Is this a true Hadees??????

Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424

Hazrat Aisha (R.A) reported that Sahla Bint Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn Umar (the words are): Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.
Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424.

[quote]
Originally posted by hello hello:
** Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424

Hazrat Aisha (R.A) reported that Sahla Bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? ** Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled ** and said: I already know that he is a young man. Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn Umar (the words are): ** Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed. **
[/quote]

Ibrahim says; salaams to all.

yes! the hadith is right and had been given in a jovial manner and conveyed as such, so that Abu Hudhaifa would not have any more reason to feel disgust when Salim visits them in their house.

** BUT most of all, it has been given a commentary NO: 1905 and according to the commentary : What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him **

This meant that Salim was unlawful for her and Abu Hudhaifa had nothing to be annoyed about in future., IF he happens to visit their house.

Allah (swt) knows best.

I dont get this

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif


“kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat”

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**

yes! the hadith is right
What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him **

Allah (swt) knows best.

**
[/quote]

Bhai Ibrahim Salam: Doesn't Quran says that only a child UNDER 2 years of age may be suckled by the mother. It is clear in the Quran.

me neither

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by hello hello:
Bhai Ibrahim Salam: Doesn't Quran says that only a child UNDER 2 years of age may be suckled by the mother. It is clear in the Quran.

[/quote]

Ibrahim says; salaams to all

Apparently you were unable to digest the hadith based on the keywords that I had highlighted.

1) This is a case of Jealousy by the Husband (Abu Hudhaifa) towards Salim

** When the Prophet heard it he “smiled” **

The only way to resolve this problem was to tell/convince her husband that the she considered Salim “like her foster son” and nothing more

Hence when the Prophet (pbuh) conveyed that She should “suckle him” IT meant that she should inform Abu Hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son and he has nothing to feel annoyed about. . Since the Prophet (pbuh) had been consulted and his advise being noted by Abu hudhaifa , Abu hudhaifa had nothing to be annoyed about anymore.

** The reason why the Prophet (pbuh) “laughed” after conveying that she should suckle him. **

Hence do not confuse this hadith (which is only applicable to this case) with sucking of children

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**

Hence when the Prophet (pbuh) conveyed that She should “suckle him” IT meant that she should inform Abu Hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son and he has nothing to feel annoyed about.

**
[/quote]

Salam Ibrahim Bahai: If you are correct in suggesting that it meant only to inform abu hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son, then why did she argue that how can she suckle a grown up man. This sentence alone means that they were talking about actually physically doing that.
"whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man?"

Another hadees in the same chapter goes as follows.
Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3428
Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), saying to Aisha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon She (Aisha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah's messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahlah Bint Suhail) said: He has a beard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and , by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa.

again in this hadees there is a reluctance in doing the act, because the suhail is a grown up man with a beard. Otherwise why would somebody will show reluctance if it meant only to inform that person that she considers him like a foster child.
.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by hello hello:
Salam Ibrahim Bahai: If you are correct in suggesting that it meant only to inform abu hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son, then why did she argue that how can she suckle a grown up man. This sentence alone means that they were talking about actually physically doing that.

Ibrahim says: salaams to all.
My friend, you are reading into that hadith more than what it conveys. There was NO argument but the reconfirmation that the person (Salim) was NOT a child anymore, that can be suckled, which The Prophet (pbuh) was well aware of. (which would be the reason which made the Prophet (pbuh) smile upon hearing it and laugh after having told the remedy for it.)

** In addition you have forgotten the commentary that I posted earlier which conveyed how she was to obtain some milk from her person).
On the other hand the second hadith tells us that the act was done, which means it was not revealed to Abu hadhaifa but actually enacted as conveyed by the Prophet (pbuh). Either way there is NO problem, since the matter was resolved.

The subsequent hadith 3429 and 3430 tells you that it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa ( who incidentally grew up in that family and reached puberty in that family environment which allowed his free movement in their presence. , hence the problem and the remedy given by the Prophet (pbuh) for that situation only) .

This does not mean that we should do this If we want to make any grown up man a foster child.

