Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

[coolguylin]

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

OK All Qadiyani/Ahmadi/Mirzai (non-muslims)... Lets not go into details... Just give me the answer of a very small thing (by the way i asked this from ''detoxed'' and he ran away)

NO LONG MESSAGES... Answer me in short.. like i pose the question in short..
Surah Al-Ahzaab, Chapter 33 Verse 40

''MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) is not the father of any of your men, but He is the Messenger of ALLAH and the last (end) of the Prophets. And ALLAH is Ever All-KNOWER of everything''

Now ''detoxed'' says ''Kaatam'' means SEAL.. not ''end'' or ''last''... so lets take it as SEAL..

Now there is a hadith in support of this ''ayah''.. in which Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) Said ''there will be no prophet after me''..
So i have to ask all Ahmadis.. Who could understand the meanings of Holy Quran better?? MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) On Whom the Holly Quran was revealed...?? or some1 else?? (Nauzubillah)

I need simple and small answer...

[Seyyed_Naqvi]

**EVIDENCE FROM HOLY QURAN ON DEATH OF ISA (as) - from the writings of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (as):

**the Holy Prophetsa says that: “on the Day of Judgement some of my people will be driven to hell, and I will supplicate, ‘Lord! these are my companions’. Then it will be said to me, ‘You know not what they did after you’. Upon this I will say what a righteous servant of God, i.e., Jesus son of Mary, had said when he was asked: ‘Did you teach your people that they should worship you and your mother as gods?’ I will say what Jesus had then said: ‘I was witness over them while I was amongst them; but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the One to watch over them.’” (Bukhari)

That is a Sunni Hadith, which came about over 200 hundred years after The Last Prophet Mohammed PBUH pased away. How will you convince the beleivers of Imam Ali that Jesus is dead, when Imam Ali AS said of him (Jesus) "He IS my brother and my cousin"?

[Mr.Popat]

OK All Qadiyani/Ahmadi/Mirzai (non-muslims)... Lets not go into details... Just give me the answer of a very small thing (by the way i asked this from ''detoxed'' and he ran away)

NO LONG MESSAGES... Answer me in short.. like i pose the question in short.. Surah Al-Ahzaab, Chapter 33 Verse 40

''MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) is not the father of any of your men, but He is the Messenger of ALLAH and the last (end) of the Prophets. And ALLAH is Ever All-KNOWER of everything''

Now ''detoxed'' says ''Kaatam'' means SEAL.. not ''end'' or ''last''... so lets take it as SEAL..

Now there is a hadith in support of this ''ayah''.. in which Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) Said ''there will be no prophet after me''.. So i have to ask all Ahmadis.. Who could understand the meanings of Holy Quran better?? MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) On Whom the Holly Quran was revealed...?? or some1 else?? (Nauzubillah)

I need simple and small answer...

Although this is not relevant to the thread title, but ill give you a simple and small answer as you asked.

I do not mean to accuse you in any way, but what if i take the same hadith of 'there will be no prophet after me" and ask you what you think of it when Isa (AS) is to return to earth?

You might not have had time to quote the wordings of Hazrat Muhammad PBUH of his last sermon , in which he talked about him being the last. Hence, allow me to quote it in full context , so you may understand.

[QUOTE]
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
[/QUOTE]
Prophet Muhammad PBUH associated new prophet with new faith. As soon as someone claim something which is not in accordance to Muhammad SAAW's shariyah, He is undoubtedly a kazaab, a liar, a deceiver, a sinner , and hell-bounded.

Who could understand the meanings of Holy Quran better?? MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) On Whom the Holly Quran was revealed...?? or some1 else?? (Nauzubillah)

Dedicate some time in reading the last sermon of Huzoor SAW. Trust me, it wont take much of your time. Let me quote His saying once more:

[QUOTE]
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allaah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people
[/QUOTE]

how will the last ones understand his words 'better' than those who listen to him directly ?? getting any clue yet??

[coolguylin]

'there will be no prophet after me" and ask you what you think of it when Isa (AS) is to return to earth?

Yes Hazrat Esa (A.S) will come back on earth, as he was taken up alive...with his body , sould, and ''jaan''.. And He will not come as a ''Prophet'' this time.. Understand?? He will not come back as a ''Prophet''.. Now answer my question.. dont copy and paste the stuff which is un authenticated and febricated lies by Ahmadi/Qadiyani non-muslims.. i am not going to read it.. My question is very simple... Dont run away from what i have asked you.. I have answered your question in simple words.. answer my question from your brain and belief in simple words.. Not from copy paste like youtube maniacs.. Now i pose another question to you..
You people say that you read Holy Quran and believe on it.. It is many times written in the Holy Quran ''beshak ALLAH her cheez per Qaadir hai''.. right?? you believe on this.. ke ALLAH her cheez ke qaadir hai..right??
But when it comes to Hazrat Esa(A.S) taken up alive.. you dont believe this.. why?? Dont you believe that ALLAH can do everything??? Cant HE take Hazrat Esa (A.S) alive up in skies?? and Can't HE stop time for Him?? Isnt HE the creator of everything??? Is time not in HIS control? (Nauzubillah)..

Now answer my two questions genuinly.. with your own hand typing... DONT COPY PASTE MATERIAL FROM YOUR FALSE SITES!!!!!

And there is one more hadith shareef..saying that ''meri ummah ka ijmaa kabhi ghalat cheez pe nahi ho sakta''
But allll Muslim ummah has ''ijmaa'' on this that Qadiyani/Ahmadi/Mirzai are non-muslims, and their belief is wrong.. and their prophet is ''Kazzab'' ?? Would you like to answer this as well??

