Your Idols infact as you have described them do not promote unity among hindu's, they allow them to make their own choice in everything, even when praying to God.<<
Unity well why should there be. Everybody has a choice to his own Gods. Who am I to impose anything upon other people.
If you follow one religion then there should be more or less one practice and path, logically that would make sense<<
Logically that is true. But practically it doesn't happen does it? Why are there Shia-Sunni, Protestant-Catholic differences and so many interpretations in monotheistic religions?
Anyway we are talking Religion here, not Logic
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
*Unity well why should there be. Everybody has a choice to his own Gods. Who am I to impose anything upon other people.
*
No one asked you to impose anything ... if you believe in one God, then he's the one imposes these things in his teachings ... unity is a must in everything ...
**
Logically that is true. But practically it doesn't happen does it? Why are there Shia-Sunni, Protestant-Catholic differences and so many interpretations in monotheistic religions?
Anyway we are talking Religion here, not Logic**
[/quote]
Practically it does happen, none of the muslim sects or factions differ in the core of our religion, the differences are either political or different schools of thought (which means they interprete the same thing differently, but these thins are not from the core of religion, they are very deep topics ,,, you have to be pretty knowledgable to get involved in the study of such things). Ofcourse then there are some outlawed factions, which are not considered muslims among us since they are in conflict with the religious core.
Ofcourse then there are some outlawed factions, which are not considered muslims among us since they are in conflict with the religious core.<<
Who are they ? Do you consider Quadiyanis, Ismailis etc., heretics?
Can you give me a list?
What are you Shia or Sunni?
**Do not try and stir trouble by causing a rift and divide. If you are so genuinely interested in diverse differences, conduct your own research. The web is vast!
Sentinel.**
[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited December 07, 2001).]
christians use jesus's statue and bhudist
use bhuddha's idol. everybody has their own method of praying. if it makes them happy and makes them spirtual wht is the big deal.
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**>>Ofcourse then there are some outlawed factions, which are not considered muslims among us since they are in conflict with the religious core.<<
Who are they ? Do you consider Quadiyanis, Ismailis etc., heretics?
Can you give me a list?
What are you Shia or Sunni?
**Do not try and stir trouble by causing a rift and divide. If you are so genuinely interested in diverse differences, conduct your own research. The web is vast!
Sentinel.**
[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited December 07, 2001).]**
[/quote]
Yes quadiyanis are not considered muslims, Ismaelies as well. Some people are in doubt, about Ahmadees too, but i aint that knowledgable about them.
I'm a sunni .....
Hey what about answering moi questions ? We
ll discuss the sects later on after we're through the basics, and the stuff i'm asking.
[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz: christians use jesus's statue and bhudist
use bhuddha's idol. everybody has their own method of praying. if it makes them happy and makes them spirtual wht is the big deal.
[/quote]
See thats the whole thing, there shouldnt be a man made way of praying .... when God has sent you revelation on how to live your life, by a certain code ... then there need no more innovations ... who are we humans to question or mend Gods teachings, we're his servants ... Rvikz, do you believe in judgement day (i aint talking about doomsday), i dont know if you are hindu ... but if you are do u think u'll be reincarnated forever?
1.Significance of Idol being infront of you:
None. Infact one tradition followed by Caste HIndus is Gayatri Mantra, which you recite facing the Sun every morning. Sun is called th eliving God. I went through the ceremony myself. All you have to do is wake up in the morning, face the Sun and recite the Gayatri(Given to HIndus by Viswamitra, who is not a Brahmin but a Kshatriya)
You don’t do it as a community though, it is an individual thing.
2.Judgement Day: Nope. We don’t believe in judgement day. Nor do we believe in Forgiveness for sins which makes eminent sense to me.
You have to be pay for your sins and Hinduism believes in ‘Karma Phala’ which one can’t escape. You are answerable for your deeds this life and after. You can’t escape your Karma!!
Sentinel you said,
Do not try and stir trouble by causing a rift and divide. If you are so genuinely interested in diverse differences, conduct your own research. The web is vast! <<
I know the Web is vast. I am not interested in strring trouble by causing rift and divide in Muslims. Muslims are doing an excellent job of it themselves
What I am trying to point out is that sect based discrimination and quarrels among Muslims are akin to Caste based discrimination and quarrels among Hindus.
I don’t think either Religion recommends it
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**LoksCanKill, to answer your questions..
1.Significance of Idol being infront of you:
None. Infact one tradition followed by Caste HIndus is Gayatri Mantra, which you recite facing the Sun every morning. Sun is called th eliving God. I went through the ceremony myself. All you have to do is wake up in the morning, face the Sun and recite the Gayatri(Given to HIndus by Viswamitra, who is not a Brahmin but a Kshatriya)
You don't do it as a community though, it is an individual thing.
