is the US the most advanced nation?

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1

asalaamaleikum

admins, ii may have put this posting in the wrong forum, if this is the case so apologise n move it to where it should be :slight_smile:

hmmmm…we all hear about the United States. Abt how developed it is, how its alwaz in the forefront of any technological advances made, how its the one nation that can bring countries together (so it likes to think)etc etc.

Personally tho I think the US should look closer to home before it starts to judge other nations or puts forward the theory that “we, the USA haveta b involved in trying to resolve any conflict”…i mean we always hear abt the system of capital punishment that exists in Islamic states or other countries but what abt in the USA?

This so called modern country still has the death penalty and sees nothing wrong with having someone executed by methods such as electrocution and the gas chamber …something which we here in Britain banned in the 1960s.

Looking back on it the number of mistrials there have been can only give cause to the issue that it was the right decision as u can release somene from prision if it turns out someone was wrongly imprisioned but can you bring them back to life? I think not. Sure ppl will argue ok sure, a couple of innocent ppl may have been wrongly executed in the states but what abt the 100s who were guilty of their crimes at least they received their comeuppance. You may well have this opinion when its someone 1000s of miles away from where u r, but what if it was someone you knew, would u still think the same? i somehow doubt it as then this one person is not just a statistic its someone you know…

This is also a country where people are allowed to legally own firearms, but a country where when there is a catasrophe such as the shootings at schools theres a public outcry. Is there anything done abt the firearms issue? no. A little while later everyone forgets n life goes back to normal for the majority of the population until the next such incident. I realise the american constitution states that you can carry firearms but the time when it was created is slightly different to the situation now. America is now meant to be a very modern county, did you know that(!)

Its meant to care abt its folk but then the health care system relies on you having medical insurance, if you don’t u can’t get the best treatment avialible for you. Which i guess taken to its logical conclusion means those who are mainly in need miss out and don’t have basic healthcare facilities availible to them becuase they don’t have enuff money. Sounds really fair doesn’t it?

So is america that modern? Is it really the most advanced country in the world? hmmm…i wonder

also america drive on the wrong side of the room, but i guess that can be overlooked :slight_smile:

allah hafiz

ukwali
" Some people just cant find true friendship and what they think is true is just an illusion" —Confusious

visit my page http://ukwali.paklinks.com

2

Right now, technologically, militarily, economically and as a power in international politics, US is numero uno. There is no doubt.

3

yeah n those issues i agree no one can argue the US is the most advanced nation but what abt the other stuff? the things whihc affect the normal person in the street?

ukwali
" Some people just cant find true friendship and what they think is true is just an illusion" —Confusious

visit my page http://ukwali.paklinks.com

4

I go with ZZ

dil..dilseee

5

Salam ppl

It may sound like an old cliché, but money makes the world go round.
"paisa paing aur tamasha deikh"
USA have got money, they control the big loans granted to poor countries like ours, and that way manage to control the politics far away. Just look at the ongoing kashmir thing. Surely this is not the only explanation to the kashmir thing, but money can make you do whatever you want.

So the reason for being so far ahead is also because they can slow us down.

Take care
Allah Hafiz

6

Dear Ukwali,

You have raised some interesting points, and each one of your points deserves a separate and lengthy debate. Gun control, Healthcare, welfare policies, etc, are issues that are at the forefront of American public policy debates and dominate media. Your points are very valid that USA should look at home before acting like a Global Policeman and telling other countries what to do, and how to make their internal public policies.

The other side of the coin will be if USA didn't get involved in global affairs, who will? It may sound corny, but Americans are very "concerned" people. You living in England wouldn't know it, but philanthropic contribution of the Americans to the rest of the world exceeds by 25 folds to what the US govt and the other countries (G7) combined hand out. The operating budget of the Rockefeller foundation is twice as much as the GDP of Pakistan, Ford foundation, Carnegie, Nelson, Soros, Kennedy's, Rosenthal, Friedlander, American Jewish Fund, …… the list will be longer than the Royal Palaces in England, and will put everyone to shame, including the American Government. It is not always the US government that tries to influence public policy abroad, but these charities also. Can you blame them?

It is also true that some of the Laws in this country are very outdated, but there is always a debate in the public arena and laws are often modified. That is the beauty of this nation, that voters can modify laws (obviously through an electoral process) any time they like. Crime and shooting at places have other reasons in addition to liberal gun control laws. Those reasons are often overlooked. We can debate about those reasons if you like.

