ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

Urgh, phone shut off battery, was in the process of a nice response to all this.

Suffice it to say some pple here need to open the Quran and read translations!!!

I’ll type my response out tomorrow, so angry I lose them cuz of computer glitches.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

Verse 19 I think it was in Surah Nisa. Perscribes a punishment for two men engaging in lewdness (you’d have to prove it first), and gives them an out to forgiveness if they promise to repent. At that point, it’s between them and God. That verse doesn’t perscribe a death punishment, just uses the word ‘punishment’. When the Quran WANTS a corporal punishment, it explicitly states so.

Therefore, there is no death penalty for homosexuality, and moreover, these ISIS people aren’t even doing anything right in the first place - no court case, no defense, no chance for defense, just picking up people and executing them on whims of suspicion?? No, that’s not anything close to what Islam suggests.

Punishment for homosexuality is up for interpretation. It’s not death. It could be isolation, it could be counseling, it could be a fine, it could be temporary jail time, it could be asking the person to leave the territory and practice his desires elsewhere.

I am not well versed on the hadith’s when it comes to homosexuality, but whatever they are, they need to be consistent with the Quranic verses.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Zafra

This is what I love about Foreigners. Due to personal inadequacies and insecurities, they question Islam, but when local US state governments make it legal to fire a man or woman because they are gay. There is absolute silence.

The only people who think ISIL represent Islam are ignorant racists with no knowledge of Islam. Uneducated jahil Muslims. Or former Muslims who wish to put their personal insecurities at ease.

Normal humans don’t see ISIL as representative of Islam as the Tea Party represents most Americans and Christianity.

Its bit off topic, but you also live in the US. Do you count yourself as foreigner, too? In fact, vast majority of posters here are expats & their opinions are not less valid than yours…not so foreigner using Time Warner Cable from Pakistan??

[hareem01]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Southie

Point taken PCG.

In one of my posts, I had stated that whatever is stated in a religions scriptures is not my business. For each religion has its own views.

The discussion veered to Islam based on one of teggy’s posts. And I write this from memory. Teggy said most folks with knowledge of Islam know its views on homosexuality, or something to the effect.

At that point I felt it appropriate to ask him what he felt the punishment should be for homosexuality. To which he indicated whatever the proper government prescribes.

In my opinion, this is a dangerous attitude. It is one thing to read scripture. And another to stand by and watch when homosexuals are put to death. So I asked if saudi is an example of a proper government. And what is the punishment in meters out for said “crime”

Hareem responded it is punishable by death. And from her posts it was clear she supported it.

Those (including you) who rightly say ISIS does not represent Islam have the moral obligation to criticize current muslim governments who put homosexuals to death. Regardless of how few or large the number.

To not criticize such barbaric punishments and then to claim ISIS does not represent Islam is not kosher.

To support such barbaric punishments (and some here do) and then to claim ISIS does not represent Islam is INCONSISTENT.

It’s not about hareem supporting Saudi. It’s about respecting a country’s culture and laws. In Saudi, The punishment for engaging in homosexual sex is same as engaging in adultery. Got it?

Yes, Saudi Arabian government isn’t lenient when it comes to punishing people…but you can’t compare them with ISIS. Because Saudi Arabia isn’t invading any country and trying to impose their strict laws.

[Southie]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

Sorry Hareem. I think above is addressed to me?

Have stopped reading ur posts. So won’t be able to respond. It is best this way. Since you keep twisting what I state to paint me anti muslim. Not going to keep clarifying my position to you.

Have a nice day now.

[Southie]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@PyariCgudia

Verse 19 I think it was in Surah Nisa. Perscribes a punishment for two men engaging in lewdness (you’d have to prove it first), and gives them an out to forgiveness if they promise to repent. At that point, it’s between them and God. That verse doesn’t perscribe a death punishment, just uses the word ‘punishment’. When the Quran WANTS a corporal punishment, it explicitly states so.

Therefore, there is no death penalty for homosexuality, and moreover, these ISIS people aren’t even doing anything right in the first place - no court case, no defense, no chance for defense, just picking up people and executing them on whims of suspicion?? No, that’s not anything close to what Islam suggests.

Punishment for homosexuality is up for interpretation. It’s not death. It could be isolation, it could be counseling, it could be a fine, it could be temporary jail time, it could be asking the person to leave the territory and practice his desires elsewhere.

I am not well versed on the hadith’s when it comes to homosexuality, but whatever they are, they need to be consistent with the Quranic verses.

Thank you. As u stated lots of room for interpretation. And in fact, quite humane, especially for that time.

99.9 pct of religious people use their judgment and would interpret this to conclude it is between the sinner and God. The other 0.1 pct would interpret this to come up with a suitable punishment for the “sinners”. And this 0.1 pct would be on board with the Saudi regime treatment of such “sinners”. Which does include imprisonment. And may result in death - though it has been 12 years since last execution.

