ISI and Army doing all they can to make sure that democratic system fails in Pakistan

If Pakistan ever disintegrates you know who to blame.

Winds blow Pakistan; U.S. shivers – chicagotribune.com

Winds blow Pakistan; U.S. shivers
Ally’s struggles cause dilemma for Washington

By Bay Fang | Washington Bureau
August 3, 2008

WASHINGTON — When Pakistani Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani appeared before the Council on Foreign Relations last week on his maiden trip to Washington, he underlined Pakistan’s commitment to the war on terror by saying, “This is not Charlie Wilson’s war. This is Benazir Bhutto’s war.”

While that line referring to a movie and the assassinated Pakistani political leader drew applause, many in the audience reacted afterward with surprise to Gilani’s difficulty answering many of the questions that followed. His stumbles reinforced concerns in Washington that Pakistan, with its crucial role at the center of the fight against terrorism, has neither a stable government nor a unified strategy for dealing with militants within its borders.

President Pervez Musharraf has been sidelined, but no strong leader has emerged to replace him. The Pakistani military, the most powerful force in the country, is waiting in the wings. And the administration of President George W. Bush, which for many years focused its Pakistan strategy around Musharraf’s leadership, is struggling with how to react.

The dilemma for Washington has been heightened by U.S. officials’ reported suspicions that Pakistan’s powerful intelligence service, ISI, was involved in a July suicide bombing of the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan. Pakistan has denied a connection to the bombing, though a government spokeswoman conceded Friday that “individuals” within the spy agency might be sympathetic to the militants and that Pakistan needs to “weed them out.”

Wary about military
Administration officials worry that Pakistan’s government does not have enough control over the military or ISI to take action against the militant extremists who populate the country’s lawless regions near the Afghan border. “The problem seems to be growing faster than they can handle,” a senior administration official said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

The Bush administration has privately urged the Gilani government to try to convince its coalition partners, and Pakistan’s increasingly anti-American population, of the need to turn their focus from historic rival India toward the militancy on Pakistan’s western border.

Pakistani officials say they’re doing their best, and that the new government is still dealing with the fallout from Musharraf’s heavy-handed rule.

“It is very clear that the [Bush] administration wants to work with the democratic government, and Congress is very welcoming,” said Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s ambassador to the U.S. “At the same time, not everyone in Washington fully understands that there has been a major change in Pakistan, and the new government has inherited several issues from the previous regime.”

One of these residual problems is that the weak civilian government cannot dictate to the military. The military, under the new control of Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, has been keeping out of politics.

“The military is just waiting around, giving the civilian government enough rope to hang itself,” said Marvin Weinbaum, a Pakistan and Afghanistan scholar at the Middle East Institute. “The U.S. wants to strengthen the government, but knows full well that it’s going to be the military that will have to confront the militants.”

Because of this, the Bush administration not only completed delivery of 14 F-16 jet fighters to the Pakistan air force the day Gilani arrived in Washington, but also promised to shift more than $200 million in counter-terrorism funds to upgrade the country’s fleet of F-16s. Key Democrats on the House Foreign Affairs Committee argued that the shift might help Pakistan counter India but would not help against the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

Seeking allies within ally
At the same time, the U.S. has been hedging its bets, warning that it might take unilateral military action against militants if the Pakistani military fails to come through. Hours before Gilani’s visit, a missile strike in the tribal region of South Waziristan, suspected to be the work of a U.S. Predator drone, was reported to have killed an Al Qaeda weapons expert.

But too many such strikes could further alienate an already suspicious Pakistani public and provoke a reaction from the military.

“It’s one thing to bomb a country that we don’t need,” said Christine Fair, a political scientist at RAND Corp. “But if we’re going to keep bombing Pakistan, we need a wider strategy.”

Analysts say it remains unclear whom the U.S. should work with. On the eve of Gilani’s visit, the government announced that the ISI would come under the control of the Ministry of Interior, an apparent gesture to the U.S. that Pakistan was tightening civilian oversight of the military. But that decision was quickly—and embarrassingly—reversed by military and intelligence officials.

“The ISI has always been somewhat of a problem, but now, without a powerful president, individuals already inclined to cause trouble now have freer rein to do it,” said Dan Markey, a South Asia specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Some Pakistan-watchers wonder whether the divided civilian government will survive through the end of the year. Former prime minister Nawaz Sharif, head of one of the parties in the governing coalition, has threatened to pull his party out, mainly due to differences over restoring judges that Musharraf sacked last year.

