Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong for the country?
Or
Do we still need changes to the basic structure of the system where “hari’s” and bonded labor (literal and mentality) needs to be freed for exercising their basic rights (including voting)?
Quote" The fate of the Nawaz-led government should be known fairly soon. It is not likely to go easily. The intentions of the military are critical. Should widespread agitation occur, the army could be expected to intervene to overcome an impasse, but it might also use the occasion to fashion an outcome that formalizes its power. The United States will have a very limited ability to influence the course of events, but would prefer stability and, if a major change occurs, will encourage a smooth transition. Washington will no doubt express its preference for retaining an elected civilian government but, if necessary, as in the past, find reason to make its peace with military rule." Unquote
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Public seemingly wants to choose buildings and structures as it makes the city look good, beautiful pictures. Only those who are affected from lack of other infra-structure i.e. medical (hospital)/education seem to be worried but they get carried away by the metros too.
Now you are challenging the long-standing big political parties who thrive on block-voting, I doubt this issue is going away anytime soon. The more waderas/chaudharies stay in power, the longer the suffering of these hari’s continues, keeps away the power of those individuals.
Nothing is going to happen as ‘fallout’ from Panama papers. Army sort of realizes the corruption within its own institutions as recently they took action against some big guns, so army can’t play angel and push politicians to cleanse themselves. When a totally unrelated person from ANP can curse the city/country/population to save Nawaz Sharif from resignation then what exactly do you expect? I expect nothing, topi-drama of pulling each other’s lungi will continue, people will clap for few hours then forget and move on. At time of next election people will again be tuned to promises of these same sh!tty politicians cursing each other and vote for one of them.
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
What is the right choice here???
Every other person poses as Einstein, blaming everything to Pakistani people for not electing top quality leader he assume is top quality!!! Hence call them names...
Just for the moment tell us here what is the right choice, instead of writing long essays...just name the right leader...
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Is creation of IJI (now PMLN) to weaken PPP was also a sin of Dictator or was it a noble act?
Yes, a sin. Also, war in 1965, war in 1971, Afghan 'jihad', Kargil, creation and support of Bhutto, JI, MQM, Zardari, Nawaz, Taliban.... and many more.
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Ppl r making the choice from Wat ever is available in front .. it is only matter of continuity of democracy and education in pakistan. That really need decades. Unfortunately wen ever army takes over it de rail the system to many decades in negative. We are still in negative side of the DemocraCy.
Still need decades to recover if allowed by establishment
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Nope.
The strength and evolution of democracies in the West is proportionate to the number of great thinkers, intellectuals, philosophers, poets, activists and statesmen they had produce over the years. Those people, their ideas, their intellectual contributions had shaped their system and societies. Take a trip down to European capitals, and there's a monument of a great thinker and intellectual after every couple of blocks.
Pakistan is a country with no sense of civilization, no sense of past, no sense of intellectual traditions, it is a deeply confused, deeply divided country with very fragile sense of identity. Pakistan as a country is a prisoner of its own history!
Other than the usual Army versus politicians debate (hallmark of Pakistani 'intellectualism'), do you really think a third voice exist in the country that helps us build our narratives? Who are your intellectuals? Where are they? What are their contributions and role in contemporary Pakistan?
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
So your argument is that Military keeps itself away from politics for how many years then our people will make right choices?
Every conversation in Pakistan turns into this civil-military binary debate. Every conversation, be it on corruption, rigging, poverty, mounting debt, failure of institutions turns into 'well yes, military is bad'. Such conversation really isolates the urgency to reform. It really eases off the pressure from the current rulers who at the end of the day are answerable for governance in the democracy, not the military!
Just because military had ruled in the past, it gives no one the excuse to paddle the rhetoric that lethargic stagnation in the name of democracy is a solution. The world, in particular Pakistan's neighbours had moved on so much that anyone who thinks Pakistan has the luxury of wasting yet another precious generation is living in fools land.
I mean yes it is a fact military is responsible for more than half of the mess in Pakistan, there must not be any more coup in Pakistan, there hasn't been coup in last 8 years, in 2018 a general won't be standing for elections. So now, can the debate please move forward?
How many decades to do some Pakistanis need before they can get 'closure' on military rules and they can finally start building narratives against bad governance and ways to improve the quality of democracy without hiding behind 'oh well military is worse' rhetoric?
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
I totally agree with your above post as well.
In another post it was ascertained that PPP (2008) and PMLN (2013) was brought into power by Military. So by that logic, these two parties will obviously work for their masters' benefits or else they know they will be replaced.
In essence; then supporters of PPP and PMLN condone Military's rule through their parties but they want to keep a veil to shout that they are democratic and abhor military's "rule" but only when done directly; if it is via PPP or PMLN then it's fine. Quite convoluted - No?
