Is She MUSLIMAH or NOT ???

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

As salaamu alaykum

I went to wedding party today, i walked into room and sister’s were sitting waiting to see bride to be and anyhow as you do, you go around room shake hands and give salaam to everyone. Anyhow i missed out two girls who i werent sure were muslimahs ( no Hijaab, no Abayaa, lots of make up, stylish hair and tight clothing) so i said ‘hi’ instead!

Later when the party had begun, those two girls approached me and said that they were offended that i hadnt given Salaam to them.

I replied ‘’ I said ‘hi’ becsue i werent sure you were muslimah or not ‘’ … ( I actualy thought they were Hindu girls)

Was it my fault if i couldnt recognise that?

For me especially i cannot tell difference, i dont know who is Sikh, Hindu or Pakistani… :frowning: i mean i cannot be sure can i? There outward apearance doesnt say anything to me or there attitudes dont indicate that they are practising muslimah? :frowning:

Can anyone relate to this experience or give me your opinions Inshallah!

2

Goes to show that Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs are all desis and one and the same. Let’s break down these artificial barriers of religion.

3

Wa'alaykum assalaam warahmatullaah sister,

Your incident is not too uncommon. It often happens when we come across Muslims, we are not sure what religion they belong to, simply because of their outward actions/appearence.

It's an experience that I too have had. We have a daw'ah table on Saturdays on a busy high street here, that is essentially set up for non-Muslims, but we get as many Muslims coming to the table as we do non-Muslims. Sometimes we give salaam to a non-Muslim thinking that he is a Muslim, and at other times we say 'hi' to a Muslim assuming that he is a non-Muslim. As you described, it is often not easy to tell if someone is a Muslim or not, particularly if there are no apparant signs to indicate either way. And as you know sister, this is why as Muslims we should be distinguishable from the non-Muslims - not to seperate ourselves from society in a non-Muslim land, but rather so that we are noted as being Muslims, and are identified by the Religion that we belong to.

Returning to the issue, before one acts upon his or her instincts, there are one or two things that we need to take into consideration. Firstly, the scholars have mentioned the fiqh ruling that: everyone is considered a Muslim unless proven otherwise. The reason being that the fitra (natural inclination) of man (or woman of course) is towards Tawheed (the Oneness of Allaah).

However, before we apply this concept we need to assess two things: whether it is clearly apparent that the person is not a Muslim; and the environment that you are in. It is this second point that is related to your incident. As you were at a Muslim wedding, perhaps you ought to have assumed that 'all' the guests were Muslim. In this case it would have been more appropriate to give everybody salaams, whether wearing hijaab/abaaya or not. Had you been in a gathering were clearly the majority of people were not Muslim then 'hi' would have been more appropriate.

... wallaahu 'aalim.

I'm sure you apologised to the sisters. Perhaps you should have also taken the opportunity to kindly explain to them the reason why you thought they were not Muslim and the beauty of the Muslim woman's hijaab. If you did it in a friendly and gentle way, perhaps it may have even softened their hearts towards you and made them more comfortable and open about investigating the benefits of the hijaab insha'Allaah.

But as i said sister, don't worry. Unfortunately most of us often cannot tell the difference between Muslims and non-Muslims. It's a shame, but regrettably, it's also a reality.

... may Allaah - subhaana wa ta'aala - guide us all.

WasSalaam

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Goes to show that Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs are all desis and one and the same. Let’s break down these artificial barriers of religion.
[/QUOTE]

Why is it that the Messenger of Allaah - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - opposed the mushrikeen of Makkah?

To you they may seem one of the same, but to Allaah, their beliefs are not "one and the same". And Allaah knows us better than we know our ownselves.

&peace

5

If you thought they were Hindu girls, why didn't you say "Namaste"? "Hi" can be just as offensive to hindu girls who don't go around parading in saris or ghagra cholis with anklets. And "Hi" is just as unislamic as "Namaste" anyway.

DS, does dress make a muslim or do deeds? In Islam, you are supposed to greet everyone if you are not sure of their beliefs, and even if you are sure, a salutation of "Peace" is not something derogatory to any religion. Now that you have offended muslim non-hijaban "sisters", how good of a muslim do you yourself feel?

Assumptions slaughter human decency.

6

Also, if people want to be Islamically-perfect, first of all they should not be walking into rooms unannounced, secondly it is indecent in Islam for even a woman to be looking at another women's state of dress or undress or commenting on her beauty, because they will be taken in by the female awra, and shaking hands is a no-no, because you will be touching someone's body, unless of course you are all wearing gloves. Where do you draw the line, sister?

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hasnain: *
Wa'alaykum assalaam warahmatullaah sister,

And as you know sister, this is why as Muslims we should be distinguishable from the non-Muslims - not to seperate ourselves from society in a non-Muslim land, but rather so that we are noted as being Muslims, and are identified by the Religion that we belong to.
[/QUOTE]

Yes exactly, i mean at college i get asked your wearing Hijaab and your muslim then what's up with her, afterall she's muslim too right?

