Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Only children raised by gay couples can tell you whether or not they feel they are abused or how badly they want a mother or a father. I bet you would find their answers surprising.
hmm.
I think I want to look into this question in future.
You have a semi-sh point.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Would you rather have a child being raised in orphanages, or worst on streets or by a gang, than to be adopted by a gay couple?
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Would you rather have a child being raised in orphanages, or worst on streets or by a gang, than to be adopted by a gay couple?
not against gay adoption.
against planing a child, knowing that he/she wont have a mother.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Why does it matter where a child started from if end result is same. Whether adopted or planned, a child without a mother is a child without a mother.
As long as the child is raised in a neutral environment, and certain sexual preference is bit forced on or expected from him then I see nothing wrong in it
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Since my post in nadz' thread is what inspired Monk to start this thread, here's my $0.02... I spent about 6 months casually getting to know this gay male couple (3 month preconception process to cycle/concieve/ivf and then first 12 weeks of pregnancy). They and their surrogate, were on roughly the same time table/schedule of treatment as I was so I would run in to them frequently on my dr appts. The surrogate lady was a female relative of one of the men (cousin or something) and they used an anonymous egg donor. Regardless of what religiously I feel about homosexuality or gay marriage or whatever, it warmed my heart to see the sheer love and excitement on their faces and in their voices. These men wanted to have and raise a child more then anything in the world. As someone who also needed medical intervention to conceive, we bonded over that. There is no doubt in my mind that they were perfectly capable of raising children without a "mother". I know a few gay couples who have children (mostly adopted, some biological) and they love and accept their children just like any other parent. One of my gay clients has a teenager who is straight/heterosexual...there is no pressure or "indoctrination" to become gay lol.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
So who gave gays right to have children ? Is this not child abuse, they hire a mom have child from her.
Now child is going to have no mother ????(not 100 fathers can compensate for a mother) In case of to mother he/she is not going to have father ??
I was coughing a lot at work. Someone was thinking of me it seems. Should that not be stopped ?? If no, why not ?? @Southie what the ---- ?
I was coughing a lot at work. Someone was thinking of me it seems.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Why does it matter where a child started from if end result is same. Whether adopted or planned, a child without a mother is a child without a mother.
As long as the child is raised in a neutral environment, and certain sexual preference is bit forced on or expected from him then I see nothing wrong in it
I assume the sexual preference forcing or expectation applies to all persuasions?
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Since my post in nadz' thread is what inspired Monk to start this thread, here's my $0.02... I spent about 6 months casually getting to know this gay male couple (3 month preconception process to cycle/concieve/ivf and then first 12 weeks of pregnancy). They and their surrogate, were on roughly the same time table/schedule of treatment as I was so I would run in to them frequently on my dr appts. The surrogate lady was a female relative of one of the men (cousin or something) and they used an anonymous egg donor. Regardless of what religiously I feel about homosexuality or gay marriage or whatever, it warmed my heart to see the sheer love and excitement on their faces and in their voices. These men wanted to have and raise a child more then anything in the world. As someone who also needed medical intervention to conceive, we bonded over that. There is no doubt in my mind that they were perfectly capable of raising children without a "mother". I know a few gay couples who have children (mostly adopted, some biological) and they love and accept their children just like any other parent. One of my gay clients has a teenager who is straight/heterosexual...there is no pressure or "indoctrination" to become gay lol.
Please tell me they did not think, by getting egg from else where they are not using mother as mother of the child.
You know to tell you the truth it comes down to tempering the nature.
Some people think its ok. I think its not.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Please tell me they did not think, by getting egg from else where they are not using mother as mother of the child.
You know to tell you the truth it comes down to tempering the nature. Some people think its ok. I think its not.
I have the ability to separate my personal/religious views on egg/sperm donors from my compassion and kindness towards others. How I feel about using an egg donor is irrelevant. If in vitro fertilization would have failed for us, my husband and I would have adopted, not used a surrogate/donor because that goes against our beliefs as Muslims. BUT...and it is a huge but...I will never stand in judgement of another couple, gay or straight, for a decision that they make. There is no compulsion in Islam, and I'm no one to label a gay parent as abusive or injust, just because they are sinning differently then me.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
I have the ability to separate my personal/religious views on egg/sperm donors from my compassion and kindness towards others. How I feel about using an egg donor is irrelevant. If in vitro fertilization would have failed for us, my husband and I would have adopted, not used a surrogate/donor because that goes against our beliefs as Muslims. BUT...and it is a huge but...I will never stand in judgement of another couple, gay or straight, for a decision that they make. There is no compulsion in Islam, and I'm no one to label a gay parent as abusive or injust, just because they are sinning differently then me.
But what do you think about getting egg from some one else. Is that suppose to make mother feel indifference towards the child? And nature is going to say... I see you have some one else egg.. now you have all that motherly feeling towards your own flesh and bones.