Eyeing aid
The collapse of the government would make it significantly more difficult to pass an aid bill sponsored by Sens. Joseph Biden (D-Del.) and Richard Lugar (R-Ind.). That plan, co-sponsored by Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, seeks to triple non-military aid to Pakistan over the next five years, while conditioning military aid on certification of Pakistani counter-terrorism efforts.

The Bush administration, which has sent Pakistan more than $11 billion in military and humanitarian aid since 2001, has reacted to the bill with what one congressional staffer called “half-hearted acceptance.”

At Gilani’s Council on Foreign Relations appearance, one of the exchanges that provoked audience guffaws involved a question about how the government could better control the restive tribal area along the Afghanistan border.

Gilani replied that the area was already under the federal government, and that all the area’s senators actually support him.

Council president Richard Haass replied dryly, “Well, we wish you well with that.”

So it is the military/ISI still calling the shots. When this government does not take key decisions like the previous one, why they take responsibility of disasters? I think it is high time Zaradari and co. should think seriously. Either they should have taken strong stand on the notification or resigned enblock to avoid ****y situation created by military/ISI. Let the military rule directly as usual (most of the time)since partition.

Re: ISI and Army doing all they can to make sure that democratic system fails in Paki

If Pakistan disintegrates I would blame the following in that order

  1. Army
  2. ISI
  3. Taliban and Mullahs
  4. Pakistanis
  5. America
  6. India
  7. Israel

Re: ISI and Army doing all they can to make sure that democratic system fails in Paki

Pakistan will not disintegrate, it will just stumble along as usual.

Hmm… Interesting!

So it is not ISI completely but certain individuals (traitors) within ISI who are responsible for the unrest inside of Pakistan. I would definitely NOT be surprised if these traitors are secret Taliban supporters.

Pakistan needs to pull these traitors out of ISI and shoot each one of them for supporting terrorists to further deteriorate stability of Pakistan.

Those who’re not true to their lands, who / what can they be true to?

My list:

  1. Mullahs / Talibans
  2. Traitors amongst us (Within ISI / IB or general public)
  3. RAW
  4. CIA

what do you mean by disintegration? I think a province seceding is more likely than the whole country dissolving. (because a. it has happened before; b.the Baluchis and the Baltis etc are mobilizing and c.religion is giving cover to the real underlying problem and thus allowing it to fester(

What is the real underlying problem?

In my opinion, it is the negative elements sent by the enemy into Pakistani land who are exploiting the balochi people on one hand (against the Pakistani govt.) and exploiting the greedy leaders on the other hand (to attack civilians in Balochistan). So to create the two groups within the country, i.e; Govt. Vs Balochistan (MQM sh!t somewhat did not win the way they expected). Hence this way, create severe unrest, unstability. Because no matter whether army attacking the balochis or Balochis attacking the rest of the country parts. Who is sufferring ultimately is PAKISTAN.

Enemy successfully exploites us creating disunity amongst us so that we can kill each other and die making it all easy for them. We all need to WAKE UP, shoot the traitors and the negative elements creating this confusion, misunderstanding and disunity between Pakistanis.

What we are doing in the end is just killing each other and letting the enemies take us over.

There should definitely be a way of reconciliation among the people of Pakistan. What every single Pakistani needs to understand is that:

"Anyone fueling the 'seperation movements' or fueling the thought "We are different than the people belonging to other part of Pakistan (whether they follow a complete American life style or they are content with a pure tribal life style)" IS NOT FROM AMONG US.

Baluchis are not rising on their own, "religion" is not giving any cover, however religion is being abused as it was done in Afghan war (80s) too.

Actually, it is the Pakistani government that is doing all it can to make sure the democratic system fails in Pakistan. :)

^^^^^You mean this government led by Mush and MQM

^^ Sherdil123 bhaijan. You once again miss the point. But please, do carry on with the rhetoric. Whilst you are at it, can you enlighten us on what any of the 'democratically elected' governments of Pakistan have done to run the country (and their parties) in a 'democratic way'. :)

This is an excellent post and vision. I am on board with every single point. Pakistanis need to put Pakistan first.

We have to accommodate our people and make sure that this wave of disunity is halted in its tracks.

