Mr. Popat
I asked you two questions and you have given a half answer to only one of them.
Your first question was not related to the topic, hence left unanswered. well , the answer is if your standing on one foot, then you're standing. You need the second foot to actually walk. You can call it standing with one foot, but it will not be for long as with 2 feet.
[QUOTE] I already agree with you that if you only take those two particular verses that you cite the normal position would be to assume that Isa (AS) has died, but there are more verses and more hadith that show otherwise. Upon closer inspection of the Qur'an it is clear that the position of Isa (AS) being alive outweighs that of him possibly being dead or have died. Our discussion inshaAllah will uncover this position.
I have yet to come across even one, where it says that Jesus AS is up in the heavens bodily alive. In contrary , i can find you countless verses against it. Only condition is if you take Jesus AS to be a human messenger. Now if you have doubts about him being humans, then its a total different debate altogether.
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I have prepared a full response but it is too lengthy to type up. My first point of contention is your criteria of using Qur'an and Hadith as a standard, but then you go on to say that such and such is what you believe and then you cite Qur'an references to show this.
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In my first post, i said i will not be talking about ahmadiyya jamaat and that is exactly what im doing. Not talking about Ahmadiyya jamaat. The reason of my belief of Jesus AS being dead is coming from Quran, which i set standard, and to which we both agree that not an alphabet of Quran can be changed.
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This is not the way to make Qur'an and Hadith the standard. The correct way to do it is to undertake a thorough search for all references pertaining to the life and death of Isa (AS). Collect them and sort them. This must be done to be unbiased. We cannot ignore any one reference and we cannot first formulate an opinion and then SELECT references to our choosing.
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I said earlier in the thread that there is only one verse which leads someone to hold a belief that Jesus AS is alive in heaven , and to which i also left my opinion. I am yet to see any quranic reference mentioning Jesus AS raised up alive to Allah, and will be coming back.
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So what I want to see first is a complete collection of references if you would not mind. Furthermore the references need to be independently verifiable. Are you sure you want to take on the task of scholars, because already I am stumped. But we can continue on your lines if you wish. Anyway to do a proper unbiased study of the topic the method is not to state first your belief and then use rationale and Qur'an and Sunnah to support it, rather you should approach the subject without preconceived notions and draw out conclusions as and when light hits the subject matter.
This is my point of contention on your pilot post, which you have opened the thread with.
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For now, the collection of references can be found in my first post. Please quote them and approve its authenticity. Reply me with your opinion about those verses. Then, provide me with verses from Quran supporting your belief and i'll reply to what i think. We will come to some conclusion for sure, if we follow this.