[Seyyed_Naqvi]

[quote="Mr.Popat, post:132, topic:209068"]

As Muslims we are to place Quran as the most authentic book and the final word of Allah. Whatever contradicts Quran should not be followed, whether it be hadith or sunnah. All Muslims follow this rule.

Theres also a hadith believed to be said by Prophet Muhammad SAW, he said.. there will be a time when nothing will be left of islam but its name, nothing will be left of Quran, but its scripture. The mosques will be filled by a lot of people but it will be lacking the true knowledge of Islam. Their leaders will be one of the worst creatures under the sky. Then, one or more people from persian origin will bring the imaan back.

(QUOTE)

Mirza didn't bring 'The Eeman back'. He tried to prove by The Qur'an that Jesus was dead, which is untrue and your interpretation of the word that you think is translated as 'death' in the Qur'an is also untrue. 'caused him to leave' is the true meaning, with Jesus being taken up to heaven.

Mirza's professing that he was a Prophet was the thing that finally cocked up your claim as being accepted by the rest of the muslim world as being Muslim. A prophet from Punjab. Really blasphemous, unbelievable claim.

Ayatollah Khomeini, to many would fit the bill on 'the man of persian origin' side, rather than the descendants and relatives of Tamerlaine and Ghenghis Khan.

Truly unbelievable. You talk about the 'spiritual' family of The Prophet Mohammed PBUH and completely cut Imam Hussain's AS ancestry out of the picture when it comes to MAHDIHOOD, giving it to the furthest thing from lineal truth as possible.

Doesn't 'family' mean anything to you? The soldiers of Yazid sent 'durood' in their salaat as well, then they finished the job of robbing the legitimate Caliphate of Imam Hussein AS from him by chopping off his head.

That's what you're doing in essence as well. The True inheritors of The Leaders of Islam have been shoved into the background once again, only for an imposter from the Mughals to claim it for himself.

Is his dying in the toilet seat an act of the 'reformation' as well? And what of the incomparable sacrifices of The Third Imam Al Hussain? How does your piffling MAHDI bring Justice for the innocent Martrys of Karbala? By throwing flowers on the Zionist oppressors in Palestine?

Where is the sacrifice? Where is the Justice? Where is the reform? Your TV station? Is that what we are waiting for, for the world to change, whilst millions of Muslims around the world are still living in degradating oppression?

Your Mahdi came. Your Mahdi died. And we have no belief in your laughable system of Caliphate for it either. It is no better than the one that lead on from Umar, to Uthman on to Mu'awiah and then Yazid.

A pear shape I say. An absolute pear shape.

[JeevayPakistan]

Now there is a hadith in support of this ''ayah''.. in which Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) Said ''there will be no prophet after me''.. So i have to ask all Ahmadis.. Who could understand the meanings of Holy Quran better?? MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) On Whom the Holly Quran was revealed...?? or some1 else?? (Nauzubillah)

I need simple and small answer...

The hadith in question is following:

The Holy Prophet (SAW) said to Ali Ibn Abi Talibra:

"You are to me as Aaron was to Moses, except that *Laa Nabiyya Ba'adi".
(Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi, Mishkat)

The last words are translated as: there is no prophet after me. On the basis of these words it is contended that if it were really possible for anyone to become a prophet, no one could have been more deserving than Hadhrat Ali (ra), who was not only a near relation of but succeeded the Holy Prophet (SAW) as the 4th Khalifa. The words were uttered when the Holy Prophet (SAW) was going to Tabook and appointed Hadhrat Ali (ra) as the Ameer at Medina after him. Hadhrat Ali (ra) was desirous of participating in the battle and did not wish to stay behind. The Holy Prophet (SAW), therefore, reminded Hadhrat Ali (ra) of the importance of his work by referring to Hadhrat Aaron (as) who was appointed Ameer of the Israelites when Moses (as) went to Mount Sinai. Hadhrat Aaron (as) was the brother of Hadhrat Moses (as) and a prophet of God. Hadhrat Ali (ra) was a cousin but not a prophet. The Holy Prophet (SAW) could not be blunt but he must not be misunderstood in such matters. Therefore, he added that he was not leaving a prophet behind him. The word Ba'ad means behind. (see Lane's Lexicon Book I, p. 225)

The context shows that the idea was to tell Ali (ra) that he was being left behind like Hadhrat Aaron (as) but he was not a prophet. The words cannot refer to any remote future. They were used and meant for that particular occasion. The word Ba'ad is often used in this sense. In verse 7:149 of the Quran this word is translated by Pickhall as `after I had left you'. The word Ba'ad is also used in the sense of Ma'a, i.e., with. (Lane's Lexicon Book I, p. 225) In this sense the sentence La Nabiyya Ba'adee would mean that there was no prophet with him.

It is curious to note that in the Shia traditions the words used are Laisa Ma'ee Nabiyyun, i.e., there is no prophet with me (Amalee). In other traditions the words reported are quite clear. The Holy Prophet (SAW) added "except that thou art not a prophet". (Tabaqati Kabeer, Vol. V., p. 15)

There is another tradition which is very clear: "Dost thou not desire to be what Aaron was to Moses except that thou art not a prophet". (Biharul Anwar, Kitabul Manaqib, Vol. 9, Iran) Taking the word Ba'ad to mean after, we can interpret the sentence in another way. If we go into the idiom of language we find that the words are not to be taken in their literal sense.