It should not be difficult to condemn the Saudi regime. I believe Yemen Iraq Iran and Qatar also punish this “sin”. It should not be difficult to raise ones voices against such practices. (There are also some countries in Africa - some muslim some christian - that have such punishments.

as for trials, quite frankly I won’t trust the Saudi government to give homosexuals a fair trial.

NONE of this is an attack on Islam. It is simply condemning ongoing practices in certain countries (who MISUSE religion), that are hurtful to a community. And yes, religion is MISUSED by the regimes in such instances. And by those who support such practices.

[Balthier]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

Homosexuals are a minority in heterosexual majority societies, a vulnerable one at that.

Muslims are a minority in non-muslim majority societies, a vulnerable one at that.

If we can condemn maltreatment of one minority then we can condemn maltreatment of another one, without being told that we are anti-muslims, hateful, bigots etc. If anything you are opposite of what you are being accused of.

Its about being consistent in ones condemnation of injustice. Nothing to do with being hateful.

[Southie]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

Unfortunately, we tend to only see instances when our own are victimized as a minority. A Hindu living in America should be the first to condemn the Babri Masjid demolition and Gujrat massacre. In the same vein, a Muslim or a Hindu living in the west should proactively condemn the treatment being meted out to the “sinners” in regimes like Saudi Arabia.

Indeed, it is about being consistent. Well said.

[Thornewood9]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Southie

The problem with using religion to promote discrimination against folks is that it goes against all norms of decency. Post 46 first claims Allah punished a group for their homosexuality. And then adds “it was not just about homosexuality. It was also about rape, stealing and mocking a religious leader.”

This script is not much different from what is happening today in the WEST. The religious right (with whom their counterparts from south Asia see eye to eye on this issue) obfuscates homosexuality with child molestation and other ills. Thus dehumanizing a whole group of people.

The only difference is in the West they don’t put homosexuals to death. Whereas some here would support punishments as severe as capital punishment for the sin of committing homosexual acts, as long as it is administered by a popular government.

This should be condemned by moderate and peace loving muslims Hindus Christians etc etc.

REMINDER: THIS POST DOES NOT EQUATE ISIS WITH ISLAM.

The story of Prophet Lut AS was primarily about homosexuality. However those people were extremely evil in the other acts that they did. What’s your point? In Islam homosexuality is haram. The ACTION is. Having those feelings isn’t its acting in those feelings that makes it haram.

[Zafra]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Shamraz_Khan

Its bit off topic, but you also live in the US. Do you count yourself as foreigner, too? In fact, vast majority of posters here are expats & their opinions are not less valid than yours…not so foreigner using Time Warner Cable from Pakistan??

I am not sure if this is really a question but okay. Yes I am a foriegner in the US. There is a reason I have a diplomatic visa here.

Edit: To add vis a vis Pakistan it definitely makes your opinion less valid. It also makes it less valid on all issues related to Islam because your personal identity is so out of whack you make statements that are akin to what you see on Storm Front.

If you are in the US nobody google stormfront at work. Its a US based Neo-nazi website.

[hareem01]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Southie

Sorry Hareem. I think above is addressed to me?

Have stopped reading ur posts. So won’t be able to respond. It is best this way. Since you keep twisting what I state to paint me anti muslim. Not going to keep clarifying my position to you.

Have a nice day now.

Very childish attitude.

[hareem01]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Southie

Thank you. As u stated lots of room for interpretation. And in fact, quite humane, especially for that time.

99.9 pct of religious people use their judgment and would interpret this to conclude it is between the sinner and God. The other 0.1 pct would interpret this to come up with a suitable punishment for the “sinners”. And this 0.1 pct would be on board with the Saudi regime treatment of such “sinners”. Which does include imprisonment. And may result in death - though it has been 12 years since last execution.

It should not be difficult to condemn the Saudi regime. I believe Yemen Iraq Iran and Qatar also punish this “sin”. It should not be difficult to raise ones voices against such practices. (There are also some countries in Africa - some muslim some christian - that have such punishments.

as for trials, quite frankly I won’t trust the Saudi government to give homosexuals a fair trial.

NONE of this is an attack on Islam. It is simply condemning ongoing practices in certain countries (who MISUSE religion), that are hurtful to a community. And yes, religion is MISUSED by the regimes in such instances. And by those who support such practices.

Who should condemn these laws? People in US? Because majority living in these countries where homosexuality is illegal don’t have a problem with it being illegal (I love democracy) . So may be you should start minding your business and start condemning your government for spying on you.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

@Zafra

Edit: To add vis a vis Pakistan it definitely makes your opinion less valid. It also makes it less valid on all issues related to Islam because your personal identity is so out of whack you make statements that are akin to what you see on Storm Front.

If you are in the US nobody google stormfront at work. Its a US based Neo-nazi website.

I don’t think anyone has given you right to 1) issues fataws 2) declared anyone more or less Muslim/Pakistani & no it doesn’t matter whether you have diplomatic passport, immunity or asylum. Now stick to the topic & if you can’t don’t post.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: ISIS Hurls Gay Men Off Buildings

[note] Thread has served its purpose & is closed.[/note]