Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
cats scratch kids too…and disease is associated with it..
from a health/safety POV, animals in a house is generally an issue..cats, dogs, birds, reptiles, whatever
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Thats true, though the degree of risk varies.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
no X2 you could not be more wrong. Like way we are fighting here, dogs too like to fight their own kind.
Feral dogs is huge problem in developing world. We are killing our vultures which is causing more dogs on the street and more rabies.
Dog is different thing. I know there is nothing which can protect house like a dog.
But you can not forget the potential problem. If you forget, next time you in pakistan you might stop seeing feral dog as a threat.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
not just dogs are a threat …but pictures of dogs too a spiritual danger, per psyah
damn you… pictures of dogs!!! damn you!!!
I agree…forget dog, i have zero pets at home because I know I will be the one stuck cleaning after them and I simply can’t with my schedule.
I had a dog in college when i lived in a fraternity house, when i left to go to grad school , the dog stayed back, because I knew outdoors and in a dog house by a college campus was different then stuck in a one bedroom in philly. smokey was a great dog.
had cats begum and I got as kittens but developed allergies so they went too..
now i tell my kids they can have a pet rock as a pet
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Good grief. Per Psyah? Are these entirely his opinions or is it based on research and the majority opinion of the scholars? No need to get so upset at him, he’s not forcing to anyone to keep dogs out of the home or not display pictures.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
as someone said that Islam’s ruling are based on the philosophy of ‘changing rules for the changing needs, and unchanging rules for the unchanging needs’ - and I agree with that. Ijtehad is needed even in the matter of dogs. We dont live in small mud houses anymore with one room that has kitchen in one corner and bathroom in the other. Instead we live in homes with upstairs/downstairs, where each bedroom is a living quarter of its own in terms of privacy. We live in places where you may not have a backyard, or by law you cannot leave your dog outside overnight because his barking would disturb the neighbors, or maybe its too cold to leave him outside. If you need a dog (for protection) in such situation, then you would have no choice to keep the dog inside, at least during night time.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
The world we are living in, cannot be lived the same without dogs. We have bomb sniffing dogs, search and rescue dogs, blind people leader dogs, sled dogs, herding dogs, hunting dogs, cadaver dogs .. and the list goes on and on. I mean just imaging removing dogs from all the mentioned professions. Dogs are fantastic companions of old people and are great depression relievers of those suffering from chronic depression.
I am not praising dogs here, I am saying that Allah has given us this wonderful animal to use for our own benefits. Lets not pooh pooh the animal away from our life. We need to rethink our rulings.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
I want to pick a fight with P-63.
" We are killing our vultures which is causing more dogs on the street and more rabies."
Didn’t you learn in Vulture Academy they only eat the dead or the dying?
Notes:
P stands for poster of
- stands for post #
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
That would be true … A closed door or patio section would do the trick, still disallowing the dog to enter the main part of the house … People living in apartments are better off without a dog, but yeah … However, the Hadith applies and it should not be ridiculed.
Good grief, No need to start assuming that anyone is upset. Nor am I forcing anyone to have dogs or dog pictures. But the point that dogs pictures are just as bad as dogs is extremely weak and had to be addressed. So may be not ‘per psyah’ but he has not shared any source so it’s per:through him…if that is such a huge issue then let me rephrase it to ‘per someone I don’t know narrated by psyah’ … Better.? 
TLK while you made great points about nature of housing etc, do you think we need ijtehaad on the topic of pictures of dogs?
If pics are not allowed period then it does not matter if it’s of a dog or someone.
If pics are allowed if they are not revered and made to be icons, then is there a different rule for dogs versus other beings? I suppose pigs are not allowed either.
The point is let’s keep things simple, otherwise we will have situations like ppl asking others to wash their mouth when they say pig, or 3 little pigs not being kosher.. Pun intended.. In some desi school.
Let’s not make faith tougher than it is, people default to ‘not allowed’ for stuff instead of allowed or we don’t know.
The stuff that god wanted us to focus on is clearly laid out in Quran. The business of clergy in every faith through time has been to become some sort of go between entity and run their shop based on it.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Just to clarify earlier … The dog’s presence in the home prevents angels from entering … The reason why this is the case has not been mentioned … It would be wrong to conclude that they are frowned upon because they are dirty … But it is correct to frown upon them because they are dirty including the various negative ahadith about them … There are also positive references about them …
When mentioning the ruling of the image going as per the ruling of the object … It applies … So if the reason for the angels not entering a place where a dog is present is to do with the image of the dog then that applies … If it is to do with the real dog in his real dog like reality that prevents the angels then of course that instead would apply.
What the ruling is I am not claiming to know … I am only giving the rules as I have heard them.