Healthcare does require an overall. If you are familiar with the Social Security act of 1939, you will see the advances in Healthcare that have been achieved since the US involvement in WW2, but there still remains a lot to be desired. Poor people do get treated, and at times get better treatment (Medicare A and B plans) than people with insurance and those who have HMOs (health management orgs. similar to insurance companies). I would say that English healthcare is also very good, but US is equally good, and offers more choices. I agree that it requires to be brought into line with time.

I don't have a slightest doubt in my mind that USA is the most advanced nation in this world, and offers leadership and sets examples for others to follow. Sadly the world only looks at what is wrong with this nation (CIA, big business, arrogance of some Americans, etc.) but pays little attention to what is good with it. The single most important factor in its greatness lies in the fundamental basis of its existence: liberty and justice for all.

7

NYA, please do not tell us that US is the most advance nation in humanitarian concerns. The death rate of Iraqi children has increased from 7000 in 89 to 57000 now. Radioactive shells bursting everywhere has deformed new generations theres. After destroying the entire infrastructure there which would make distribution of food impossible, US continues to discontinue any tricle of aid that come in that unfortunate nation syaing that aid is not being distributed.

Americans have a bloody record. Have installed dictatorships in Africa and Latin America who keep taking loans for their personal reasons from world agencies only so that poor nations pay in the end. But hypocrisy is such that Milosevic who has been charged of 381 documented murders gets bombed and Kissinger who definitely killed more people got Nobel peace prize.

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Dear ZZ,

USA never used radio active warfare in Iraq. More Iraqis are killed by Saddam than by anyone else. Did you know that he built a new city called "Saddamia" and spent billions of dollars on that. He could have spent some of that on his people. You should tell Saddam how to protect his nationals. Going and invading neighbors don't solve problems. In terms of setting up dictatorships in Africa and Latin America, I agree that the US doesn't have a squeaky clean record. But who does? Tell me a country that has made so much progress and contributed more than its fair share to the world. I guess USA's involvement in the 2 world wars is just a little blimp in the sky (as far as the conspiracy theorists are concerned). Tell me a place that has done more for its citizens as well as for the world. I will wait to hear from you. What makes you think that Kissinger was responsible for killing people? Where was that? Vietnam or Middle East?? If US charities are not instrumental in eradicating poverty in some corners of the world, there will be more starvation than one can imagine. I don't hear about European or Asian Charities. Where are those Hong Kong Billionaires? I was reading that Brunei's Royal family has solid gold faucets in their palaces. Wao. I was impressed.

Please tell us what place is the most advanced nation in your opinion. Don't just bash USA, tell us who you are comparing it with.

9

They use radioactive material in shells, since it is metal and a strong metal. They admit it, but claim that raidioactive content is too little.

Formation of Israel is one story. It would not have been possible without US support. Why should middle east pay for the genocide of Jews by Europeans. Another supported nation is Turkey, Saddam was supported before falling from grace, and Shah of Iran also got US support, the Brunei sultans u mention are there on basis of US military. The way Pakistan (Zia was head that time) was supported and thrown away is not distant past. I am getting worried now that US is supporting India now. All current evidence says that US support comes with a heavy price and ignorant Indians are rejoicing.

Of course, everyone follows policies with their self interest in mind. But current powers of US make every disobedient state pay heavily in each term. Destruction of Vietnam was nothing. What is left in Serbia or even Kosovo now? The distruction is in tune of 50 billion to 150 billion dollors now. Even lower figure is out of reach of Serbia which is already flooded with Bosnian Serb refugees and now Kosovan serb refugees. IS US going to pay for infrastructure, clean water, electricity, housing, civil services at least in Kosovo, no way.

10

Amazingly this is one of those rare occasions where I am going to agree with the ZZ. Yes the Us is economically and dynamically the best country in the world...if you live in the US. For all other countries it is a pain in the a$$. For every dollar given in charity to the third world five dollars is taken back in debt repayment. US is a competitive animal which looks after it's own interests first and last. Right down to nuking cities full of slanty-eyed foreigners if it wins the argument. And to be fair, it did.

11

It depends what they are advancing in. If u wanna compare corruption & illitracy, then Pak is far ahead & behind respectively.

Fata Morgana

12

in regards to Pakistan, can u really make a comparation pakistan is classified as a third world country so illetracy n corruption…well is that really a surprise?

ukwali
" Some people just cant find true friendship and what they think is true is just an illusion" —Confusious

visit my page http://ukwali.paklinks.com

13

I think that

"The people who think about others or about un-necessary things & matters are actually making their ownselves suffer".