My earlier suggestion that implied that it was only meant to be conveyed to Abu Hudhaifa is obviously in error since I failed to read the other hadith which reveals that the act was done BUT not by breast feeding the man BUT by giving some of her milk after obtaining it from her person.

Let me repeat! this is specific for this case only kindly read the entire package of hadiths from 3424 to 3430 to understand this better.

Are you interested in "clarifying" this Hadith or are you calling ISLAM into question?!


"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"

[This message has been edited by Ali_R (edited August 23, 2001).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**

Quote*****"......made the Prophet (pbuh) smile upon hearing it and laugh after having told the remedy for it.)"

Ibrahim Bahai: Rasool(pbuh) does not make jokes, as it says in quran that Rasool(pbuh) doesn't say anything on his own except only what Allah wants him to say.

Quote*******".....I posted earlier which conveyed how she was to obtain some milk from her person".

Ibrahim Bahai: It says in hadees to "suckle him", and in those days it meant only breast feed. it doesn't say anywhere to obtain some milk from her person.

Quote*****".....second hadith tells us that the act was done, which means it was not revealed to Abu hadhaifa.

Ibrahim Bahai: where does it says in hadees that act was done and it wasn't revealed to Abu Hudaifa?????

Quote****** "....it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa .... hence the problem and the remedy given by the Prophet (pbuh) for that situation only) ".

Ibrahim Bahai: Rasool (pbuh) doesn't suggest anything for a specific case only, If he disallowed/Allowed anything for a common muslim than it is allowed/disallowed for every muslim.**

[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
**Are you interested in "clarifying" this Hadith or are you calling ISLAM into question?!

**
[/quote]

I am only describing a hadees quoted few times in Sahai Muslim.

Basically this hadees suggests that any women can make a non mehram muslim into a mehrum muslim by breast feeding him regardless of his age. Even a man with beard can be breast fed by any women to make him mehram for her.

The reason I am saying all this is to prove that this hadees is wrong, and Sahai Satta which includes sahai muslim are not totally sahai. the above hadees doesn't match with Quran or sunnah or ikhlaq and we should not believe in it. Believe only what matches with Quran and Rasool's Itrat.

Asalamoelekum

Kindly refrain from trying to prove something wrong unless you have the expertise to do so. you are no muhaddis and it is a very serious matter to challange vevery thing that does not appeal to your mind.

it is very clear that a woman cannot show her breast to a man, other than her husband or her infants. As it is not possible for the Prophet to allow something that is contraary to a stated law therefore you would need to study that hadees again and ask an expert in the matter to clarify it.

i completly agree to the commentry provided by Br. Ibrahim wherein it states that the milk was to be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off. there cannot be better explanation.

[quote]
Originally posted by hello hello:
** I am only describing a hadees quoted few times in Sahai Muslim.

Basically this hadees suggests that any women can make a non mehram muslim into a mehrum muslim by breast feeding him regardless of his age. Even a man with beard can be breast fed by any women to make him mehram for her.

The reason I am saying all this is to prove that this hadees is wrong, and Sahai Satta which includes sahai muslim are not totally sahai. the above hadees doesn't match with Quran or sunnah or ikhlaq and we should not believe in it. Believe only what matches with Quran and Rasool's Itrat.

**
[/quote]

[quote]
Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
**

i completly agree to the commentry provided by Br. Ibrahim wherein it states that the milk was to be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off. there cannot be better explanation.

**
[/quote]

Salam o Alaikum: I think you need to study this hadees once again. where does it say that milk should be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off???
As I said earlier that surprise and reluctance to suckle a grown up man by this woman tells you that it was meant to breastfeed the man.
Did you notice that Ibrahim Bahai has changed his interpration so many times in this post. It is probably because he doesn't want to accept the truth that this hadees is wrong.
also notice that regulars of this forum are not responding here simply because it is an emberessing hadees in a sahai book.

Hello

Just to clarify a number of issues. The Propet PBUH was NOT a robot as you have implied in an earlier post. The Prophet PBUH only spoke what Allah ordained and ordered concerning the revelation of the Qur'aan!!

