Just wondering how Islam would address the issue?..
Re: Islam and marital rape...
First define what you understand by Marital rape ...
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Forced physicality? Torture? Assault?
Neither ones are permitted IMO and equivalent to raping anyone other than the spouse... technically subject to capital punishment.
Notice I did not say RAJM/Stoning...
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Forced physicality? Torture? Assault? Neither ones are permitted IMO and equivalent to raping anyone other than the spouse... technically subject to capital punishment.
Notice I did not say RAJM/Stoning...
First thing, Marriage is a sacred relationship in our religion. Second, when you get married you are esentially giving sexual rights to each other. So this marital rape is something that is more of a westernized concept where even though you are married you (in many cases) maintain your individuality to a great extent and this marital rape has become an issue.
Still it has room for discussion in our religion I would say. Simply put it would mean when either partner is forcing the their spouse into sexual intercourse without their being comfortable to it. There are many factors involved here i.e. medical conditions, just not in the mood, aversion, foul play etc.
Your argument about capital punishing is totally invalid because it has to do with having intercourse with whom you do not have the right to do so. Spouses have the right to have intercourse with each other so this term of rape is not even in the context.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
i think marital rape does not exist in Islam. if the husband forces himself on wife while she is not agreeing, it cannot be treated as rape. Any injuries resulting to wife thereof will be treated under domestic violence
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Rape is defined as "any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person".
Throughout history, there has been no such thing as marital rape, but as the legal status of women has changed, so has the concept of a man's marital right to have sex at his whim. The UN now considers martial rape a human rights violation. It has only been outlawed in the US for 30 years, so it is not surprising that in Muslim socities there is no such concept. When these types of rights for Muslim women are only 30 years behind the west, we have really achieved something.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
If you have to dismiss my argument for sake of dismissing, then please go ahead, but I think you are overlooking some elements of my post for some reason. Rape has the element of force and torture in it .
Your argument about capital punishing is totally invalid because it has to do with having intercourse with whom you do not have the right to do so. Spouses have the right to have intercourse with each other so this term of rape is not even in the context.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Rape is defined as "any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person".
Throughout history, there has been no such thing as marital rape, but as the legal status of women has changed, so has the concept of a man's marital right to have sex at his whim. The UN now considers martial rape a human rights violation. It has only been outlawed in the US for 30 years, so it is not surprising that in Muslim socities there is no such concept. When these types of rights for Muslim women are only 30 years behind the west, we have really achieved something.
You made the point your self. Our norms of woman are not the same as the west naturally neither are our laws. As I said, western society's are concentrated on a persons indivuduality even in marriage that such things come into play. Why would you want to be married and not have have sex? Now it is required to be respectful of each others needs or desires.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
If you have to dismiss my argument for sake of dismissing, then please go ahead, but I think you are overlooking some elements of my post for some reason. Rape has the element of force and torture in it .
And the key point it is that (at least in Islam) forcing a right upon someone that you don't have such a right. Now rape is generally associated with forcefully exerting a sexual right on someone you do not have the right. Rape is used other contexts as well but the bottomline is violating a right that you do not have. The first thing marriage does is give you sexual rights to one another. Abuse is more appropriate if you ask me.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
And the key point it is that (at least in Islam) forcing a right upon someone that you don't have such a right. Now rape is generally associated with forcefully exerting a sexual right on someone you do not have the right. Rape is used other contexts as well but the bottomline is violating a right that you do not have. The first thing marriage does is give you sexual rights to one another. Abuse is more appropriate if you ask me.
Brother, concentual sex out of wedlock is adultry... forced sex in wedlock (where the wife is being tortured for something) is RAPE! I would count wife-beating, physical assault and torture to be the same as rape since that is what it is. Intercourse is only one of the elements in rape...
Re: Islam and marital rape...
WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH!!!!!!!!!!!
WHOAH!
You people have seriously made me LIVID!
Being married does not mean you give entirely free access of your body to another. You are still ONE person. For your spouse to force themselves on you, it IS rape, married or not. Islam views any form of oppression to be worse than death. Forcing sex on the unwilling is oppression, and therefore, worse than death.