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Alhamdulillah it is accepted that half of the mess in pak is due to army consequently if they r trying to clean the mess is nit an ehsan to the ppl of pakistan.
I hope if we have 3 to 4 uninterrupted democratic tenure . Things will tune up well
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Alhamdulillah it is accepted that half of the mess in pak is due to army consequently if they r trying to clean the mess is nit an ehsan to the ppl of pakistan.
I hope if we have 3 to 4 uninterrupted democratic tenure . Things will tune up well
Exactly. If Army tries to dismantle their hand made Frankenstein terrorist monsters like MQM and Taliban then it is simply a case of they undoing their own crap instead of an ehsaan.
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Alhamdulillah it is accepted that half of the mess in pak is due to army consequently if they r trying to clean the mess is nit an ehsan to the ppl of pakistan.
I hope if we have 3 to 4 uninterrupted democratic tenure . Things will tune up well
So almost 2 tenures (8 years) are completed - just a rough estimate that if it would take 4 tenures (20 years) to clean up the Army's mess then Pakistan is around 40% better than what it was in 2008?
I think; Pakistan is a hotch potch country which can not be governed in a western style democracy and perhaps Pakistan needs Presidential form of Government; and we need a statesman who can think beyond Surrey Palaces and Mayfair Apartments. Until and unless this filth is not cleaned up, which is impossible in current electoral system, as I know the system inside out from ZC to Senator - the entire process is rotten and beneficiaries of this rotten state would be extremely stupid to make these systems stronger.
Have you heard of any ruler with absolute power changing the systems to bring him/herself under the systems - Examples of any muslim dominated country?
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Exactly. If Army tries to dismantle their hand made Frankenstein terrorist monsters like MQM and Taliban then it is simply a case of they undoing their own crap instead of an ehsaan.
waht is the guarantee that our army is not busy making more Frankenstein on the name of Kashmir jehad. !!!
This power hungry army never gonna give real power to civilians. INKI haramkhori ki dukan band ho jayee gi. Phir inki auladain kaise pakistan se bahr ja kar studies karain gi...
They cannot compete with civilians in private market unless not having a army tag with them. Most of private org.hire these captain / major / brig only coz of their links and get the wrok done speedy ..
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
So almost 2 tenures (8 years) are completed - just a rough estimate that if it would take 4 tenures (20 years) to clean up the Army's mess then Pakistan is around 40% better than what it was in 2008?
I think; Pakistan is a hotch potch country which can not be governed in a western style democracy and perhaps Pakistan needs Presidential form of Government; and we need a statesman who can think beyond Surrey Palaces and Mayfair Apartments. Until and unless this filth is not cleaned up, which is impossible in current electoral system, as I know the system inside out from ZC to Senator - the entire process is rotten and beneficiaries of this rotten state would be extremely stupid to make these systems stronger.
Have you heard of any ruler with absolute power changing the systems to bring him/herself under the systems - Examples of any muslim dominated country?
Wat ever form of govt is used at the end all power to be given to the system not to the individual. Power to indvidual can work only if we get some sincere person at the top. ( as u mentioned ) Lets hope we get that one sincere person at the top position in our life time. But I dont expect any more from some army general to do such act. If Ayub and musharaf cannot do it . No one else stronger than them is gonna come on army top position. Msotly we will have like of Yahya or kiyani...
On a side note : can any one confirm / Deny do we still have drinks served in Army mess or just rumors...
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong for the country?
With an overwhelming percentage that is illiterate, generally speaking, we are not ready for democracy.
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The fate of the Nawaz-led government should be known fairly soon. It is not likely to go easily.
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I dont know why media is turning this into a PMLN-govt issue, rather than what it actually is...a Nawaz and family issue.
If Nawaz is found guilty, why would, or should it affect the govt? Nawaz will lose his seat, and probably Capt. Safdar, but PMLN will still retain a majority, and can easily retain the govt with a replacement PM.
Re: Is Pakistan public enabled to distinguish and choose between right or wrong?
excuse me? what made you say that? I am really curious
and how come indians are ready for democracy? afterall it is going on just fine in india for 70 years.
We have (after embellishing numbers) around 40%-45% literacy in Pakistan (the lowest in South Asia). Add to that the fact that we have had several interruptions in democracy, our population has never really had a true taste of what it feels like to be in power. We choose candidates based on what our waderas, chaudhrys, maliks and sharifs tell us. The small segment that votes with its mind is quickly brushed aside as the segment that wants to 'derail democracy'.
India has a 75%+ literacy rate. They have had consistent democracy since inception so that helps. People havent seen any other form of govt, and arent interested in one either.