Do you honestly believe that the Prophet PBUH kept silent for 23 years and only spoke once the revelation came through!!!

What do you think the word A'Hadeeth means!

Did not the Prophet PBUH play with his children and grandchildren!!

How do you categorise comments and actions which were not revelation!! Please specify.

The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning.

However, if you want to challenge this A'Hadeeth, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place. You need to contact someone like the Grand Mufti of Arabia or Baghdad or the Al Azhar Academy!!

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Hello

Just to clarify a number of issues. The Propet PBUH was NOT a robot as you have implied in an earlier post. The Prophet PBUH only spoke what Allah ordained and ordered concerning the revelation of the Qur'aan!!

Do you honestly believe that the Prophet PBUH kept silent for 23 years and only spoke once the revelation came through!!!

What do you think the word A'Hadeeth means!

Did not the Prophet PBUH play with his children and grandchildren!!

How do you categorise comments and actions which were not revelation!! Please specify.

The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning.

However, if you want to challenge this A'Hadeeth, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place. You need to contact someone like the Grand Mufti of Arabia or Baghdad or the Al Azhar Academy!!

**
[/quote]

Quote******........"Do you honestly believe that the Prophet PBUH kept silent for 23 years and only spoke once the revelation came through!!!

Whenever anything happened which involved guidence for muslims, our Nabi(pbuh) said only what our Allah wanted him to say.
and it was since he was born, because He pbuh was a born Rasool. And My Rasool pbuh did not make jokes when it came to issue which were for muslims guidence.

Quote********.......What do you think the word A'Hadeeth means?

When it came to Hadeeth, it was also 100% what Allah wanted our Rasool pbuh to say. My Rasool's pbuh every action was based on Allah's guidence, and thats why we never find any conflicts in MY Rasool's actions and sayings. MY Rasool pbuh did not joke when it came to the guidence of muslim!!!!

Quote*****....."The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning.

Absolutely, this Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's meaning, there is no reason to interpret it anyother way. I am only not sure about its authenticity, thats all.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

I agree. we should not take “sihah sitta” as “ALL CORRECT and PERFECT”, there may be ahadith which might contradict Quran in which case QURAN overrides/overrules such hadith. because compilation of ahadith was done waaaaayyy after Quran, and Quran is given promise by Allah to be saved till the Doomsday while no promise for hadith / sunnah. also these ahadith/sunnah narrations have reached us through different generations so memories of people involved may not be considered as perfect also.


We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited August 25, 2001).]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by hello hello:
Quote*****“…made the Prophet (pbuh) smile upon hearing it and laugh after having told the remedy for it.)”

Ibrahim Bahai: Rasool(pbuh) does not make jokes, as it says in quran that Rasool(pbuh) doesn’t say anything on his own except only what Allah wants him to say. *

Ibrahim says: Hi hello hello, sorry for my delayed response to this was busy anyway…do me a favor just use my name as is, without adding to it. My name is Ibrahim Not Ibrahim bahai.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Firstly where does it (the hadith or my explanation) tell you that it was a joke??

The point I was conveying is that those keywords indicate that this was a specific hadith for that specific problem and should not be misconstrued to be a general rule to make adults as foster children.

Second Whatever revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) by Allah (swt) becomes revelation and becomes part of the Qur’an and parts of whatever he did has been recorded faithfully as hadiths. NOT every action and every word uttered can and will be found in a complete form in the Qur’an or hadiths.

It only takes some common sense to understand this. We are to USE our brains and that is why some of us may understand various matters more easily than others because our capacity to comprehend differs.

Hence the notion that the Prophet became a “machine” for 23 years is rather naive and shows lack of knowledge on your part.

  • Quote*******“…I posted earlier which conveyed how she was to obtain some milk from her person”.