There is another tradition where the Holy Prophet (SAW) says: "When Chosroe dies there will be no Chosroe after him, and when Kaiser dies there will be no Kaiser after him." (Bukhari, Vol. IV, p. 91, Egypt) This is explained in Faithful Bari, Vol. VI as follows: "No Chosroe will administer the affairs of State as well as this Chosroe has done." Obviously it cannot mean that there will be no king after the Chosroe or Kaiser.

Muhyuddin Ibn Arabi interprets La Nabiyya Ba'adi by saying that there shall be no prophet who will cancel or go against the Islamic law of Hadhrat Muhammad SAW. (Fotoohati Makkiya Vol. I, p. 569; Vol. II, pp. 3, 64, 417)

Imam Muhammad Tahir Gujrati also says the same thing. (Takmala Majmaul Bihar, p. 85) Imam Sha'arani also interprets these words in the same way. (Al-Yawaqeet Wal Jawahir, Vol. II, p. 22)

Nawab Siddique Hasan Khan states the same. (Iqtarabus Sa'a, p. 162)

Hazrat Ayeshara, whose position is well known, says: "Say he is the Seal of the Prophets but do not say that there is no prophet after him". (Takmala Majmaul Bihar, p. 88) Imam Soyooti writes that Mogheera also expressed the same opinion. (Durri Mansoor) The other Hadith brought forward is:
Lau Kaana Ba'adi Nabiyyeen Lakaana Umaro.

"If there were a prophet after me, it would have been Umar."

The word Ba'ad as stated earlier also means with', and there is nothing here which should confine its meaning toafter'.

Therefore, the tradition should be translated as: "If there were a prophet with me it would have been Umar." In another tradition, the Holy Prophet (SAW) says: "If I were not raised it would have been you, O Umar." (Mirqat, Vol. V, p. 539) Another saying is: "If I was not raised, Umar would have been raised among you." (, p. 103)

These traditions would only show that Umar (ra) had an aptitude for a prophet, like Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) who brought the Islamic law. Therefore, the Hadith in question would mean that if a prophet were to bring a new law, it could have been Umar (ra). It cannot mean that there can be no prophet after Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him).

In another tradition, the Holy Prophet (SAW) clearly implies the opposite. He says: "If Ibrahim (his son) had lived, he would have been a Prophet." (Ibn Maja, Vol. I, p. 237)

He could not say this if it were absolutely impossible for anyone to become a prophet. This shows clearly that the Holy Prophet was clear in mind as to the continuity of prophethood after him. Another tradition points to the same effect when he says: "Abu Bakr is best of men after me except a prophet should appear." (Kanzul Ummal)

The next Hadith in support of this belief is: "I am the last of the Prophets and you are the last of peoples." (Muslim) The meaning of this is explained by another Hadith which runs as follows: "and my mosque is the last mosque." (Muslim, Kitabul Haj Fazlis Salat, p. 531)

It is clear that the Holy Prophet did not mean that there was to be no prophet after him, otherwise we shall have to conclude that he did not want the Muslims to build any other mosques. Obviously, what he means is that the religion brought by him is perfect and no one can cancel or modify it after him.
The use of the word Akhir (last) in this sense is quite common in the Arabic language. Imam Soyooti calls Ibn Taimiyya as the last of Mujtahideen (original thinkers and Jurists). (Al-Intibah Wan Nazir, Vol. III, p. 310, Hyderbad) An Arab poet uses the word Akhir (last) in the sense of perfect and unique, in Himasa, Babul Adab.

Testimony of Scholars of Islam:

Hazrat Mullah Ali bin Muhammad Sultan al Qari:
For instanct, Hazrat Mullah Ali bin Muhammad al Qari, a higly respected divine of the Hanafi sect whose opinions on the qustion of the finality of the prophethood often been quoted by the anti Ahmadiyyat authors like Maududi stated:

"According to the Ulemma, the words, La Nabiyya ba'adee means that no prophet in teh future shall be raised who shall abrogate the Law of the Holy Prophet (PBUH)"

Al Isha'at Fi Ashrat us Saat: pag 226

Hazrat Shah Wali Ullah:

This opinion was confirmed by teh patron saint of India, the Hakimul Milalt, Hazrat Shah Wali Ullah of Delhi, revered as the Mujaddid of the 12th Century. He said:

"From teh sayings of the Holy Prophet La Nabiyya Ba'adi and La Rasool we come to understand that prophethood that has ceased is the Law-bearing prophethood"

Qiratul 'Ainain Fi Tafadulul Shaikhain: Pg 39

[coolguylin]

[quote="Mr.Popat, post:132, topic:209068"]

As Muslims we are to place Quran as the most authentic book and the final word of Allah. Whatever contradicts Quran should not be followed, whether it be hadith or sunnah. All Muslims follow this rule.

Theres also a hadith believed to be said by Prophet Muhammad SAW, he said.. there will be a time when nothing will be left of islam but its name, nothing will be left of Quran, but its scripture. The mosques will be filled by a lot of people but it will be lacking the true knowledge of Islam. Their leaders will be one of the worst creatures under the sky. Then, one or more people from persian origin will bring the imaan back.

(QUOTE)

Mirza didn't bring 'The Eeman back'. He tried to prove by The Qur'an that Jesus was dead, which is untrue and your interpretation of the word that you think is translated as 'death' in the Qur'an is also untrue. 'caused him to leave' is the true meaning, with Jesus being taken up to heaven.

Mirza's professing that he was a Prophet was the thing that finally cocked up your claim as being accepted by the rest of the muslim world as being Muslim. A prophet from Punjab. Really blasphemous, unbelievable claim.