I know you have nothing to do with this. You just happen to know them and find them kind.
I just find the whole business bizarre and extremely twisted. More you look into it more unpleasant it gets.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
At least they should man up and admit they are taking a mothers child.
Not "oh we put some one else egg ... now we have nothing to do with you"
But you know what.. once the convinced them self on "man with man is ok" then I think they break basic sense of decency attributed to human beings.
Unbelievable..
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
At least they should man up and admit they are taking a mothers child. Not "oh we put some one else egg ... now we have nothing to do with you"
But you know what.. once the convinced them self on "man with man is ok" then I think they break basic sense of decency attributed to human beings.
Unbelievable..
A person who uses an egg donor *or **a sperm donor (because believe it or not, sometimes it is the mans fault lol) is not stealing or taking away anyone's child lol...these donors are mostly anonymous, and the person giving up their eggs or sperm **chose * to do so. Nobody tied them down and inserted a suctioning needle into the ovary to extract an egg or made them ejaculate into a cup by force. Donors donate by choice, most often for money. Again, I don't agree with it, and it would make me uncomfortable but I'm not going to call somebody sick or twisted or perverted or judge them because they decided to either a) donate themselves or b) use a donor/surrogate to conceive.
And can I just point out that until an egg is fertilized by a sperm (conception) you have nothing...just a bunch of inactive cells. Heartbeats are detected after 6 weeks gestation and according to Islamic belief, the soul is breathed into the fetus after 120 days. So yea, I find it comical to say that a baby is being stolen from a mother if a gay male couple uses an egg donor.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
.
You misunderstood me. Baby is being taken form the mother who makes it inside of her.
With the illusion that, foreign egg make it not her baby.
Not being taken from the egg woman.
At least people(such gays) should have decency to admit its that woman's child who host it, who makes it.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
So who gave Muslims right to have children ? And force their religion on the child? Is this not child abuse?
Now child is going to have no choice in terms of whether to be an atheist or I'm which religion to follow????(not even what many consider ot be a good relihion for themsslves can compensate for a child losing his or her right to choose) ??
Should that not be stopped ?? If no, why not ?? @Southie what the ---- ?
In my opinion you are being too harsh on Muslims. You need to be tolerant about people's religions as much as you are tolerant of sexual orientation.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
I assume the sexual preference forcing or expectation applies to all persuasions?
Fair point.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
In my opinion you are being too harsh on Muslims. You need to be tolerant about people's religions as much as you are tolerant of sexual orientation.
Southie you did a smart thing actually in that quoted post of Monk and you made your point. But i think Monk is saying something different. Yet he's on totally extreme side calling it "child abuse".
If I've got him right (which is a rare case itself) he's saying that gays who get babies through surrogate business as an example is wrong and it deprives the baby of their mother. But then one should call the entire surrogate baby business wrong which actually has now become a industry. I may go with that. But isolating gays in this particular case is not fair IMO.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Southie you did a smart thing actually in that quoted post of Monk and you made your point. But i think Monk is saying something different. Yet he's on totally extreme side calling it "child abuse". If I've got him right (which is a rare case itself) he's saying that gays who get babies through surrogate business as an example is wrong and it deprives the baby of their mother. But then one should call the entire surrogate baby business wrong which actually has now become a industry. I may go with that. But isolating gays in this particular case is not fair IMO.
Yes. I did get that point Mr. Monk was making. But there is also an undercurrent of disapproval bordering on disdain re the gay lifestyle - at least in one of his posts.
As you correctly pointed out, if the target was surrogate parents, that would be one thing. But the disapproval appears to extend only to gays.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
In my opinion you are being too harsh on Muslims. You need to be tolerant about people's religions as much as you are tolerant of sexual orientation.
Southie put your umbrella theories away for a min.
Address this.... is this fair to plan on a kids behalf that he would be raised with out a mother ????????????
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
Southie you did a smart thing actually in that quoted post of Monk and you made your point. But i think Monk is saying something different. Yet he's on totally extreme side calling it "child abuse". If I've got him right (which is a rare case itself) he's saying that gays who get babies through surrogate business as an example is wrong and it deprives the baby of their mother. But then one should call the entire surrogate baby business wrong which actually has now become a industry. I may go with that. But isolating gays in this particular case is not fair IMO.
Ok get this.
A man and women have fine egg and sperm.
Women can not have child.
Some woman gave them their body.
Now because they want child to be their as much as possible... they use their sperm and egg.
Now gays.
They don't have egg.
So the go get anonymous egg...
That suppose to make child not that of the mother who kept him in her ??
But I think you answerd my question. Since its an industry not it must have its own ethics.
Which may not be fair.. but then when is any industry fair.
Re: Is this not child abuse ? (gay thing)
But in general I am very surprised how people, start thinking abstractly, when they have suggesting from out side.