[QUOTE]
It is this second point that is related to your incident. As you were at a Muslim wedding, perhaps you ought to have assumed that 'all' the guests were Muslim.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortuantely i couldnt make that assumption, due to fact that there was mix of girls around, distinctly i could see one chinese girl and english girl. The sisters that i saw and recognised and gave proper Salaam and others i just welcomed and smiled .

[QUOTE]
I'm sure you apologised to the sisters. Perhaps you should have also taken the opportunity to kindly explain to them the reason why you thought they were not Muslim and the beauty of the Muslim woman's hijaab. If you did it in a friendly and gentle way, perhaps it may have even softened their hearts towards you and made them more comfortable and open about investigating the benefits of the hijaab insha'Allaah.
[/QUOTE]

Yes Alhamdulillah i apologised greatly for my mistake and did explain in nice way why i had greeted them differently, the girls even said themselves that they had realised why i made that assumption, so im glad not to much dmage or harm was done by simple misunderstanding.

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hasnain: *

Why is it that the Messenger of Allaah - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - opposed the mushrikeen of Makkah?

To you they may seem one of the same, but to Allaah, their beliefs are not "one and the same". And Allaah knows us better than we know our ownselves.

&peace
[/QUOTE]
Because they were cruel people, not becuase of what dress they were wearing. All good people regardless of religon should come together. Allah like good people and reject the cruel people, no matter what religion they claim to be from.

9

I've been in that situation a few times as well, however, I always give salam to everyone whether or not they are muslim, because it is hard to tell at times.

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ana: *
If you thought they were Hindu girls, why didn't you say "Namaste"? And "Hi" is just as unislamic as "Namaste" anyway.
[/QUOTE]

** Had i known the word 'Namaste' was such greeting used to Hindu girls. One of girl's greeted me with saying Hiya my name is... so when i saw she doest look like muslimah to me, so i automatically replied 'Hello' back to her. May Allah forgive if there is mistake in that**

[QUOTE]
DS, does dress make a muslim or do deeds?
[/QUOTE]

*Consider the fact, i dont know who these girls are at all, do not know where they are from, ntohig about them... Allah only knows whether there deeds are good or bad , how could i possibly know about tehre deeds when i had never met them before in my life.
One girl had top on which was bearly covering her bust... dress is essential especially fr muslimah, she should cover her awrah even amongst women. *

[QUOTE]
In Islam, you are supposed to greet everyone if you are not sure of their beliefs, and even if you are sure, a salutation of "Peace" is not something derogatory to any religion. Now that you have offended muslim non-hijaban "sisters", how good of a muslim do you yourself feel?
[/QUOTE]

** I did greet tehm , i welcomed them and smiled... what nicer greeting would you want. If i have done anything wrong Inshallah Allah is most-merciful....
i carefully and nicely explained to them my thought and they gave me there ideas in return... they told me difficulties about wearing Hijaab, what there life is like, people they live amongst. Alhamdulillah air was cleared and we understood eachother.**

11

I would like you to refer to this article Inshallah...

If it is not known whether a person is a Muslim or a kaafir, can we say salaam to him?

If I meet a person and I do not know whether he is a kaafir or a Muslim, should I say salaam to him or return his greeting or not?

Praise be to Allaah.

It was reported in the hadeeth that you should say salaam to those you know and those you do not (narrated by al-Bukhaari, 12; al-Fath 1/55) but this applies only to Muslims, or those who appear to be Muslim. It was also reported that it is forbidden to say salaam to Jews and Christians, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not initiate the greeting of salaam to a Jew or Christian, and if you meet them in the street, push them to the narrowest part of the road.” (Narrated by Muslim, 2167). He also said: “If the People of the Book greet you with salaam, say ‘wa ‘alaykum’ (and also upon you).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6258).

But at that time the People of the Book were distinct from the Muslims in their dress and appearance, and they were not allowed to resemble Muslims. But in these times, unfortunately, many Muslims look like them, and we can no longer tell the difference between a Muslim and a Christian. Everyone - except for those whom Allaah wills – looks the same in dress, in being clean-shaven, in wearing nothing on their heads, or wearing western-style caps, so the matter is more confusing. If someone who looks like the mushrikeen says salaam to you, say “Wa ‘alaykum,” and do not initiate the greeting, because of the uncertainty about him. If he objects and tells you off, then apologize to him. You had reason to act as you did, because you did know whether he was a Muslim or a Christian, because he is not dressing as a Muslim and prefers the dress of the Christians and others. Tell him that “whoever imitates a people is one of them” (Saheeh, narrated by Imaam Ahmad, 2/50-92), and advise him to distinguish himself from the kuffaar and to dress as the Muslims dress, like his father, grandfathers and the scholars of the Muslims. If he persists in what he is doing, this means that he likes the characteristics of the Christians and is imitating them, and that he despises the Muslims and is going against them, even though he does not gain anything from that besides blind imitation. This indicates that he admires those kuffaar and thinks that their worldly achievements and inventions, etc., stem from their false religion. This is going too far, for the Muslims are wiser and more able to invent and produce, so he should not be deceived by the Mushrikeen.