Ayatollah Khomeini, to many would fit the bill on 'the man of persian origin' side, rather than the descendants and relatives of Tamerlaine and Ghenghis Khan.

Truly unbelievable. You talk about the 'spiritual' family of The Prophet Mohammed PBUH and completely cut Imam Hussain's AS ancestry out of the picture when it comes to MAHDIHOOD, giving it to the furthest thing from lineal truth as possible.

Doesn't 'family' mean anything to you? The soldiers of Yazid sent 'durood' in their salaat as well, then they finished the job of robbing the legitimate Caliphate of Imam Hussein AS from him by chopping off his head.

That's what you're doing in essence as well. The True inheritors of The Leaders of Islam have been shoved into the background once again, only for an imposter from the Mughals to claim it for himself.

Is his dying in the toilet seat an act of the 'reformation' as well? And what of the incomparable sacrifices of The Third Imam Al Hussain? How does your piffling MAHDI bring Justice for the innocent Martrys of Karbala? By throwing flowers on the Zionist oppressors in Palestine?

Where is the sacrifice? Where is the Justice? Where is the reform? Your TV station? Is that what we are waiting for, for the world to change, whilst millions of Muslims around the world are still living in degradating oppression?

Your Mahdi came. Your Mahdi died. And we have no belief in your laughable system of Caliphate for it either. It is no better than the one that lead on from Umar, to Uthman on to Mu'awiah and then Yazid.

A pear shape I say. An absolute pear shape.

Mr Naqvi!! Sahaba R.A ka ihtraam har muslim pe laazim hai.. is ka khyaal keejeye.. Thanks..

[coolguylin]

The hadith in question is following:

The Holy Prophet (SAW) said to Ali Ibn Abi Talibra:

"You are to me as Aaron was to Moses, except that *Laa Nabiyya Ba'adi". (Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi, Mishkat)

The last words are translated as: there is no prophet after me. On the basis of these words it is contended that if it were really possible for anyone to become a prophet, no one could have been more deserving than Hadhrat Ali (ra), who was not only a near relation of but succeeded the Holy Prophet (SAW) as the 4th Khalifa. The words were uttered when the Holy Prophet (SAW) was going to Tabook and appointed Hadhrat Ali (ra) as the Ameer at Medina after him. Hadhrat Ali (ra) was desirous of participating in the battle and did not wish to stay behind. The Holy Prophet (SAW), therefore, reminded Hadhrat Ali (ra) of the importance of his work by referring to Hadhrat Aaron (as) who was appointed Ameer of the Israelites when Moses (as) went to Mount Sinai. Hadhrat Aaron (as) was the brother of Hadhrat Moses (as) and a prophet of God. Hadhrat Ali (ra) was a cousin but not a prophet. The Holy Prophet (SAW) could not be blunt but he must not be misunderstood in such matters. Therefore, he added that he was not leaving a prophet behind him. The word Ba'ad means behind. (see Lane's Lexicon Book I, p. 225)

The context shows that the idea was to tell Ali (ra) that he was being left behind like Hadhrat Aaron (as) but he was not a prophet. The words cannot refer to any remote future. They were used and meant for that particular occasion. The word Ba'ad is often used in this sense. In verse 7:149 of the Quran this word is translated by Pickhall as `after I had left you'. The word Ba'ad is also used in the sense of Ma'a, i.e., with. (Lane's Lexicon Book I, p. 225) In this sense the sentence La Nabiyya Ba'adee would mean that there was no prophet with him.

It is curious to note that in the Shia traditions the words used are Laisa Ma'ee Nabiyyun, i.e., there is no prophet with me (Amalee). In other traditions the words reported are quite clear. The Holy Prophet (SAW) added "except that thou art not a prophet". (Tabaqati Kabeer, Vol. V., p. 15)

There is another tradition which is very clear: "Dost thou not desire to be what Aaron was to Moses except that thou art not a prophet". (Biharul Anwar, Kitabul Manaqib, Vol. 9, Iran) Taking the word Ba'ad to mean after, we can interpret the sentence in another way. If we go into the idiom of language we find that the words are not to be taken in their literal sense.

There is another tradition where the Holy Prophet (SAW) says: "When Chosroe dies there will be no Chosroe after him, and when Kaiser dies there will be no Kaiser after him." (Bukhari, Vol. IV, p. 91, Egypt) This is explained in Faithful Bari, Vol. VI as follows: "No Chosroe will administer the affairs of State as well as this Chosroe has done." Obviously it cannot mean that there will be no king after the Chosroe or Kaiser.

Muhyuddin Ibn Arabi interprets La Nabiyya Ba'adi by saying that there shall be no prophet who will cancel or go against the Islamic law of Hadhrat Muhammad SAW. (Fotoohati Makkiya Vol. I, p. 569; Vol. II, pp. 3, 64, 417)

Imam Muhammad Tahir Gujrati also says the same thing. (Takmala Majmaul Bihar, p. 85) Imam Sha'arani also interprets these words in the same way. (Al-Yawaqeet Wal Jawahir, Vol. II, p. 22)

Nawab Siddique Hasan Khan states the same. (Iqtarabus Sa'a, p. 162)

Hazrat Ayeshara, whose position is well known, says: "Say he is the Seal of the Prophets but do not say that there is no prophet after him". (Takmala Majmaul Bihar, p. 88) Imam Soyooti writes that Mogheera also expressed the same opinion. (Durri Mansoor) The other Hadith brought forward is: Lau Kaana Ba'adi Nabiyyeen Lakaana Umaro.

"If there were a prophet after me, it would have been Umar."

The word Ba'ad as stated earlier also means with', and there is nothing here which should confine its meaning toafter'.

