Is this true?

[vroom]

Re: Is this true?

@teggy

1. Now if you look back, you are saying help should be sought directly from Allah Ta’ala, and the Sahaba are turning to Hair Mubaraks, and Garment Sharifs. Clear difference there. A difference which should correct you on this point, after reflection

1. Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) was a prophet, and prophets have miracles. Awliya Allah may have karamah during their lifetime. Sahaba (r.a.) went to seek out Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) because he was a Prophet, and prophets receive revelation, and do not do anything which contradicts commands of Allah, and thus are infallible. That guaratee is not reserved for others; though there are pious men and women in every ummah and Allah blesses their actions. Here’s a hadith to the fact:

This is not the reply I was expecting. Its nice to see you affirming the infallibility of the Prophets. There is no guarantee on a particular follower person whether living or dead, unless you believe. And Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala makes the important distinction for us, that is your friend/helper be a Muslim. However lets not open up other subjects, the point was that you should have been corrected. The Hadith you quoted talks about a persons deeds coming to an end, and is more relevant in esal e sawab discussions. If you want to say his possible actions/movements/abilities come to an end, you are welcome to do that later.

What I labelled as number 1 above, in order to correct you requires you to have previously been saying/agreeing to things like "…Help should be sought from Allah alone…" with the meaning that it is shirk to seek through an intermediary or it should never be done through an intermediary.

With shirk related subjects it does not matter who help is being sought from, it is either shirk or it is not.

Likewise some people say ‘‘fa inni Qarib’’ Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala is closer to you then your jugular vein, and they say this means that we should not seek help through creation

Please affirm that when a person is sick one of the ways of seeking cure is to find and locate a personal property, lets say a Garment Sharif, of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam and to seek cure thereby through it

Affirming this should bring us closer in our understanding (to some understandings we’ll both be Mushriks :))

Anas b. Malik (Allah be pleased wish him) reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to Mina; he went to the Jamra and threw pebbles at it, after which he went to his lodging in Mina, and sacrificed the animal. He then called for a barber and, turning his right side to him, let him shave him; after which he tiimed his left side. He then gave (these hair) to the people. (Book 007, Hadith 2991)

distributed them for benefit

Anas reported: I saw when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) got his hair cut by thebarber, his Companions came round him and they eagerly wanted that no hair should fall but in the hand of a person. (Book 030, Hadith 5750)

eagerly awaited benefit

**Narrated IsraiI: Uthman bin 'Abdullah bin Mauhab said, “My people sent me with a bowl of water to Um Salama.” Isra’il approximated three fingers ('indicating the small size of the container in which there was some hair of the Prophet. 'Uthman added, “If any person suffered from evil eye or some other disease, he would send a vessel (containing water) to Um Salama. I looked into the container (that held the hair of the Prophet) and saw a few red hairs in it,” (Bukhari)

**Sought cure

**
**Here is the cloak of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). and she brought out to me that cloak made of Persian CLOTH with a hem of brocade, and its sleeves bordered with brocade and said: This wall Allah’s Messenger’s cloak with 'A’isha until she died, and when she died. I got possession of it. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to wear that, and we washed it for the sick and sought CURE thereby. (Sahih Muslim)

****Sought cure

2. A man came to RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam for the cure of his sight. The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam gave him a way for him to gain this help from Allah Ta’ala, and it included taking help from The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam [from afar I might add]. This should correct you

2. Again, refer to number 1.

It should not be done for Awliya? I would find it easier to understand if you were to use words such as shirk and impermissible.

Again what you are being called to affirm here is Making dua, calling upon Allah, and calling upon RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam in the same dua. This should correct you, meaning it should be more like a grenade to your understanding that is visibly appreciated as such by your own self.

3. I seek refuge with Allah from any wrong influences. Quran says to fear Allah, worship Allah alone, obey the Messenger (pbuh) and Allah (s.w.t.), and do righteous deeds, seek forgiveness for wrongdoings, and other beneficial commands for us all. Quran does say to ask those who know if you don’t know in terms of knowledge. Please help me understand which ayah of Quran sanctions going to the deceased and asking for Help.

I need some sort of settlement on the evidences already presented. One of my claims is that those evidences should ‘‘correct you’’ somewhat already. I mean your opposition of my positions over a prolonged period of time should have some substance to it, should it not?

My view on death is that once you die, your deeds come to and end except those that Rasool Allah (s.a.w) mentioned which carry on benefitting you after your death. It is true, my view may be simplistic, it is perhaps because Islam is a simple religion and the path to Allah is direct and straight forward without pitstops or the need to attend any mazaar as an article of faith to achieve success. May Allah guide me, and correct my incorrect understandings, surely I could use a lot more learning.

Your view on death is not the Islamic view as simple as it may be, and as simple as Islam is, and there is a need to attend a Blessed Garden Sharif that you MUST affirm, although I need time how to word this aspect correctly

The simple fact of the matter from my limited understanding is that the best place to seek help is from Salah and patience, and we have been informed by Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) that supplication made during sujood may most likely be accepted. Can there be any better form of seeking than this, to be able to ask Allah directly? Again, that’s just my understanding and surely there’s room for improvement on a lot of what I feel I have come to learn. Duaa is a powerful thing, and the living can do duaa as evident when Rasool Allah (s.a.w) asked Umar (r.a.) to make duaa for him (s.a.w.) upon performing Umrah after hijrah.

Sought cure is seeking help, as shown above and it is not limited to Salah and Patience

Although not entirely relevant to our discussion right now please share the Hadith (of Umar RadiAllahu Anhu) you mentioned, it may be relevant later with regards to Awliya. Help of living and dead people is the same, a person making dua for you is a person making dua for you. A person given help is a person given help. That is why a Garment sharif can be washed over and over and still provide cure

I don’t wish to keep going in circular debate because you have your understanding, and I have mine. May Allah guide us all, and give us the taufeeq to unite upon what is common rather than divide upon what is different.

This is not a circular debate, if you have noticed you have tried to make this discussion for a long time, so don’t feel I am keeping you here against your will. I am not, its your own effort. I do not actually mind to know what your understanding is, and see what we have here as opposed to my own understanding.