So the best thing is let the world go as it is unless u are a lawyer or a politician, because its in their blood to interfere/disturb peoples' life.

[This message has been edited by Najim (edited July 12, 1999).]

14

Dear ZZ, and Dear Mr. Xtreme,

All I can say is that USA doesn’t sit around planning all this. If it weren’t for USA, Europeans will be *&^%$# in their pants as Yugoslavia problem was sure to spill over its borders. I am amazed how you are praising Melosovic, that tells the standards you are judging the USA by. Wao. How entertaining! Let me open your eyes by telling you today’s news: Sergay Kroschov (Yes, son of famous Nikita who wanted to nuke the USA 40 years ago!! The same Nikita) became US citizen today. Can you imagine another country in the world taking in the son of its enemy (let alone letting one in). I am sure Saudi Arabia will be delighted to grant son of Saddam citizenship. I am sure India wont think twice before honoring Ayub Khan’s son as an honorary citizen. I am sure Pakistan will be very happy honoring one of Gandhis (of Indira). Just look at your countries and problems before seeing USA through your microscopes. It is just fashionable to talk against USA when you have nothing to show for yourself about your own countries. When things go assbackward in other countries, USA is a very easy target.

And yes, USA (marshal Plan) built western Europe, and USA will built the Balkans as well, because others don’t have the “resources” nor the will to do that.

Lets see how much India and Pakistan help its poorer neighbors.

Dear UKwali.. dont let anyone fool you. USA is the most advanced nation in the world... by any standards!

[This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited July 12, 1999).]

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Dear contributers

I've been following this topic and judgeing from peoples point of views it seems like USA is THE only country in the whole wide world which is perfect in all ways. But let me tell you something folks. Have you ever heard about Denmark ? Now this ain't a joke, but let me tell you.

In this small country in the northern scandinavian:
-no person begs on the streets
-almost no unemployment
-a social security which never lets you feel like shit
-nobody go to bed hungry
-the lowest crime rate you've ever heard about
- free health care services
- free education
- stable democracy
-recognized scientists

Being member of the European Union and NATO means that the countrys own military budget is very low, and I cannot see why it has to be otherwise.
I really cannot see the reason for choosing USA as the perfect state. Try to go through the above mentioned list. But don't tell me that the problems are larger in larger states, that's no excuse!
Try to think about why USA is a superpower and why it always has to play the policeman of the entire world ?
The answer is very simple: In the flashpoints around the world, USA will only play its role where it can gain influence and has an interrest, which for all cases is money.

Don't get me wrong on this, but I just don't agree.

Allah Hafiz

16

NYAhmadi

i think u have been in the US too long. IF the USA is so great why has it in conflicts nromally come in at the last minute, normally come in only when its gonna gain somethign out of the situation. The problem with the USA is that it doesnt’ give a stuff abt situations where it stnads to make no financial gain or where its not likely to gain popularity!

They really do not care otherwise…wot happened in Kuwait??? what happened in the Suez crisis? You knwo anything abt that? The US wouldnt’ get involved becoz they had NOTHING to gain. But at the same time sees fit to get involved in other conflicts n expect other International powers to turn round after and say “of course we support u”…

and your view abt Khrushchevs son being granted citizenship when pak or Saudi may not do the same. Can u really make a comparison there??? unless Im very much mistaken the Cold War is on the whole finitoed! Khruschev or Russia no longer hold any threat to the US but can the same be said for the examples u gave?? I think not! Ok lets look at it this way, would the US welcome a son or brother of Fidel Castro to the US with open arms??? I somehwo doubt it!

the way I see it the US maybe the most technological advanced state in the would but its also the most advanced when it comes to having double standards.

America wants the best of both worlds n I can see the day when this backfires on them…coz no one can have their cake n eat it altho the US seems to think they are immune to this

n thats all i haveat say on the subject

allah hafiz all

ukwali
" Some people just cant find true friendship and what they think is true is just an illusion" —Confusious

visit my page http://ukwali.paklinks.com

17

Dear Amer Sethi..

Denmark is nice, but lets not compare a small village in the middle of nowhere with the greatest modern civilization on this planet. What percentage of Dens are foreign-born immigrants? Scandinavians generally tend to be fairly insular to anything foreign. I think there are a lot of nice things about Scandinavian countries, but it is not a match to the super power. The only reason the social welfareism continues to work in northern Europe is because 3/4th of your earnings are paid back in taxes to sustain such a system. It is crumbling in Germany, and the rest of northern Europe is next.