Aalsi,

Mush and ISI are the biggest hurdle. No democracy can succeed in this kind of scenario where president is a dictator enjoying more powers than PM and ISI running as a super boss. Get your thinking corrected.

Sherdil123 bhaijan. I am happy with my thinking. Before blaming others, can you please enlighten us on what any of the 'democratically elected' governments of Pakistan have done to run the country (and their parties) in a 'democratic way'? :)

Pakistan is really vulnerable these days. There is no doubt in it.

Unfortunately the newspapers in the West and in Pakistan are propounding these hair-brained analysis just to spite President Bush (and his allies).

Here is a quick view where these newspaper guys miss out entirely.

  1. It is Afghanistan that opposes the idea of restricting cross border movement and not Pakistan.

  2. It is Afghanistan that is suffering from the cancer of Pashtun-nonPashtoon backbiting.

  3. Pakistan army will not let Taliban uprising turn into a Pashtoon uprising. They have learned their lesson from BDesh.

  4. The reach of Pakistan based Taliban is limited to few border provinces in Afghanistan. What about rest of Afghanistan? Why there is no peace in Afghanistan's south and the Western regions.

  5. Pakistan army is dominated by two ethnic groups: Punjabis and Pashtoons. There is no way that Pak army will use its full force against Pashtoons in FATA area. This will end up splitting the army. And God only knows what will happen if Pak army falls apart.

So people who sit in comfy air-conditioned offices have a habit of giving bombastic suggestions and this newspaper article is no different.

Here is what Americans and other well wishers can do to improve the situation.

  1. Afghan war is a long war, so do not try to win it in few years.

  2. Quit dividing Pakistan along civilian vs. army. Whatever the issues are in Pakistan are internal issues. The West should look at Pakistan as a country and not a collection of wild animals eternally at each others throat.

  3. Induct Pak army into NATO and make it part of the allied force. As both of them are fighting the common enemy.

  4. Establish joint command and communication center that includes Pakistani officers.

  5. Rotate the top allied commander every year and let a Pakistani general run the allied operation when the turn comes.

  6. Provide $40 billion to build major highways and railways through FATA.

  7. Help Pakistan with easy credit for the next 10 years

  8. Indian army and RAW should be kept out of Afghanistan. This only destabilizes an already tense situation.

  9. Help Northern Alliance controlled Kabul government understand the basic fact. "quit your 60 years old vendetta against Pakistan". The days of Nadir Shah or Ghori are long gone. Afghanistan is now of the size comparable to a province of Pakistan. So Afghans must know their place.

  10. Help restrict the movement across Pak-Afghan border.

Unless Taliban are opposed with force

AND

FATA areas are changed economically the malice of tribal anarchy will be here for a long time.

Aalsi,

90% of the time since partition Pakistan was ruled by dictators kicking elected short lived democracy. What do you expect in this scenario? You tell me what dictators have given to Pakistan, except misery, chaos, hunger, injustice, corruption, drugs, jehadis list goes on. Again correct your thinking, which is quite faulty.

Present democracy is also result of dictator's NRO. All corrupt and criminals like MQM are in forefront in the government. Ask MQM what they have given to province of Sindh ruling since last ten years, except killings, butta khori, cell, auto thefts, crimes, overflowing sewers, dirty and broken roads and streets, no electricity and water etc? Ask your favorite MQM.

Very misleading title for the thread.

[quote]
** ISI and Army doing all they can to make sure that democratic system fails in Pakistan**
[/quote]
It should have been your opinion in the post rather than title of the thread. Also i failed to see where in the article above does it mention that ISI and Army want to see the democratic govt fail.

There is nothing misleading in the article nor the thread's title. Its pretty clear if you can read. ISI and army are doing all they can to undermine civilian govt.

[quote]
....Pakistan's powerful intelligence service, ISI, was involved in a July suicide bombing of the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan. Pakistan has denied a connection to the bombing, though a government spokeswoman conceded Friday that "individuals" within the spy agency might be sympathetic to the militants and that Pakistan needs to "weed them out."

Administration officials worry that Pakistan's government does not have enough control over the military or ISI..."

One of these residual problems is that the weak civilian government cannot dictate to the military.
[/quote]

Re: ISI and Army doing all they can to make sure that democratic system fails in Paki

Pakistan will never prosper as long as the corrupt generals and their agencies are around