Al-Lu’lu’ al-Makeen fi Fataawaa al-Shaykh ibn Jibreen, p. 49

12

what's the big deal? fugidabodit.

13

[quote]
It was reported in the hadeeth that you should say salaam to those you know and those you do not (narrated by al-Bukhaari, 12; al-Fath 1/55) but this applies only to Muslims, or those who appear to be Muslim. It was also reported that it is forbidden to say salaam to Jews and Christians, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not initiate the greeting of salaam to a Jew or Christian, and if you meet them in the street, push them to the narrowest part of the road.” (Narrated by Muslim, 2167). He also said: “If the People of the Book greet you with salaam, say ‘wa ‘alaykum’ (and also upon you).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6258).
[/quote]

I refuse to believe the Prophet Muhammed SAW, a model of virtue and humanity, would say to push other humans into the road, no matter who they are. If he himself, being the BESTEST human being that ever lived on the face of the earth, would have never done that, it goes to say that the whole hadith is fabricated. Unless you can show me any hadith in which the Prophet SAW himself says that he used to practice this. Even then, I don't know if I will accept its authenticity.

Common sense, which Allah SWT has usually blessed mankind with, does not tell us to push people off roads.

If one does not wish to greet someone, that is acceptable to one's senses, but not this pushing business.

14

Re: Is She MUSLIMAH or NOT ???

You give Salam to everyone in the room all at once. Then go around asking everyone's names.
:)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dai_sista: *
As salaamu alaykum

I went to wedding party today, i walked into room and sister's were sitting waiting to see bride to be and anyhow as you do, you go around room shake hands and give salaam to everyone. Anyhow i missed out two girls who i werent sure were muslimahs ( no Hijaab, no Abayaa, lots of make up, stylish hair and tight clothing) so i said 'hi' instead!

Later when the party had begun, those two girls approached me and said that they were offended that i hadnt given Salaam to them.

I replied '' I said 'hi' becsue i werent sure you were muslimah or not '' .... ( I actualy thought they were Hindu girls)

Was it my fault if i couldnt recognise that?

For me especially i cannot tell difference, i dont know who is Sikh, Hindu or Pakistani... :( i mean i cannot be sure can i? There outward apearance doesnt say anything to me or there attitudes dont indicate that they are practising muslimah? :(

Can anyone relate to this experience or give me your opinions Inshallah!
[/QUOTE]

15

<~~ Old thought.

Wow. Looking at these women who clothes like that. Not Stylish, and their heads covered.

Are they really people?

God answered me. Yes. Absolutely.

Are they holy?

God answered me. Yes. All my children are holy to me.

I asked.

God? Is it your wish that women dress that way?

God answered me. No. I don't offer blessing upon someone based on how they believe they should dress.., or how they don't believe. I give my blessings upon those that follow my rules. Dress as you will. It doesn't matter in my eyes. What matters to me is my flock, my earth, and every living thing upon it.

In my dream...this is what God said.

16

How sure are you about this?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
<~~ Old thought.

Wow. Looking at these women who clothes like that. Not Stylish, and their heads covered.

Are they really people?

God answered me. Yes. Absolutely.

Are they holy?

God answered me. Yes. All my children are holy to me.

I asked.

God? Is it your wish that women dress that way?

God answered me. No. I don't offer blessing upon someone based on what they believe..., or don't believe. I give my blessings upon those that follow my rules. Dress as you will. It doesn't matter in my eyes. What matters to me is my flock, my earth, and every living thing upon it.

In my dream...this is what God said.
[/QUOTE]

17

Completely sure. No question. Absolutely.

18

a mother does love all her children....
but those of her children who disobey her, do need a punishment, even though they r loved....
and those who obey her, love her, respect her, they do get some extra love from her....
and it is so just, isnt it????

and sorry to disappoint u AvgAmericanGirl, but ur dreams dont constitute religion laws....

19

I think the only issue is that it seems a muslim is not supposed to say "Assalam O Alaikum" to a chritian or a jew (or a hindu?).

Based on the article posted by Dai_sista, the issue seems clear (that we should not say "Assalam o Alaikum" to them).. my only question is, is that a unanimous consensus about this ruling?

We know, sometimes, scholars have different sources to base their fatwas, and I will like to know if this has a consensus or a difference of opinion on this one too.

Thanks and W'salam.

20

Your right.

My dreams don't constitute any religious law whatsover.

Never could. Never would.

But they do guide my unconsciense mind to think about God, and whether I am am obedient to God's commands, and also make me try to behave in a way that would be most pleasing to God. Try.

And I don't think...whether my head is covered in a burqua ... is one of God's most pressing worries. Don't know for sure, but don't imagine he spends much time contemplating on fashion.