Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
Peace Mughal1
If you can’t add constructively to this discussion then please refrain from verbosity …
Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
Can anyone briefly explain to me how 4:159 is an evidence for the fact that Jesus(as) is still alive? pls try to be brief.
Peace Psyah,
You have tried to make a connection that doesn't exist and I will talk about the connection that could be extracted from these two verses in a moment. In verse 5:116, practice of shirk among the followers of jesus(as) was in question and whether Jesus(as) preached anything like that or not. His being a true prophet is not being discussed. Whereas in 4:157-159, refutation of accursed death of Jesus(as) is there plus the fact that the common belief among both followers and rejectors of Jesus(as) is founded on a doubt. Where is the connection? I don't get it.
Now the connection that can be deduced: In 5:117, Jesus(as) said in his response that "I was witness over them ......but after Allah did his tawaffee then Allah is watcher over his people". In 4:159, it is clearly stated that Jesus(as) will be witness over his people on the judgment day for their false beliefs. No mention of him being witness over them in this world again.
Peace kchughtai
Well ... 4:159
It states at the end of this verse "he shall be a witness against them"
And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. **And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.
And you have already agreed that verses 5:116-117 are what Isa (AS) is saying "as witness against them" ... so how can you not see the connection between these two verses?
**And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" **He will say*, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
*I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
According to hadith Isa (AS) will come and the people who come in to contact with him will realise he is Masih ... and they will soon realise the truth about his circumstances and his nature and reality. There is evidence in the hadith that people will embrace Islam or that the regime of the world will be in the hands of those who bear the truth, but there will still be evil in it and there will still be those who have not become believers. That is why when the rapture happens - or the wind that takes away the good souls will leave behind a world in semi-ignorance once again.
Does the verse 4:159 show direct evidence in itself of the idea that Isa (AS) is alive, I'm not sure I can say that, but with respect to hadith and how it fits with other beliefs yes it is a vital component of this.
It is because if we are to take the interpretation that this is a prediction requisite rather than an** obligation** then indeed this has not happened yet - the People of the Book have to date not wholesale accepted the truth about Isa (AS).
Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
**4:159.**And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
From ayah 4:159: ‘Isa (AS) would die only after all people of the book believe on Isa (AS)’. That has not happened yet, that means Isa (AS) is alive.
Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
Hope this helps.
Please see the 2nd translation which make sense…
1st translation is how you interpret it.. 2nd is how it should be interpreted.
Thanks.
Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
Thx for the explaination. As you have said that all the people of the book will believe in Isa(AS). Rest assure that is not going to happen till the Judgment day as per Holy Quran. Are you saying that he will see the Judgment day without ever dying?
The statement is untrue for the following reasons:
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Quran: In 3:55, Allah promised Jesus(as) that his followers will be exalted above the rejectors till the day of Judgment. It shows that till the day of Judgment, his rejectors will remain.
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Quran: 5:14, 5:65 shows that the enmity between Jews and Christians will remain till the Judgment day
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You also believe that as per hadith, many rejectors will die of his breath
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‘IN MIN Ahlil kitab’ is for ‘hasar’ i.e., each and every Ahle kitab is included. We know that many of them have already died without believing in Jesus(as) being true prophet
Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
To me, second translation is not only illogical, but verifiable lie (I discussed it in post #76](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/539578-isa-as-quran-and-his-second-coming-4.html#post8733963))
The Urdu translation you quoted: Aur nahi hay koyi ahl-kitab may magar iman rakkhay ga Isa (AS) kay qatal per Apni maut say pahlay … is not only illogical but is verifiable lie, shows that whoever translated has twisted the translation to misguide people.
On the other hand translation that Muslim believe: Aur nahi hay koyi ahl-kitab magar zaroor iman lay ayea ga Isa (AS) per Isa (AS) kee maut say pahlay … is not only logical but a possibility in future.
Actually, I have already gone through the translations you quoted (post 76) in reply to Kchughtai quoting same translation (post 72). So, please go through post #76](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/539578-isa-as-quran-and-his-second-coming-4.html#post8733963) and if you have anything new, please bring in.
Re: Isa (AS), Quran and his second coming:
Thx for the explaination. As you have said that all the people of the book will believe in Isa(AS). Rest assure that is not going to happen till the Judgment day as per Holy Quran.
Brother, when Quran clearly mentions (Ayah 4:159) that all people of book would believe on Isa (AS) before the death of Isa (AS), then why you want to assure me that it would not happen? Do you want me to believe you and reject Quran?
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Are you saying that he will see the Judgment day without ever dying?
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Please read my posts again. Throughout I wrote that Isa (AS) would die before judgment day, but before his death all people of the book (without exception) would believe on Isa (AS) and what he stood for. That is, Isa (AS) was not killed, nor put on cross (crucified), nor was he son of God, etc.
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The statement is untrue for the following reasons:
1) Quran: In 3:55, Allah promised Jesus(as) that his followers will be exalted above the rejectors till the day of Judgment. It shows that till the day of Judgment, his rejectors will remain.
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Read ayah 3:55 with open mind and you will get your answer clearly, that is, rejecters of faith mentioned are not present day Christians or Jews but kuffars. :)
Ayah 3:55 ... Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
In above ayah Allah promises Isa (AS) that he will clear Isa (AS) from those who blaspheme ... shows that a time would come (in future) when no one would do blaspheme regarding Isa (AS). To me, that mean no one would consider Isa (AS) son of God nor would they believe that Isa (AS) was killed or was put on cross (crucified). One can understand this ayah if one realises that after second appearance of Isa (AS), there would be no Christians to blaspheme about Isa (AS).
[Blaspheme = considering Isa (AS) son of God instead of prophet (AS), considering that Isa (AS) was killed, or considering that Isa (AS) was put on cross]
As for: I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the day of resurrection.
'Who reject faith' does not mean Christians or Jews, but it means Kuffars who would be present once Allah would clear Isa (AS) from all blaspheme. Thus, above statement is clear, that is, once Allah would clear Isa (AS) of blaspheme Allah would make those who would follow Isa (AS) superior to kuffars (rejecter of faith).
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2) Quran: 5:14, 5:65 shows that the enmity between Jews and Christians will remain till the Judgment day
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From my understanding, when Ayah 5:14 and 5:64 talks about to/till the day of judgment, it only means until last days. That is obvious, as when Isa (AS) would appear, it would be during those last days.
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3) You also believe that as per hadith, many rejectors will die of his breath
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Are you trying to speculate what I believe and what I do not? Can you please stick to what I am saying what I believe without speculating?
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4) 'IN MIN Ahlil kitab' is for 'hasar' i.e., each and every Ahle kitab is included. We know that many of them have already died without believing in Jesus(as) being true prophet
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To me, when Allah says ‘min Ahlil Kitab’ (in ayah 4:159) ... it means, ‘all Ahle-Kitab’ that would be present on the occasion and does not mean all Ahle-kitab born from time of Adam (AS) to judgment day.
It is obvious, as there were Ahle-Kitab even before Isa (AS) was born and later Ahle-Kitab have varied beliefs regarding Isa (AS), so if one takes ‘each and every Ahle-kitab’ than 'ayah' would become illogical and untrue.