Therefore, the tradition should be translated as: "If there were a prophet with me it would have been Umar." In another tradition, the Holy Prophet (SAW) says: "If I were not raised it would have been you, O Umar." (Mirqat, Vol. V, p. 539) Another saying is: "If I was not raised, Umar would have been raised among you." (, p. 103)

These traditions would only show that Umar (ra) had an aptitude for a prophet, like Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) who brought the Islamic law. Therefore, the Hadith in question would mean that if a prophet were to bring a new law, it could have been Umar (ra). It cannot mean that there can be no prophet after Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him).

In another tradition, the Holy Prophet (SAW) clearly implies the opposite. He says: "If Ibrahim (his son) had lived, he would have been a Prophet." (Ibn Maja, Vol. I, p. 237)

He could not say this if it were absolutely impossible for anyone to become a prophet. This shows clearly that the Holy Prophet was clear in mind as to the continuity of prophethood after him. Another tradition points to the same effect when he says: "Abu Bakr is best of men after me except a prophet should appear." (Kanzul Ummal)

The next Hadith in support of this belief is: "I am the last of the Prophets and you are the last of peoples." (Muslim) The meaning of this is explained by another Hadith which runs as follows: "and my mosque is the last mosque." (Muslim, Kitabul Haj Fazlis Salat, p. 531)

It is clear that the Holy Prophet did not mean that there was to be no prophet after him, otherwise we shall have to conclude that he did not want the Muslims to build any other mosques. Obviously, what he means is that the religion brought by him is perfect and no one can cancel or modify it after him. The use of the word Akhir (last) in this sense is quite common in the Arabic language. Imam Soyooti calls Ibn Taimiyya as the last of Mujtahideen (original thinkers and Jurists). (Al-Intibah Wan Nazir, Vol. III, p. 310, Hyderbad) An Arab poet uses the word Akhir (last) in the sense of perfect and unique, in Himasa, Babul Adab.

Testimony of Scholars of Islam:

Hazrat Mullah Ali bin Muhammad Sultan al Qari: For instanct, Hazrat Mullah Ali bin Muhammad al Qari, a higly respected divine of the Hanafi sect whose opinions on the qustion of the finality of the prophethood often been quoted by the anti Ahmadiyyat authors like Maududi stated:

"According to the Ulemma, the words, La Nabiyya ba'adee means that no prophet in teh future shall be raised who shall abrogate the Law of the Holy Prophet (PBUH)"

Al Isha'at Fi Ashrat us Saat: pag 226

Hazrat Shah Wali Ullah:

This opinion was confirmed by teh patron saint of India, the Hakimul Milalt, Hazrat Shah Wali Ullah of Delhi, revered as the Mujaddid of the 12th Century. He said:

"From teh sayings of the Holy Prophet La Nabiyya Ba'adi and La Rasool we come to understand that prophethood that has ceased is the Law-bearing prophethood"

Qiratul 'Ainain Fi Tafadulul Shaikhain: Pg 39

My dear!! I did not ask you to give me a looong debate.. My questions are very simple and straight forward.. go ahead and have a look at them again.. and write with your own BRAIN... DONT COPY PASTE YOUR AHMADIYYA MATERIAL TO ME.. Write me answers by your own..

[JeevayPakistan]

@coolguylin

My dear!! I did not ask you to give me a looong debate.. My questions are very simple and straight forward.. go ahead and have a look at them again.. and write with your own BRAIN... DONT COPY PASTE YOUR AHMADIYYA MATERIAL TO ME.. Write me answers by your own..

So, is that all you have to say in response to my post? Can you deny any argument I've made on that post? If so, prove it and don't hide behind the bush.

[coolguylin]

So, is that all you have to say in response to my post? Can you deny any argument I've made on that post? If so, prove it and don't hide behind the bush.

Wait... who is hiding behind the bush??? Now i cant trust your fabricated material.. as you have your own translations of Holy Quran etc.. Why would i trust that?? rather write something logical.. instead you should better answer my questions.. and dont run away from answering them by asking me to prove you wrong!!

[coolguylin]

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

OO there is yet another question for you.... If mirza qadiyani (Lanatullah aleh) was maseeh-e-muood.. Then why is cross yet alive?? it must have broken?? shouldnt it??.. But i see around 2 billion christians in the world.. Dont you see them?? And swine is also there?? OOO they should have gone.. shouldnt they??? Answer me!!!

[coolguylin]

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Good videos for everyone to watch… and see the false (Kaafir) mirza qadiani (Lanatullah aleh)'s lies…

[coolguylin]

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

@JeevayPakistan](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/members/jeevaypakistan.html)
You are bound to run away… your falshood and false relegion will be rejected everywhere you go… You have to run from every forum because you are followers of a FALSE prophet.. and so you are out of Islam.. I hereby ask you for your own sake and your own betterment.. to do Toba… and become a muslim.. and stop believing on this false prophet mirza..

[Mr.Popat]

'there will be no prophet after me" and ask you what you think of it when Isa (AS) is to return to earth?

Yes Hazrat Esa (A.S) will come back on earth, as he was taken up alive...with his body , sould, and ''jaan''.. And He will not come as a ''Prophet'' this time.. Understand?? He will not come back as a ''Prophet''..

[QUOTE]
[61:7] And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, ‘O children of Israel, surely I am Allah’s Messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me. His name will be Ahmad.’ And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, ‘This is clear enchantment.’
[/QUOTE]

Read the Holy Quran. Everything is there, one only has to look for it. Have a look at the verse i quoted. This is wat we call killing 2 sparrows with 1 arrow.

