let me explain to you again that they were slaves.
freemen do not choose to be castrated whatever you may have been told.
and you seem to have a very warped view of non Muslim women they dont all work in brothels and most of these women were not whores but ordinary women .
The term used for this is women that your right hand took meaning captives not some kind of hired help or person working off a debt.
Most likely many of your ancestors were non Muslim slaves and or people that tried to fight back and lost.
if you look at the history of islam and the slave trade it was equal to anything that the christains did
And your still are avoiding the question why does it not say no keeping slaves if it says its a sin to eat pork seems the priorities are wrong somewhat.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
what if we are hit by asteroids all humans were wiped out ? will there be another
creation of human beings and the same religens?
[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what i am talking about. You are basing a judgement about life on hypothetical scenarios and things that have not occured. You know well that dodging the question of how the universe came about is not going to help you understand your purpose in life,
Please do not bring abstract or hypothetical scenarios or any types of theories as they have no reality.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *
This is exactly what i am talking about. You are basing a judgement about life on hypothetical scenarios and things that have not occured. You know well that dodging the question of how the universe came about is not going to help you understand your purpose in life,
Please do not bring abstract or hypothetical scenarios or any types of theories as they have no reality.
[/QUOTE]
there is now way you can tell all human species will survive.
it is a possibility wecan be be hit by asteroid.
the earth can be devoid of humns that is the possibility.
we as a humans are not treated by nature or god in a special way.
we are not given a special privlage by nature . nature does not differentiate between humans and other animals.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jonny2mad: *
I dont know how the universe came into being and from what I see it will be impossible ever to be sure. I may be wrong in this but that's my guess
[/QUOTE]
The person who does not know where he came from, what he is doing here on earth and what will become of him after he dies, is probably the most confused person in the world.
But why?
Simply because when these questions are answered they form an intellectual basis and give man an intellectual direction in life.
The way you would answer these questions are as follows:
1.Where did i come from? Jhonny says, i don't have a clue
2.What am i doing here on earth? Jhonny says, dony ask me!
3.What will happen to you after you die?Jhonny says, ummm...???
This person will have a very confused life as no objective in life has been defined unless jhonny made up the answers!!!
It's like asking a kid in college, "what are you doing here? and he's reply is, "i dont know". Everyone would agree that this person needs to be treated medically.
Answering these 3 questions is not impossible and nor is the answer you yield (by using the mind) debatable as it is based on the reality which agrees with the mind.
As an example, If there was an empty room which you entered and upon entering you saw a football. You will straight away conclude that this football was put there by someone. This is using the mind and rational thought and the judgement made is 100 percent correct.
In the same manner the existence of the universe is explained. The fact that the universe does not have the ability to bring itself into existence. Hence an external entity must have done that.
This is based on the mind and agrees with the reality.
Any comment?
khilafa why god did not make it simple to make human follow one religen. may be god wanted diversity of human thought ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
there is now way you can tell all human species will survive.
it is a possibility wecan be be hit by asteroid.
the earth can be devoid of humns that is the possibility.
[/QUOTE]
The discussion you want to engage in is going to take us away from the question i posed to you earlier. "where did the universe come from".
There are 2 possibilities why you make a statement not related to my question:
1) you dont want to discuss the issue related to the begining of the universe as you would be implicitly agreeing to the begining of the universe and hence it's creation or
2) you just thought it would be a good statement to make.
Never the less, the question i posed is focusing on the origin of the universe and everything with in it. The destruction of the earth by asteroids does not proove that the universe was not created it just shows that things can be destroyed. Our focus is on how the universe came into being...
So far your arguments have not been releated to the subject at hand.
come on hafeez123456789 and jhonny, you guys have given up...
Either you are convinced or you just dont have an answer. Which is it?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilafah1422: *
come on hafeez123456789 and jhonny, you guys have given up...
Either you are convinced or you just dont have an answer. Which is it?
[/QUOTE]
waiting for you.....hafeez4321n johnny!!!!!!
i dont believe religious version of oigin of this universe.
honest reply is nobody knows
Khalifa:
In another thread you asked the same question and I tried giving you an answer. I will try again. As far as science is concerned, it considers the question ill-posed and not ready for an answer. "Where did the Universe come from?" In posing the question you invoke two basic concepts of space and time, which are not settled matters as far as science is concerned for either cosmological or quantal levels. A possible answer which seems likely to win out is that time and space does not apply to the "Universe" universally, and hence in human terms it is everywhere and has been around forever and will be around forever etc. Not satisfying but there it is.
Invoking religion to answer this question does neither science nor religion any service.
The need for certainty of knowing all the answers to all the questions indicates a need for some serious intellectual reorientation in many a circles these days. Let me pose a very very old question to you and see if you can atleast find an answer to it.
God Almighty is All powerful and All knowing. He is the creator of everything and everyone. Can He create a Universe that He cannot lift?
If He can then He cannot be all powerful since there is something he cannot lift, and if He cannot then He is not Almighty since then there is something He cannot create. So Which one is He not: Almighty or All powerful? There are many many questions like this one that people have asked for centuries. Now please don't disappear like you normally do, but do try to find the answer.
