam's on a payroll going to his superior is just the thing to do to get your own way. What a message to give your children hey?

Tell you one thing ... The scholars of Islam will never be respected this way and kids will not want to be scholars too.

Another solution is that the child arrives slightly late to madrassa to change. Ask the child if he doesn't mind changing into Shalwar Kameez for the madrassa instead of going commando on the Imam.

The Jail game
36

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

.... I'm a tutor ... If I ask the tutee to do anything ... I expect it to be done ... and if people start imposing on me then I'll say ... see ya later.

But if an Imam is in a masjid can't possibly say that or he'll get an ear full from the committee. It puts him in a situation where he will despise teaching your kid and will not care for his learning or progress. Give the Imam his authority you will get a well taught child.

37

Re: Islam and "Pants Shirt"

You are making several wrong assumptions on the way. First things first, a teacher is not god. A teacher works according to the rules of the institution in which that teacher teaches. If the institution makes a rule about uniform or dress code... thats fine. A parent would know about it, and will make their choices accordingly.

If the teacher unilaterly makes a rule in the class, which is not an institutional rule, then the teacher should be prepared to explain the rationale to any parent who objects. If the reason is deemed lacking in common sense, the parents are free to take their kids elsewhere. If the institution believes that a teacher is over-stepping their authority they make sure that teacher is counseled or relieved of their duties. May be the teacher didnt even intend to make this a rule, but the way she acted in the class, the pupils got the wrong impression that this is a rule. All can be cleared once cordially discussed.

There is nothing more and nothing less to this discussion. It has nothing to do with whether I believe parents are supreme vis a vis teachers (pretty wrong assumption, btw).

38

But shalwar is a sleeping suit. We made big mistake when we adopted it as "official" dress in Pakistan. People show up in the office as if they just got out of bed. Turks wear pants and their Islam is not in danger. I don't know why Pakistani Islam is so vulnerable to a pice of clothing.

FYI. "dress pants" (and not torn up jeans) and a nice full sleeve shirt could be as Islamic as any other type of clothing.

39

But I was right to be sure that you will disagree with me ... of course I understand your enlightening discourse above ... but have my reservations to the way things are done in todays 'liberated' climate. Peace again brother.

40

Yes, you are right, shalware qameez is "sleeping suit", instead we should've adapted chaddee and banyan (or "sweetly" nicknamed Shorts and T-Shirt) for "national dress".

Agar aap daktar hote