Ibrahim Bahai: It says in hadees to “suckle him”, and in those days it meant only breast feed. it doesn’t say anywhere to obtain some milk from her person. *

Ibrahim says: That’s funny, because my book has the commentary which says exactly what I wrote earlier

Sahih Muslim, English version, book 2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424

Hazrat Aisha (R.A) reported that Sahla Bint Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man.** 1905 ** Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn Umar (the words are): Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

** NOTE NO1905 (printed at the bottom of that page) reads: “What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him” **

the above note 1905 is printed on that page , are you claiming that it has vanished in your copy???

  • Quote*****"…second hadith tells us that the act was done, which means it was not revealed to Abu hadhaifa.

Ibrahim Bahai: where does it says in hadees that act was done and it wasn’t revealed to Abu Hudaifa??? *

Ibrahim says; hmm….are you trying to twist my words? First I only replied to you on the basis of hadith no 3424…which led me to comment that it was only meant to be conveyed

I wrote eralier :”The only way to resolve this problem was to tell/convince her husband that the she considered Salim “like her foster son” and nothing more “

To refute this you quoted hadith no 3428 which I had failed to read when I made the above assertion. You posted:-

Sahih Muslim, English version, book 2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3428

Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), saying to Aisha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon She (Aisha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah’s messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah’s messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah’s messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahlah Bint Suhail) said: He has a beard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. ** She said: (I did that) and , by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. **

Now it become quite obvious that you are NOT trying to understand what the hadiths conveys but trying to insinuate that the hadith is an error or the Priophet (pbuh) was unwise in saying such things.

Unfortunately Allah (swt) already know that you will be doing this that is why he reveled this in advance to Muslims

3: 7 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. ** But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical ** seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah and ** those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord”; and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding **
.

** Most of all, for Christians this act (hadith) would amount to a miracle , since what the prophet (pbuh) conveyed solved the problem without anyone having to feel bitter about it. Salim was not thrown out of the home. Abu hadhaifa did not feel disgust anymore and his wife had nothing to worry about anymore. **

Since Muslims do not stress on miracles, this hadith is not being used as such

  • Quote****** "…it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa … hence the problem and the remedy given by the Prophet (pbuh) for that situation only) ".

Ibrahim Bahai: Rasool (pbuh) doesn’t suggest anything for a specific case only, If he disallowed/Allowed anything for a common muslim than it is allowed/disallowed for every muslim. *

Ibrahim says: Oh ! are you also having a slave child that grew up in your family who was accepted by you ( when he was a child) and after having matured was disliked (out of jealousy) in your wife presence?? (assuming your wife too had got around him well when he was a child and would not be able to dislike him just because he had grown up to be a man)

If you are facing this situation or know someone who does. by all means go ahead and suckle that man

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

without breaking the Islamic rules that forbids a woman to expose herself.(other than to her husband)

Devoted to truth
Ibrahim

The tricks of the devil/deceivers ties them into knots.

[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited August 25, 2001).]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by hello hello:

where does it say that milk should be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off???

Ibrahim says; try reading the note no 1905 on that book.

hello hello: As I said earlier that surprise and reluctance to suckle a grown up man by this woman tells you that it was meant to breastfeed the man.

Ibrahim says: Why do you think the Prophet (pbuh) laughed??

hello hello: Did you notice that Ibrahim Bahai has changed his interpration so many times in this post. It is probably because he doesn't want to accept the truth that this hadees is wrong.

Ibrahim says: Oh! kindly show me how many times I have chnaged and what has been changed .

You mean just becuse you lack the knowledge of what that hadiths conveys I have to follow you blindly??

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
**

Q….kindly show me how many times I have chnaged and what has been changed .

1)the hadith is right and had been given in a jovial manner

“Jovial manner” means it was said as a humor, as Prophet pbuh did not mean it.

2) IT meant that she should inform Abu Hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son and he has nothing to feel annoyed about. .

“she should inform” means exactly what it sounds , inform only..

3) how she was to obtain some milk from her person

Now it is little more than just inform, she was suppose to obtain milk from her person.

4) it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa.

means It was made Halal for Abu hudaifa.