First point to note : He is Jesus (AS), to whom Allah has bestowed prophethood. Allah doesnt take away His blessings from whomsoever he grants.
**
Seconds point to note** : He AS was just a prophet to people of Israel. He was given the knowledge of Torah and Injeel.

Third point to note : He AS is giving glad tiding of a messenger after him ( prophet Muhammad PBUH ) , this was perfect time to say that He (AS) will personally come after him (SAW). No where do we see that.

There are countless verses right from Quran addressing Jesus (AS) as the 'rasul Allah', prophet of Allah. Therefore, He WILL be a prophet. There is no question in that. Please quote me if you think im here to think He AS will be a prophet according to your belief, whensoever he returns.

Hazrat Esa (A.S) will come back on earth, as he was taken up alive...with his body , sould, and ''jaan'

Can I say you're wrong on the basis on Quran, if you dont mind?

[QUOTE]
[36:69] And him whom We grant long life — We revert him to a weak condition of creation. Will they not then understand?
[/QUOTE]

Jesus (AS) cant be alive at this point in time. If he is, he must be old. Therefore, your concept of Him coming back with his body,soul and jaan the way he was taken up is absurd !

[QUOTE]
[30:55] It is Allah Who created you in a state of weakness, and after weakness gave strength; then, after strength, caused weakness and old age. He creates what He pleases. He is the All-knowing, the All-Powerful.
[/QUOTE]

This is the sunnah of Allah. State of weakness first, then strength and then weakness again. None is exception in this regard. Jesus AS is no exception.

Now answer my question.. dont copy and paste the stuff which is un authenticated and febricated lies by Ahmadi/Qadiyani non-muslims.. i am not going to read it.. My question is very simple... Dont run away from what i have asked you.. I have answered your question in simple words.. answer my question from your brain and belief in simple words.. Not from copy paste like youtube maniacs.. Now i pose another question to you.. You people say that you read Holy Quran and believe on it.. It is many times written in the Holy Quran ''beshak ALLAH her cheez per Qaadir hai''.. right?? you believe on this.. ke ALLAH her cheez ke qaadir hai..right?? But when it comes to Hazrat Esa(A.S) taken up alive.. you dont believe this.. why?? Dont you believe that ALLAH can do everything??? Cant HE take Hazrat Esa (A.S) alive up in skies?? and Can't HE stop time for Him?? Isnt HE the creator of everything??? Is time not in HIS control? (Nauzubillah)..

You dropped your weapons very quick i must say. This is the last resort for you guys. Cant Allah do everything ? Please excuse me while i laugh. Question is not whether Allah can or cannot do everything. There is no doubt Allah is Qadir over everything.

You say why we dont believe when it comes to Jesus AS? well, its been so many pages yet, and no one has been able to provide me even ONE SINGLE reference from Quran, about Him going to heavens. Can you do that? Why do you expect me to believe His (AS)'s ascension to heavens when theres nothing in Quran about this issue.

Finally , another beautiful verse from Quran.

[QUOTE]
[4:79] Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you be in strongly built towers
[/QUOTE]

Sorry but I am a true believer of Quran, and whats written in it. The above verse means no escape from 'death' wheresoever you may be. Stars,moon,sky... no where is the place where you can dodge death. Not to mention again, Jesus (AS) was not an exception, unless otherwise proved.

Have fun. Hope you take interest in reading the verses from Quran i quoted above. Oh, not to mention theres nothing fabricated in them.

[Mr.Popat]

OO there is yet another question for you.... If mirza qadiyani was maseeh-e-muood.. Then why is cross yet alive?? it must have broken?? shouldnt it??.. But i see around 2 billion christians in the world.. Dont you see them?? And swine is also there?? OOO they should have gone.. shouldnt they??? Answer me!!!

Dont I just love Quran...

[QUOTE]
[17:82] And say, ‘Truth has come and falsehood has vanished away. Falsehood does indeed vanish away fast.’
[/QUOTE]

Explain this verse to me, and you'll get your answer yourself. Cross was broken exactly how falsehood has been vanished after the arrival of truth.

Care to explain why there is still falsehood all around the world, when it says that falsehood has vanished away?

PS: what do you think the mission of Maseeh e Maood (AS) is? to kill 2 billion christians in the world? or to literally break the cross from every single church of the world? wow..What a heartless/ merciless/ illiterate / evil maseeh e maood would that be..

[coolguylin]

Read the Holy Quran. Everything is there, one only has to look for it. Have a look at the verse i quoted. This is wat we call killing 2 sparrows with 1 arrow.

First point to note : He is Jesus (AS), to whom Allah has bestowed prophethood. Allah doesnt take away His blessings from whomsoever he grants.

Seconds point to note : He AS was just a prophet to people of Israel. He was given the knowledge of Torah and Injeel.

Third point to note : He AS is giving glad tiding of a messenger after him ( prophet Muhammad PBUH ) , this was perfect time to say that He (AS) will personally come after him (SAW). No where do we see that.

There are countless verses right from Quran addressing Jesus (AS) as the 'rasul Allah', prophet of Allah. Therefore, He WILL be a prophet. There is no question in that. Please quote me if you think im here to think He AS will be a prophet according to your belief, whensoever he returns.

Can I say you're wrong on the basis on Quran, if you dont mind?

Jesus (AS) cant be alive at this point in time. If he is, he must be old. Therefore, your concept of Him coming back with his body,soul and jaan the way he was taken up is absurd !

This is the sunnah of Allah. State of weakness first, then strength and then weakness again. None is exception in this regard. Jesus AS is no exception.