I often travel to Jutland (Aalborg) for work, and let me say that I do find Denmark to be progressive and modern country and quite a nice place to live, but in all honesty, it just does not match overall with the greatness of the good old USA. Honest!

Dear Ukwali,

You seem to have all the answers they why ask question? My purpose for giving the example of Sergai was not to show that a communists son can be welcomed in the USA, but to make a point that "anyone" regardless of where and what one is from can become "American", can a Pakistani born, or even a kid born to Pakistani or Indian parents in England be called "English". One may become a UK citizen, but one will never be considered an "English". If Fidel Castro's brother (or one of his illegitimate kids) want US citizenship, no one will turn them away, so long as they follow the legal procedures. USA even allowed known terrorists in. UK doesn't even give the guy who owns Harrods a citizenship. And by the way, what other country are you comparing USA with? Let's know. I agree that there are some problems with this country, but overall, it is far ahead of others, in any area, and by any stretch of imagination. People who hold grudge against it are just jealous, and have nothing to show about their own countries. I am sure you have heard today's news, about a de-revolution in Iran. Go ahead blame that on the USA. Make my day!

18

Utha khumaar jahaaN say ussay bhula kar tum
parrhay jatay ho fasanay na-ay jahaano kay

Kabhee jo murr kay kabhee dekhnay ka mauqa ho
to ek nazar kabhee dekho inhee jharokoN say

wohee nigahain ab bhee intizaar kartee haiN
waheeN kharray haiN muntazir teray jahaaN per thay

19

Dear NYA

You seem to forget the beauty of my message. How can it be that a village in your eyes manage to do better than a superpower ?

Now, should we stop paying taxes because we get better social and health system ???
This is NOT an argument! Offcourse this is the reason why we have better living standards here in Denmark, but why doesn't USA complie to such a system?? Pay to the system and you'll get something in return!! Who said that the welfare system in europe is crumbling ? You ? Let's talk fact and not judgement by heart.

Having lived here almost all my life, I should know better if danish ppl are insular or not.
Now talking about foreign immigrants, I would say that the only original inhabitants of USA were the native indians, so how do you want to compare the immigrant issue when all USA from Mr. president to the black street worker is foreign immigrant? Compared to our size we take a large amount of foregin immigrants, but importantly we also care for them.

I would say you should try not to be so one eyed and believe in only one mighty nation, but also consider its bad sides. I would be the last one to be jelous on someone living in USA.

Take the good with the bad!
Next time you come to Denmark, please visit me, I'ld love to discuss this issue with you in another setting.

Allah Hafiz.

20

Dear Amer Sethi,

You are taking it a bit too personal. I didn't mean to say that Denmark was not a fine place. In fact it boosts some of the most modern elements of life. It has excellent record on environmental causes, in fact Greenpeace was started by a Dan. I was just comparing Denmark with the USA on an overall basis. Any place is like a village compared to the USA. When I travel to central Europe, every two hours I am in a new country, you will be stuck in New York City traffic for hours. That's what I meant. It was only a geographical size comparison and not a comparison of "desirable attributes". I personally would love to live in a small quiet place. I love Aalborg and have made many friends there over the years. I also take boat to Guttenborg from there and enjoy that part of Sweden. I have great admiration for Scandinavians and I think they are very hardworking and sincere people (they do lack sense of humor in my opinion). Reading your posts tells me that "you need to loosen up a little".

My remark about people being jealous about the USA wasn't "people" in singular sense, but as collectively in geopolitical sense. I meant the media, the governments. There is a tendency in developing countries to look for scapegoats for their own problems, and USA makes an easy target. In terms of people, I am jealous of people who live in my small village in Pakistan. I wish I lived there.

So friend, USA is good. There is no match. In terms of Indian indigenous inhabitants, they have their own reservations and they follow their own laws. 400 years ago, there were more Hindus living in Lahore also. Not everyone who lives in today's age is indigenous to the area they live in. One more thing for your benefit. There are all colors of street workers in the USA, not just "Black". That colloquialism is very deep in Europe. A very good friend of mine's family moved from Liverpool to a village in southern England generations ago. They are still considered "outsiders" in that village. I am sure you are familiar with the concept of "Auslander". There is no such thing in the USA.

One more thing. We pay a lot in taxes here as well, but the difference is the USA has market capitalism, where Scandinavia has socialistic principals. Both systems are fine. The only reason I said that welfare states are collapsing is the current situation in Germany. They have started to realize that to be competitive they must let the market forces dictate the economic wellbeing. 10 weeks paid holidays is bit too much. Wont you agree? Current unemployment in Germany is result of "cradle to grave policies".