Since you talk of beginnings and ends, let me give you an even older questions that the ancient greeks posed: Where does a circle begin and where does it end? Is it possible that there are things that have no beginnings and no ends?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
i dont believe religious version of oigin of this universe.
honest reply is nobody knows
[/QUOTE]
Your answer shows that you have not been reading my posts because so far the proof that i have given you concerning the universe and it's existence is rational and is not in the domain you claim it to be in. Read my first post and tell me if it is religious or rational.
i agree with you islam has a specific and precise orders relating to social
reform. it understands human mind and deep desire of humans
for dignity equality and family stability .
the whole point of this post was to proove that the mind is used to come to the understanding that the objects that exist in the universe needed something to bring them about and that the universe had a begining. The Quran has many verses encouraging the use of the mind to arrive at this conclusion.
So the intellect and islam are definetely compatible unlike the claim made by a gupshup member. Hence in Islam, the usage of the mind is a condition for embracing Islam rather than blindly following.
Really all the other ways of life do not provide an intellectual basis or even the 2 ideologies like capitalism or communism.
Would you guys agree?
Khalifa did you read my post above: It is possible and very likely that the Universe does not have a beginning! So your start point is wrong. Everything that follows is then wrong.
khalifa human does not have to know or should be forced to know
about origin of this solar system. it is up to the individual.
there are much more immediate and closer to earth problems
to be solved and for that we cant get marerial needs from religen
it only fulfils spirtual needs. matrial needs are most important.
you cant sit in one room totaly obcessed with religen or expect all answers from religen. most of the humans are not even in a position to
listen to or have the luxury to analyse anything other than fulfill their
immediate needs.
Khalifa:
Here is a simple book that gives arguments for a "timeless reality" of the universe. There are many theories out there that do not invoke a beginning or an end. A simple course in topology lets you know that the notion of a beginning and an end is only one of many many many other options that are possible. It really is a good book. I hope you check it out.
Timeless Reality : Symmetry, Simplicity, and Multiple Universes
by Victor J. Stenger
Editorial Reviews
From Book News, Inc.
If you complained to Stenger (physics and astronomy, U. of Hawaii) that you had no time, he would shrug and say nothing does. He explains to educated lay readers that time is reversible and that the underlying reality of all phenomenon may have no beginning and no end. He argues that based on established principles of simplicity and symmetry, at its deepest level reality is literally timeless, and that many universes may exist with different structures and laws from this one.Book News, Inc.®, Portland, OR
Choice, May 2001
"...wide-ranging, sophisticated...recommended..."
Book Description
In his exciting new book, physicist Victor J. Stenger shows how time symmetry at the quantum level makes it possible to draw a model of underlying reality that is simpler and more symmetric than the conventional view. This reality is timeless, with no beginning, no end, and no arrow of time. Time is indeed reversible. And in this "timeless reality," nothing rules out the existence of other universes besides our own; in fact, such a multiverse is strongly suggested by modern theories of cosmology. But whether or not reality has one universe or many, it had no beginning and was not created. It neither was nor will be. It just is.
From the Inside Flap
Quantum physics has many extraordinary implications. One of the most extraordinary is that events at the atomic and subatomic level seem to depend on the future as well as the past. Is time really reversible?
Physicist Victor J. Stenger says yes. Contrary to our most basic assumptions about the inevitable flow of time from past to future, the underlying reality of all phenomena may have no beginning and no end, and not be governed by an "arrow of time." Though aware of the possibility, physicists have generally been reluctant to accept the reversibility of time as reality because of the implied causal paradoxes: If time travel to the past were possible, then you could go back and kill your grandfather before he met your grandmother! However, Stenger shows that this paradox does not apply for quantum phenomena.
Many people believe that the laws of nature represent a deep, Platonic reality that goes beyond the material objects that are observed by eye and by advanced scientific instruments. Stenger maintains that reality may be simpler and less mysterious than most think. The quantum world only appears mysterious when forced to obey rules of everyday human experience. Stenger convincingly argues that, based on established principles of simplicity and symmetry, at its deepest level reality is literally timeless. Within this reality it is possible that many universes exist, each with structures and laws different from our own.
Using language that is easily understood by the nonspecialist, Stenger elucidates these complex subjects with astounding clarity. The many vivid illustrations also help make the book come alive in a manner that is more accessible to the educated lay reader.
About the Author
Victor J. Stenger, Ph.D., is emeritus professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Hawaii.
By going in denielal u dont do any harm to anyone but ur self, uv seen the proof know make a choice burn in hell for ertenerty or janaa.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by al_nasar: *
By going in denielal u dont do any harm to anyone but ur self, uv seen the proof know make a choice burn in hell for ertenerty or janaa.
[/QUOTE]
What ? How does that have anythig to do with the topic of this thread?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by OldLahori: *
What ? How does that have anythig to do with the topic of this thread?
[/QUOTE]
gee boss let me think about that! .what does that have to with the thread.
come ooon dorrrg u telling me u dont know?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by al_nasar: *
gee boss let me think about that! .what does that have to with the thread.
come ooon dorrrg u telling me u dont know?
[/QUOTE]
by dorrrg, did you mean dog or a dork or what? And yes, I am telling you that I do not know what you meant?