"A Muslim wife is not merely a lump of flesh without emotions or feelings, just there to satisfy a man's natural urges. On the contrary, her body contains a soul no less important in God's sight than her husband's. Her heart is very tender and delicate, and crude or rough manners would hurt her feelings and drive away love. The husband would be both foolish and immoral to act in any way unpalatable to her natural temperament, and a man selfishly seeking his own satisfaction without considering that of his wife is a selfish boor."
Rape isn't about sex, it's about control. A man that rapes a woman, even in the marital bed, is not doing it to fulfill his sexual desires, he's doing it to dominate her, and degrade her. There is no debate on this.
Do you not read the Quran? Do you not read Hadith?
Commentary note 195, page 75, The Meaning of the Holy Quran ‘Abdullah Yusuf Ali: *’Men and women are each other’s garments i.e. they are for mutual support, mutual comfort, and mutual protection, fitting into each other as a garment fits the body. A garment also is both for show and concealment.*
Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it. (The Noble Quran, 99:7-8)"
“According to the Qur’an, the purpose of marriage is to attain *sukun **(tranquility and peace; see for instance verses 30:21; 7:189), **which can never be achieved through impulsive sexual fulfillment unless it is accompanied by mutual love, affection, caring, and sharing, which are all part and parcel of a fulfilling and productive marriage relationship. Islam, as we know it holistically from the sources, is a balanced way of looking at things. Sexual fulfillment can never be detached or separated from an attitude of mutual respect, love, and emotional attachment, otherwise it can hardly be distinguished from the behavior of brutes. Mind you, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) warned couples against hopping into beds like birds without proper foreplay and preparation, which includes showing affection and tender care. *
"Not one of you should fall upon his wife like an animal; but let there first be a messenger between you." "And what is that messenger?" they asked, and he replied: "Kisses and words." (Daylami)
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Brother, concentual sex out of wedlock is adultry... forced sex in wedlock (where the wife is being tortured for something) is RAPE! I would count wife-beating, physical assault and torture to be the same as rape since that is what it is. Intercourse is only one of the elements in rape...
Duh! Bro, I said rape is about violating or exerting forcefully, no mention of concentual here.
Rape is most often used in the context of sexual relations. Violating ones right is different from abusing it. To violate a right your not supposed to have it to begin with. To abuse a right you have the right in the first place in order to abuse it.
When you are married you have the right to have sex with your wife or husband (in Islam) so you can't violate it because you are already entitled to it. Yes you can abuse it. People don't get married to just live with one another. Please don't be mixing up non-muslim norms with muslims norms. Islam looks upon marriage differently than western cultures do.
Are you married?
Re: Islam and marital rape...
First I think only people who are married should be debating here. Those who are not kindly refrain.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Duh! Bro, I said rape is about violating or exerting forcefully, no mention of concentual here.
:) calm down lol I am saying that there is a difference between concentual sex and forced sex, whether IN or OUT of wedlock. Your wife is a human being... many people use forced sex just to make a point to show their wives "who's the boss around here", or to punich them for something as an act of terrorising them ... I consider that RAPE! There is nothing concentual or sacred about such a dispicable act!
Rape is most often used in the context of sexual relations.
But is it always?
To violate a right your not supposed to have it to begin with. To abuse a right you have the right in the first place in order to abuse it.
Right to what? Using your wife as object of your frustration or anger?
When you are married you have the right to have sex with your wife or husband (in Islam) so you can't violate it because you are already entitled to it. Yes you can abuse it. People don't get married to just live with one another. Please don't be mixing up non-muslim norms with muslims norms. Islam looks upon marriage differently than western cultures do.
Again, mixing culture with Islam is a mistake.
Are you married?
Yes... how else would I be debating this topic?
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Something that caught my eye!
When you are married you have the right to have sex with your wife or husband (in Islam) so you can't violate it because you are already entitled to it. Yes you can abuse it. People don't get married to just live with one another. Please don't be mixing up non-muslim norms with muslims norms. Islam looks upon marriage differently than western cultures do.