5) This does not mean that we should do this If we want to make any grown up man a foster child.
Means we should not do this. It was a BAD act may be?
6) If you are facing this situation or know someone who does. by all means go ahead and suckle that man without breaking the Islamic rules

What??? You just said we should not do this, now "doing this" won’t break Islamic rules.

Quote******do me a favor just use my name as is, without adding to it. My name is Ibrahim Not Ibrahim bahai.
I was only trying to give you some respect, But I guess you are not used to it or do not deserve it may be…

Quote****Firstly where does it (the hadith or my explanation) tell you that it was a joke??

I am not an English scholor but I think Jovial means “with humor”. You said “the hadith is right and had been given in a jovial manner”

Quote*****Second Whatever revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) by Allah (swt) becomes revelation and becomes part of the Qur’an

Not true!!! There are many Hadees e Qudsi that are not part of the quran but were revealed by Allah.

Quote****……NOTE NO1905 (printed at the bottom of that page) reads: “What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him

This is only the interpration of sahih muslim .
You said” The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning”. Why interpret it any different way?????

Quote****….you are NOT trying to understand what the hadiths conveys but trying to insinuate that the hadith is an error or the Priophet (pbuh) was unwise in saying such things.

(NB), again you are making it up, the whole argument is that My Rasool pbuh did not say anything like that, This is a false hadees in an authentic book of yours.**

  • hello hello: 1)the hadith is right and had been given in a jovial manner “Jovial manner” means it was said as a humor, as Prophet pbuh did not mean it. *

Ibrahim says; Oh ! you mean the rest of the contents together with the instruction on how the problem was to be solved becomes a JOKE because I said it was conveyed in a Jovial manner?

Jovial manner and Joke are two different things

Read!

joke \"jÖk\ noun

1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; esp : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist
2

b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something

(2) : an instance of jesting : KIDDING
c : PRACTICAL JOKE
d : LAUGHINGSTOCK

©1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved.

NOW COMPARE

jovial adjective (1592)

1 cap : of or relating to Jove

2 : markedly good-humored esp. as evidenced by jollity and conviviality syn see MERRY

©1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved.

*Ibrahim says: Now it is apparent that YOUR original INTENTION IS TO CAST DOUBTS ON THE HADITHS AND NOT a matter that you wished to clarify in this forum . which means that NO matter what you will be twisting and turning the issue until you have it your way. *

  • hello hello: 2) IT meant that she should inform Abu Hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son and he has nothing to feel annoyed about. . “she should inform”

means exactly what it sounds , inform only.. *

Ibrahim says; Did my reply to you concerning this obvious error on my part was rejected on account of what?

Did I not tell you clearly that when you quoted the hadith No 3424 , I only gave you an answer on the basis of that hadith and DID NOT LOOK AT THE OTHER HADITHS ( which are 3424 T0 3430) …you mean since I did not look at the other hadiths on this subject I am guilty?? or is it you who have been trying to deceive others by NOT mentioning all of them in order to trick people into making mistakes concerning them?

  • hello hello: 3) how she was to obtain some milk from her person

Now it is little more than just inform, she was suppose to obtain milk from her person. *

Ibrahim says; so you would like to keep twisting until you win, right ?? I gave you both how I understood it on the basis of that hadith (3424 only without any knowledge about 3425 to 3430 which also had information relating to this matter) as well as the commentary on MY VERY FIRST REPLY TO YOU, tell me why you are trying to make a mockery of yourself by twisting them to suit your purpose??

  • hello hello: 4) it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa.

means It was made Halal for Abu hudaifa. *

Ibrahim says; sheez!!! what was made halal for Abu hudhaifa??

  • hello hello: 5) This does not mean that we should do this If we want to make any grown up man a foster child.

Means we should not do this. It was a BAD act may be? *

Ibrahim says; it means it was ONLY for that particular case which was NOT ABOUT FOSTERING MAN, BUT ABOUT REMOVING THE DISGUST THAT ABU HUDHAIFA WAS HAVING TOWARDS SALIM and such cases would not be repeated exactly as they are written....do you think you will have some capacity to understand this by USING your brains??