You dropped your weapons very quick i must say. This is the last resort for you guys. Cant Allah do everything ? Please excuse me while i laugh. Question is not whether Allah can or cannot do everything. There is no doubt Allah is Qadir over everything.

You say why we dont believe when it comes to Jesus AS? well, its been so many pages yet, and no one has been able to provide me even ONE SINGLE reference from Quran, about Him going to heavens. Can you do that? Why do you expect me to believe His (AS)'s ascension to heavens when theres nothing in Quran about this issue.

Finally , another beautiful verse from Quran.

Sorry but I am a true believer of Quran, and whats written in it. The above verse means no escape from 'death' wheresoever you may be. Stars,moon,sky... no where is the place where you can dodge death. Not to mention again, Jesus (AS) was not an exception, unless otherwise proved.

Have fun. Hope you take interest in reading the verses from Quran i quoted above. Oh, not to mention theres nothing fabricated in them.

Now dude.. you made my job very easy... Let me prove you false here...
You say that we should look into The Holy Quran.. right.. Yes i have no problem with that.. Next you mean that you are the one who can read the
Holy Quran, and understand it by yourself well?? Can you claim that??
Well here is one thing.. read carefully... Holy Quran was revealed on Whom??
MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) right?? So who can translate it better?? or who can understand it better?? you ?? me?? NOONE can understand the Holy Quran better than the Holy Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) HIMSELF ok?? So we have not only to recite the Holy Quran litteraly..But we should also seek guidance from Hadees Shareef and Seerat-e-Nabwi (S.A.W.W) right?? you agree uptill now??
Now when many hadeeth shareef say about Hazrat Esa (A.S) comming back in the end times, Then it means you deny all those haddees-e-nabwi (S.A.W.W) which deal with the comming of Hazrat Esa (A.S) in the end times...Now do you or your false mirza qadiyani (Lanatullah aleh) translate Holy Quran better??? and understand it??
Understand what i wrote... and you have NO answer to it.. i know..
And become a muslim..!! for your own sake..

[coolguylin]

Dont I just love Quran...

Explain this verse to me, and you'll get your answer yourself. Cross was broken exactly how falsehood has been vanished after the arrival of truth.

Care to explain why there is still falsehood all around the world, when it says that falsehood has vanished away?

PS: what do you think the mission of Maseeh e Maood (AS) is? to kill 2 billion christians in the world? or to literally break the cross from every single church of the world? wow..What a heartless/ merciless/ illiterate / evil maseeh e maood would that be..

hahahahahaha hilarious dude... hilarious... you made me laugh too much... are you insane?? do you live on some other planet?? Do you see cross weakened or strengthend after your maseeh-e-maood?? hahahahaha... now i am not sure if you use your brain or not.. because i am still laughing..at your reply.. what a maseeha... haha.. even if you ask a 3 years old kid, he will reply you that cross is not weakened.. though i think your maseeha strengthened the cross rather than breaking it..
and your non-muslim jamat... is suffering the most(according to you).. you are the most mazloom people on earth (according to you).. right?? so what kind of maseeha was he?? he couldnt even save his followers??
But the truth is.. that mirza qadiani (Lanatullah aleh) pleased english by starting a new Fitna in Muslims.. and helped english cause by denouncing ''Qitaal''.. so shame on him.. the kazzab-e-Azam.. (mirza qadiyani)..
I again ask you..you still have time.. Toba karo aur Muslim ho jao.. for your own sake..!!

[coolguylin]

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

Worth watching for everyone..
Allama Iqbal’s view about mirza qadiyani according to Dr. Israr Ahmed

[crankthatskunk]

[QUOTE]

you keep asking me to prove His death at the 'age' of 120/125. Now the 'age' in which he AS died is the issue you're raising. Not the death itself. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that you accepted His death now further gaining your knowledge on his death age.

[/QUOTE]

How many times do I have to repeat myself for you to understand, you are bound by the parameters set by you in your initial post. You wanted us to understand the claims of Mirza didn’t you?

I told you to read my last two posts but you still ignored. Tell me where I admitted that he As has died?

You are showing extreme ignorance, it is your own thread read the heading of this topic selected by you and *read your initial post for the parameters set by you. I will hold you accountable for both. *

[QUOTE]

You have no where to escape. You said you are not a believer of Isa (AS)'s death. I provided you with Quranic references in my first post about His death.

[/QUOTE]

Do you see how foolish you are Nr. Popat? Read the first quote above and this second quote both from your same post. Do you see the contradictions? In first quote you said. Now the 'age' in which he AS died is the issue you're raising. Not the death itself. But now you said
“You have no where to escape. You said you are not a believer of Isa (AS)'s death.

*Bravo, so I am not a believer in the death of Isa As? Right so you still don’t think I am disputing his as death? Ahh, you are a true follower of Mirza stupid and daft like him. *

[QUOTE]

That is it for your lies. Quote me from my pilot post and prove my stance wrong if you can.

[/QUOTE]

Mr. Popat have you been asleep all this time?
Facts,
1- You admitted you don’t know when the conversation between Allah SWT and Isa As presented by 3:55 took place.

2- You even went against the writings of Mirza.

3- You the one who selected Asad’s translation of 3:55, not me here is the proof in your own words

[QUOTE]

Since you provided 3 of the interpretation of the same verse, I think each three of them are acceptable by you. (Unless, you want me to go word by word on the issue of "case thee to die" or the other translation given by you..) Hence, I will be using the 3rd interpretation given by you and have provided you with the full verse.