We should not always seek out rational reasons for things in our faith … If we do, we will end up doing things in revolt and mostly be wrong about doing them. I was happily going to ignore this thread but I felt some people were beginning to get offended with the tone that was being used with the Hadith … Disagree with what they mean … fine … But to jest with them can be possibly dangerous for reason of Iman and it does hurt the sentiments of those who revere the sayings … Just a thought to be considered.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
I apologise that I offended you …
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Interesting … The things that make sense to you X2 you don’t seem to argue with … You readily accepted that the origins in pictures being forbidden is based on iconography … Yet you challenged the implication of the image of dogs … I think you were right to challenge it … Some of the hard liners even say images of trees is wrong … If fact they say any form of painting and any photograph is wrong … So the extent of what I am saying is not that extreme … However I acknowledge they have a basis for what they say … I also acknowledge the reverse that people say photos are harmless and that even pictures are harmless in the world today …
But we are a middle path religion and I feel it is better to follow the middle path in all matters without compromising requirements and without hindering spiritual progress.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
no mate nothing like that. i saw an opening to mess with you and took it. Just horsing around.
Its all cool. Appreciate the apology, not needed at all. You are a scholar and a gentleman and I know you dont get into personal attacks, and general ribbing among dudes is fine. Thank god we dont interact like the ladies do 
You are someone I respect a lot, even if we disagree on things. Know that..and know that I will never be offended at your well meaning posts and even criticism. The individual and the intent is critical and I can never fault you on either.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Psyah, let me try to simplify X2’s point. The hadees talked about three things that stops angels from entering.
- Presence of Dogs
- Pictures (of living beings)
- A person in the haalat of ehtelaam.
All three, though part of same hadees, cannot be treted the same, hence we have ijtehaad about #2 already. When they cannot be treated the same, then they should not be mixed with each other too. So we cannot say that a picture of a person in ehtelaam should be treated as a person in ehtelaam (referring to your point that a picture of dog should treated as dog itself), because that means that a picture of person in haalat-e-paaki should be treated as a person in Haalat-e-Paki. I hope you noticed that how the issue just got more confusing by moving forward with the same logic.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
I default to logic, which i know is not always the answer but it helps. yes, Middle path is the answer. In my own home we have only two pictures on display and in one room and its my kids pics. rest of those house is picture free. I personally dont care but my parents visit and they have mixed feelings, plus to them its more about where to pray and if there are pictures on the walls etc, so for me it was a very easy decision… I am rather ambivalent about having pictures up, my parents would rather not..so off they go.
My issue is not with you at all. My issue is that the hardliners delivering sermons on TV…image on TV vs image in a frame…what the difference? why are their pictures in newspapers at rallies or posing with other pals…why are their pics on flyers and brochures and posters of their events. I mean I can twist it so many ways that it is ridiculous…i can’t have a picture ‘in’ the house…but then can i put a huge portrait in the back yard? ..as a whole icon…and then say, well the picture is not in my home..pictures in home are not cool but out on billboards and screens they are fine? is the issue with images or what people may do with images…and while public places can be monitored and controlled, private can’t thus the guidance to not have images because back then people started worshipping stuff, images, statues..etc etc. pictures in display versus pictures in albums…pictures on display versus pictures on a had drive..does it then matter? so thats where your point that to have the picture as some icon is an issue…and in my mind, i add on to it that the picture is iconized for a particular purpose..and that purpose is shirk of some sort where you are looking at the individual or entity in that image to have some sort of power.
I was serious when I said that people who are dead set against pictures in the house better be surfing the web in text only mode…because one can’t say well, i dont have a framed picture but web has it and I am powerless. dont carry cash either, do everything with debit card would that make sense..are ppl worshipping benajmin franklin, the queen or quad e azam or king abdullah? ..i guess some may be, but they dont put a currency note in front of them and start praying to it..
Middle path makes sense, middle path has to be led by some deliberate thinking about reasoning and intent, and what it means. To me, the reasoning for images was to discourage a particular issue. The image of the dog thing took me by surprise because I dont think the picture of a dog has to be treated any differently than that of a ood bilao, oont, bagar billa, lomri, kabootar, laggar bagha, langur or chimgadar
and please, dont take any of this as trying to prove you wrong, not being open to other pov, or ridiculing anything..the very serious discussion style has never been my thing…now come here and give me a hug…but before that leave your wallet with TLK, it has pictures in it and I dont want to be in proximity of pictures
PS: TLK… wallet lay kar bhaaaaaaaaag!!!
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Psyah..my point has always been that hadeeth can explain something in religion, hadeeth can not add something. if pictures and dogs issue was that much of a part of islam then it would have just been spelled out.
so i dont know if this is worse, but i am no way shape or form making fun of the hadeeth. not at all…
However, I am stating that it is not as critical as it is being made out to be, or may be out of context..if it is true at all.
dont fault me for ridiculing it, fault me for not accepting it and accepting its interpretation and application.
Re: Islam and Dogs(animal)
Only if you promise that the hug is not going to make you guilty of the third condition.
Dang it, if its mod free month for others then its mod free month for me too.
Tobah tobah
Gandi soch bhi islam mein na-pasandeedah hay.