  • hello hello: 6) If you are facing this situation or know someone who does. by all means go ahead and suckle that man without breaking the Islamic rules

What??? You just said we should not do this, now "doing this" won’t break Islamic rules. *

Ibrahim says’ You are showing your true colors now, aren’t you? and it smells bad…since I have made it clear to you that you can do this “only” IF you have that identical problem, which that hadith relates to WITHOUT BREAKING ISLAMIC RULES ( since you insisted that it was approved for all) and now you turn around an make a fool of yourself by twisting them?

MY EARLIER REPLY BEFORE YOUR SPLICE JOB ON IT was written in this form:-

  • Ibrahim says: Oh ! are you also having a slave child that grew up in your family who was accepted by you ( when he was a child) and after having matured was disliked (out of jealousy) in your wife presence??

(assuming your wife too had got around him well when he was a child and would not be able to dislike him just because he had grown up to be a man)

If you are facing this situation or know someone who does. by all means go ahead and suckle that man without breaking the Islamic rules that forbids a woman to expose herself.(other than to her husband) *

I GUESS YOU NEEDED TO FOOL OTHERS BUT ENDED UP MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF!!

  • hello hello: Quote******do me a favor just use my name as is, without adding to it. My name is Ibrahim Not Ibrahim bahai.

I was only trying to give you some respect, But I guess you are not used to it or do not deserve it may be…*

Ibrahim say: Oh really! you should learn to respect the TRUTH more by behaving yourself , not making a mockery of yourself by writing things which you do not understand.

  • hello hello: Quote****Firstly where does it (the hadith or my explanation) tell you that it was a joke??

I am not an English scholor but I think Jovial means “with humor”. You said “the hadith is right and had been given in a jovial manner”

Ibrahim says; Hey ! here you go again, JOKE and Jovial manner are two different things ( read again above)…learn what you don’t know DON’T make a fool of yourself because you have been proved in error .

  • hello hello: Quote*****Second Whatever revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) by Allah (swt) becomes revelation and becomes part of the Qur’an *

Not true!!! There are many Hadees e Qudsi that are not part of the quran but were revealed by Allah. *

Ibrahim says; Hence according to you hadith Qudsi are the words of Allah (swt) (revelations) to mankind which failed to be part of the Qur’an ??

it becomes obvious that you are acting as a Shia trying to discount the hadiths and your ONLY intention for starting this thread was to malign the hadiths.

** But in truth you can be a non believer trying to imitate a shia, so that you can cause mischief on this forum. I guess the moderators need to check your IP to ensure that you are not trying to deceive the participants of this forum. **

  • hello hello: Quote****……NOTE NO1905 (printed at the bottom of that page) reads: “What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him

This is only the interpration of sahih muslim . *

Ibrahim says’ Oh , so you know for a fact that this was added by sahih Muslim? Tell us by whose authority you have come to conclude as such?

Now it become obvious that, earlier you denied any knowledge of this commentary and went on to claim ** NO SUCH THING WAS QUOTED IN THAT PAGE!! ** now you claim it is there, why the need to hide it or LIE, earlier??

  • hello hello: You said” The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning”. Why interpret it any different way????? *

Ibrahim says; can you tell me where I wrote this???

  • hello hello: Quote****….you are NOT trying to understand what the hadiths conveys but trying to insinuate that the hadith is an error or the Prophet (pbuh) was unwise in saying such things.

(NB), again you are making it up, the whole argument is that My Rasool pbuh did not say anything like that, This is a false hadees in an authentic book of yours. *

Ibrahim says; hmm..this hadith becomes false because YOU LACK THE SENSES TO UNDERSTAND ITS MEANINGS or it becomes false because you do not like it as such??

TELL US !! SINCE IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE LYING AND HAVE THE NERVE TO TELL US IT WAS NOT conveyed as such by the Prophet (pbuh) by your own assertion without any proof that can be verified as such .

Devoted to truth
Ibrahim

** The tricks of the liars tie them into knots. **