[/QUOTE]

4- Even the age of Isa As is according to your own claims; here is the proof in your own words.

[QUOTE]

Again, when did the conversation took place between Allah and Isa (AS) ?

Answer : This conversation took place when Isa (AS) was alive. If it had taken place after His bodily ascension the verse would have been something like " I have cause thee to die" but the fact that it says "will cause thee to die" explains He AS at that time still was alive.

[/QUOTE]

During his life time? Right? So how long was his AS life time? Care to tell us? Can you deny you believe in his As life time to be 120/125 years? Even for arguments sake if I leave out what Mirza wrote, you are still bound by your own words. Tell me how long was his AS life period? When did he As die according to you? For what duration of his life these conversations listed in the holy Quran took place?

5- Do you have any answers for the preceding Verse 3:52 which mentions White Garbed one,? Who were these people? The conversation in 3:55 took place at the time of these people. So who were they? Do you have any answers?

6- I asked you do you believe Prophet Muhammad SAW was given the full knowledge by Allah SWT regarding ISA AS? You off course didn’t answer these questions. *I presented 3:61 which categorically decreed that Allah SWT did give Prophet SAW full knowledge of the matters concerning ISA AS. *

7- Then logically I asked you to produce single evidence where Prophet SAW said categorically and unequivocally that ISA AS has died. You have posted no proofs. Read the title of this thread chosen by you. I am well within my rights to ask you the proofs.

*Tell us Mr. Popat what have you proven? Please show us, instead of making unsubstantiated claims and showing your ignorance over and over again. *

*You have proven absolutely nothing. All you have done is to avoid answering any questions I asked from the Holy Quran and my request to provide authentic hadiths which can prove clearly, unambiguously and unequivocally death of Isa As. *

*That is the test you set yourself didn’t you when you started this thread, for us Muslims to understand the claims of Mirza? *

Fast moving forward to your post in response to a Muslim brother.

You quoted 61: 7 and then write;

[QUOTE]

***First point to note* : He is Jesus (AS), to whom Allah has bestowed prophet hood. Allah doesnt take away His blessings from whomsoever he grants.**

[/QUOTE]

I have already asked series of questions on this from KCC, also asked you to respond.

Can you tell us please; *did Prophet ISA As was still prophet in Kashmir? **If he was then **could you show us one single piece of evidence from the Holy Quran that this blessing as you wrote, not taken away from him? *

**Why there is absolutely no mention of 90 years of his As life according to you and Mirza in the Holy Quran. **Can you furnish your proofs from the Holy Quran.

Why there is no mention of his AS life in the authentic Hadiths? Remember what 3:61 said, Prophet Muhammad SAW was given full knowledge regarding Prophet Isa AS. Why he SAW never uttered a word about these 90 years?

[QUOTE]

***Seconds point to note* : He AS was just a prophet to people of Israel. He was given the knowledge of Torah and Injeel.**

[/QUOTE]

So who were these people of Israel, in Kashmir. Can you name one of them from Holy Quran, Hadiths or even from an authentic book of history? The second sentence in above quote once again shows lack of your understanding of Holy Quran. I will expose it in my articles, Inshallah

[QUOTE]

***Third point to note* : He AS is giving glad tiding of a messenger after him ( prophet Muhammad PBUH ) , this was perfect time to say that He (AS) will personally come after him (SAW). No where do we see that.**

[/QUOTE]

*This is link to the evidence in the Holy Quran which I stated above, Inshallah, it would be revealed to you. Also evidence from Mirza that he knew it too, and tried to lie about it as usual. *

Mr. Popat, you have absolutely proven nothing, proofs are displayed above point by point for your facilitations. What you had been doing is running away from every question. You have answered not one single relevant question at all. What hallow claims you are making? I dare you to show me proofs from your previous posts that you have answered above quoted questions. Most obliged.

[coolguylin]

Re: Isa (AS) dead or alive. In the light of Quran and Hadith.

30 Liars
Dearest brothers and sisters, how truthful the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W) was when he said: “In my Ummah, 30 liars will be born. Each will claim Prophethood and claim to be a Prophet, even though I am the last Prophet and there shall be no Prophet after me.
(Abu Dawood)
According to his prophecy, many liars claiming to be the Prophet have already appeared and will keep on appearing until the last to appear will be Dajjal. Return to Title
The Final Hour
Hadhrat Samurah ibn Jundab

reports that the HolyProphet

said in the sermon he delivered on the same day, there was a solar eclipse: That the final hour will not come until 30 liars will appear (and claim Prophethood). The last of the liars will be the one eyed Dajjal.
(Ahmed)
These lairs began to appear at the very time of the Holy Prophet

. Their aim was to create disunity among the Muslims. Some of these liars that claimed Prophethood in the past are listed below.

1. Aswad al Anasse – Claimed Prophethood whilst the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W)was still alive. The Sahâbâh

killed him before the Holy Prophet

passed away.
2. In the later part of the Holy Prophet

life ***Musailama ***claimed Prophethood. The Holy Prophet Muhammad

wrote a letter to him and named him Musailamah al Kazzab (the liar). Many Sahâbâh

gave their lives in the battle of Yamaamah which took place at the time of Hadhrat Abu Bakr

to kill Musailamah and his followers.
3. A woman called Sajah also claimed Prophethood and married Musailamah. However, when he was killed, she accepted Islam again.
4. Al Haarith al Kazzab claimed Prophethood in the Khilafah of Abdul Malik ibn Marwaan. He was also killed. There have been others like Mukhtar ibn Ubaid. However, the more recent liar was Ghulam Ahmad al Qadiani.