You have given sixty years to the rogue agencies...and in two and half months of struggling democracy you are already declaring the experiment as failed already...who says we had real democracy for last two months....real democracy is impossible without real judiciary....I don't think going to the era of rogue agencies is the solution to our problems...a fair chance and time should be given to democracy in our country before making such sweeping conclusions...
Dismantling the agencies and the military looked like a good idea in Iraq too.
What certainty do you have that the US is not using them to try and destabilize Pakistan.
Isn't that called falling in the trap? We have seen Taliban/Alqaida having no mercy for Pakistan forces/people, do we really care whether US is using Taliban/Alqaida for destabilising Pakistan?
By playing dual game we are not only killing ourselves but also helping the monster grow bigger.
I do believe that there are rogue elements in ISI/military (or even this may be unofficial official policy) supporting Taliban but depending on “Afghan govt agency” for such information to come out in the open is not credible enough in my opinion. From the article cited:
“He’s one of three former Taliban fighters introduced to The Canadian Press by an Afghan government agency that works at getting rebels to renounce the insurgency.”
You have to go through pain in the short term to heal a long term cancer.
Excuse me? When a country ends up slaugthering its own people you call that healing up cancer?? Seriously, do you have any idea of how many innocent people including women and children end up getting killed by the PAK army? Nor to say raped? The military operation will not solve a single thing; it will make matters alot worse because that will make the people of the tribal areas more estranged and alienated towards the whole notion of being Pakistani or consider Pakistan their country...this is an unfortunate situation
I agree, this double standards of ISI and Army has given chance to people like Karzai to threaten Pakistan.
Pakistan should sideline itself fromt the Bush's personal war in Afhganistan. should seal its border for atleast 5 years and take care of the rebels in NWFP, Balochistan and in Karachi.
How should the army take care of the rebels? Bomb them? It's doing that and has been doing so for the last couple of decades. Do you think that most people turn into rebels for fun? Often people get tired of the hopeless situation their provinces or cities are in and can't think of any other way than to pick up the arms. I'm not saying it's a good thing but one must try to understand where these people are coming from Has the government even asked people why are you involved in these riots etc? If you take Balochistan for instance it is the most underdeveloped province of the country with lacking infrastructure, education, health etc. The same goes for NWFP. Then you have feudal lords who take advantage of the vulnerability of the people and make them fight "their" wars against the establishment. Things are more complicated and can't be solved by arms only....that's a short term solution but a long term vision is needed.
And here comes another jihadi apologist. This type of widespread mentality is precisely why everyone is is afraid to take action against the terrorists.
If the army moves against the terrorists, people yell "busharraf is killing innocents". If the army does not move against the terrorists, people yell "ISI/army is training and letting the terrorists go free".
Excuse me? When a country ends up slaugthering its own people you call that healing up cancer??
Terrorists are slaughtering people in Pakistan daily. Did that fact slip out of your brain? Do you call that progress and healing?
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Seriously, do you have any idea of how many innocent people including women and children end up getting killed by the PAK army? Nor to say raped?
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How many? Why don't you tell us the number of rapes and murders of innocents committed by pak army vs the number of innocents killed by the terrorists?
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The military operation will not solve a single thing; it will make matters alot worse because that will make the people of the tribal areas more estranged and alienated towards the whole notion of being Pakistani or consider Pakistan their country...this is an unfortunate situation
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Peace deals have not solved anything. Ordinary tribals themselves are the ones being killed the most by the taliban in case you noticed. Have you even bothered to to look at the news at all?
Isn't that called falling in the trap? We have seen Taliban/Alqaida having no mercy for Pakistan forces/people, do we really care whether US is using Taliban/Alqaida for destabilising Pakistan?
By playing dual game we are not only killing ourselves but also helping the monster grow bigger.
No, US is not going to sit in Afghanistan forever and when the tide turns Pakistan will want sympathetic people in its border region. Remember Afghans do not want US in their country either or us, better to help them fight their enemy (which appears to be our friend to them, who really create this jihadi headache for us time to time, certain rogue groups of Taliban can be tolerated but not a whole mainstream Afghani regime of Taliban going against Pakistan). This is no easy game to play.
Crowd watches Pakistan militants kill 2 Afghans
By HABIBULLAH KHAN and RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writers 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
KHAR, Pakistan - A gang of Pakistani militants executed two Afghan prisoners in front of thousands of cheering supporters Friday, beheading one man and shooting the other after accusing them of aiding a U.S. missile strike.
The executions in the Bajur region highlighted the power of local Taliban forces in lawless tribal areas near the Afghan border.
Also Friday, a top U.N. official expressed fears that Pakistan’s peace deals with militants were sparking a wave of similar abuses.
Militants calling from the loudspeakers of mosques summoned people to the banks of a stream outside the town of Khar, about 120 miles northwest of Islamabad. At least 5,000 people gathered to watch the executions.