USResident, what are you saying??? Say it clearly!! And fear God before making a statement!
Re: Islam and marital rape...
:) calm down lol I am saying that there is a difference between concentual sex and forced sex, whether IN of OUT of wedlock. Your wife is not your property, she is a human being... many people use forced sex just to make a point to show their wives "who's the boss around here", or to punich them for something as an act of terrorising them ... I consider that RAPE! There is nothing concentual or sacred about such a dispicable act!
Not getting emotional, don't worry.
I agree that there is forced sex in and out of wedlock but the difference is when out of wedlock you did not have the right for it according to Islam. When in wedlock you had right for sex but you abused it (you may call it rape but the context for each is different).
Right to what? Using your wife as object of your frustration or anger?
That is the difference, right here does not mean that you can claim it without the proper context. Right simply means if I had sex with my wife it would not be illegal according to Islam or termed the same as adultry or rape (when you are not married). If your spouse wants to engage and you don't you don't tie your spouse to the bedposts and have it, if you do that then you are abusing the right you have been given (you may choose to call it rape but I choose to call it abuse, I can only abuse what I have). Now the part where you say it is punishable by death, don't agree there. If the wife is not happy with the husbands sexual orientation, she can ask for a divorce (khul) and be rid of it.
Again, mixing culture with Islam is a mistake.
Not mixing anything here but I was the one who pointed out that we should not mix the norms of different cultures and religions.
Yes... how else would I be debating this topic?
You never know.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Something that caught my eye! USResident, what are you saying??? Say it clearly!! And fear God before making a statement!
What caught your eye? Please elaborate what you understood from my statement if you need me to calrify.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
I agree that there is forced sex in and out of wedlock but the difference is when out of wedlock you did not have the right for it according to Islam. When in wedlock you had right for sex but you abused it (you may call it rape but the context for each is different).
Again, I think that forced sex and torturing your wife through sex is not allowed in Islam, and is equivalent to rape!
That is the difference, right here does not mean that you can claim it without the proper context. Right simply means if I had sex with my wife it would not be illegal according to Islam or termed the same as adultry or rape (when you are not married). If your spouse wants to engage and you don't you don't tie your spouse to the bedposts and have it, if you do that then you are abusing the right you have been given (you may choose to call it rape but I choose to call it abuse, I can only abuse what I have). Now the part where you say it is punishable by death, don't agree there. If the wife is not happy with the husbands sexual orientation, she can ask for a divorce (khul) and be rid of it.
Ever considered that most women are forced not to even take khula and are repeatedly terorized one way or another? (Even when it is not khula but talaaq according to the Quran and is legal action just the way a man would seek it). Separation and divorce is for matters other than domentic violence where the wife is brutalized. Those matters could be disagreement in lifestyle, or simply not getting along... a non-violent end to a non-violent approach.
Not mixing anything here but I was the one who pointed out that we should not mix the norms of different cultures and religions. You never know.
The Norm is the Quran. Women are not man's peoperty, spouses are garments of each other.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Just wondering how Islam would address the issue?...
Maritial rape as an offense is indistinguishable from spousal abuse in general, and so traditionalists are often baffled and confused about the seperation between the two.
It's nigh impossible to even discuss the matter with traditionalists, I find, as immediately lectures on the rights of each spouse to be sexually fulfilled ensue.
Of course, rape isn't about sex where one partner isn't in the mood. It's sex as a form of pysiological abuse. I find the discussion progresses further if rather than treating maritial rape as something sperate from spousal abuse in general, one only talks of spousal abuse.
Re: Islam and marital rape...
Our norms of woman are not the same as the west naturally neither are our laws.
Yes the difference can be summed up in one word - patriarchal.
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Why would you want to be married and not have have sex? Now it is required to be respectful of each others needs or desires.
[/quote]
I wouldn't, obviously. Neither would I want to be married and not eat, but I'm not going to hold a gun to my wife's head and force her to cook. You are right, it is about respect of each other's needs and desires. The need for one person to have sex should not trump the other's need to not have it at any given time. You want a sex slave? Capture one in war. You want a spouse? Treat with respect and not as an object.