^ This does not absolve Mushy from his part of the blame-share, Mushy is still responsible for half hearted/delayed operations, giving millions of US$ to Mehsud in name of "compromise" or whatever that was. Now its his people coming to bite the Pakistani population in behind.
He attempted to make peace with them because of the jihadi apologists within Pakistan who were after him for killing "our own people". And money always is a big part of any jirga decision.
Dismantling the agencies and the military looked like a good idea in Iraq too.
Dismantling them in Pakistan is also a very bad idea...they have to be made accountable and answerable to the elected government.
In the decade of 90s we saw they were not answerable to any elected government...Kargil episode, and destablising the government several times in Pakistan....eventually taking over the government in 1999....what did they achieve for the country by doing all this.
I am afraid they want to start a new era of engineered democracy like 90s now....and want to continue their rogue status...it is absolutely essential to make the army and agencies answerable to the executive authority....and made to work within their legal boundaries...and must only work within a certain discipline...
A grade 20 officer should not be allowed to attack another country without informing the Prime Minister of the country let alone taking consent from him...should not be allowed to dismantle all the elected assemblies and the government...should not be allowed to sack the whole judiciary of the country and imprison them together with their children...and should not be allowed to accupy the Presidency illegally by getting himself elected in an illegal manner by black mailing the whole system...just because he has the rogue army and agencies under his command...is this your idea of solving the problems of our nation ???
Given time Taliban will strike Pakistan if they aren't in line with their way of life, why should you think otherwsie? Those fighting for the future of Pakistan should be placed in high honor.
He attempted to make peace with them because of the jihadi apologists within Pakistan who were after him for killing "our own people". And money always is a big part of any jirga decision.
so when he attacked terrorists/Taliban it was out of his own will but when he made deals it was because he couldn't withstand pressure on him, one armyman/commando he was, definitely "sab se pehlay Pakistan".
No, US is not going to sit in Afghanistan forever and when the tide turns Pakistan will want sympathetic people in its border region.
And in all that time we support a mosnter who is killing our own people, our own armymen? Who knows for how long US remains in Afghanistan?
Remember Afghans do not want US in their country either or us, better to help them fight their enemy (which appears to be our friend to them, who really create this jihadi headache for us time to time, certain rogue groups of Taliban can be tolerated but not a whole mainstream Afghani regime of Taliban going against Pakistan). This is no easy game to play.
US has long interests in Afghanistan, if all they wanted was to oust Taliban (so called objective) they'd have gone end of 2002/03. Whether Afghanis want US out of their country or not we cannot destroy our own nation, we cannot let world declare our country as terrorists/terrorists-haven, this is detrimental to our existence and our society.
You also should remember Afghanis have been anti-Pakistani since birth of Pakistan.
so when he attacked terrorists/Taliban it was out of his own will but when he made deals it was because he couldn't withstand pressure on him, one armyman/commando he was, definitely "sab se pehlay Pakistan".
Taliban attacks - pakistani army retaliates - jirga - peace deal - taliban disregard deal and attack - begin cycle.
I hope you can understand that decisions in pakistan, even by a dictator are not yes and no, but go through a lot of red tape, discussions and advice from various people. There are always 2 groups of people with different opinions. Somethings one group wins, sometimes the other.
Bottom line is that an effective COIN ops could never really be carried out due to the pakistani public's sympathy towards taliban, hatred towards america (thinking that any army action is on the behest of the US), lack of proper objectives and operations conducted in all areas, and the obvious flaws in military tactics.
This current so-called "operation" will also not go anywhere because key elements of counter insurgency are missing. A few:
the long term deployment of soldiers in the region until there objectives (eradication of talibs) are met
search and seizure ops, rapid deployment forces, patrols that go beyond the main road, community out reach.
immediate and tangible economic incentives followed by development
training of FC, police and army in counter insurgency tactics, along with required equipment. For this he entire mentality of the military will have to change and it will take many years. Focus on flexibility, independent thinking of soldiers is key in urban ops with fast changing battle lines.
availability of air assets with FACs embedded with local troops - an unhindered line of communication across services and chain of command without the typical pakistani bureaucracy. If troops get stuck in an ambush, they should not be more than 2 radio calls higher up from backup of some kind.
Blowing up empty houses is not an operation, it's just a spectacle.
so when he attacked terrorists/Taliban it was out of his own will but when he made deals it was because he couldn't withstand pressure on him, one armyman/commando he was, definitely "sab se pehlay Pakistan".
All this nora kushti of 5000 taliban can not be controlled by our massive armed forces...I think people who have used this pretext for last 10 years to illegally rule the country stand exposed and public is not ready to buy these lies anymore...
The area where these taliban are operating are all land locked...Do you think the sophisticated arms and ammunition with which they are fighting fall from the sky as Allah's help to them...and to finance all their activity the print dollars and euros...
the long term deployment of soldiers in the region until there objectives (eradication of talibs) are met
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I can give you a more simpler and practical solution to all this problem which will surely work....just put some serving and ex generals of Pakistan army in jail who exploit this situation for their own personal benefit...the air will quickly fizzle out of this balloon...