**
So in hinduism who created the universe and us, or the objects that you worship as Gods .. like the Sun you just mentioned. I mean who is the Almighty ...
**
2.Judgement Day: Nope. We don't believe in judgement day. Nor do we believe in Forgiveness for sins which makes eminent sense to me.
You have to be pay for your sins and Hinduism believes in 'Karma Phala' which one can't escape. You are answerable for your deeds this life and after. You can't escape your Karma!!
**
If you dont believe in forgiveness of sins, then why consider an entity called SIN, what is 'Karma Phala' .... i dont understand that. So you believe in afterlife (if so, then what about reincarnation, when will ur afterlife begin, are there limitations to reincarnation). You said you are answerable to deeds, who will you be answerable to?
[/quote]
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[This message has been edited by LooksCanKill (edited December 07, 2001).]
.. like the Sun you just mentioned. I mean who is the Almighty ...<<
Whoever you worship as God. It is a polytheistic religion.
then why consider an entity called SIN, what is 'Karma Phala' .... i dont understand that.<<
Karma Phala is the fruit of your Karma
So you believe in afterlife (if so, then what about reincarnation, when will ur afterlife begin, are there limitations to reincarnation). <<
Yes we do. But Hinduism as far as I know lays no particular stress on it. It is a possibliity!!
You said you are answerable to deeds, who will you be answerable to?<<
Yourself OfCourse. One of the corner stones of Hinduism is that there is Divinity in a Human Being and it is your failure if you sdon't let it out.
Since you know frigging well what sins you have committed you are expected to atone for them yourself.
No FOrgiveness. It makes a lot of sense. The people you hurt are humans too, before the eyes of God. So, forgiving YOU for the sins you committted against others is DEGRADING Others who are as human as you are right?
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**>>.. like the Sun you just mentioned. I mean who is the Almighty ...<<
Whoever you worship as God. It is a polytheistic religion.
then why consider an entity called SIN, what is 'Karma Phala' .... i dont understand that.<<
Karma Phala is the fruit of your Karma
So you believe in afterlife (if so, then what about reincarnation, when will ur afterlife begin, are there limitations to reincarnation). <<
Yes we do. But Hinduism as far as I know lays no particular stress on it. It is a possibliity!!
You said you are answerable to deeds, who will you be answerable to?<<
Yourself OfCourse. One of the corner stones of Hinduism is that there is Divinity in a Human Being and it is your failure if you sdon't let it out.
Since you know frigging well what sins you have committed you are expected to atone for them yourself.
No FOrgiveness. It makes a lot of sense. The people you hurt are humans too, before the eyes of God. So, forgiving YOU for the sins you committted against others is DEGRADING Others who are as human as you are right?
**
[/quote]
But ultimately who is going to make you pay for your sins?
Well the concept of ‘Karma’ covers it.
It is your inescapable fate.
You will pay for your misdeeds.
So, the question ‘Who is going to make you pay for your sins?’ is not appropriate here.
You yourself will pay for your sins.
Hinduism seems as remorseless as a credit card company on this one
The important distinction, that I could see is that there is no concept of God forgiving your sins.
Hindus don’t have a judgement day concept like Muslims.
So there is no distant day after death when you will answer for what you did during life.
Hey Andhra with all respect to ur religion, miss can u tell me why is hinduisam a class seperated religion, does ur God only listen to a specific class. Or ur God listen to all and regards to one class. The thing about conflicts between muslims,is not what is presented to u, or what u think it is. Can u look at India for a second and tell me why Berhamen hate other classes, especially the poorest? this is one question. The other is look in ur holy book and histry of hinduisam and tell me why hindus had war between themselves? the third question is How Budhisam and Seikhisum strated,and how it is related to Hinduisum?
[quote]
Originally posted by Humanity: Hindus are most peace loving people on the world they do not belive in such idiotic concepts like jihad
[/quote]
Miss Humanity Read with ur glasses on ur Hindu friends already proof that there is a concept of jihad in them. If diong right thing,cleaning ur soul from evil wills, and stopping others from diong bad things,not leting pwerful people to hurt weak people is an idiotic idea then i am 100% sure jihad is whatever u said is right.
Caste is not as powerful a factor as it was socially. Though I feel it is kept alive by cested interests.
Caste is an identity within an identity really.
Just as a Pakistani is a Mulim/Pakistani and a Punjabi or a SIndhi or whatever.
Untochability is now illegal. Many of the so-called untouchables took to Christianity anyway, atleast in my part of the country.
Not that it works all that well. Everybody knows their caste
Dear miss can u update ur info about caste in India they are call punjabi, umratsari,utarpurdasi and etc. it is in ur reliogion mam. Why u hindus don’t answer a question the way it is asked instead u make the sense of question in ur favor…no offens to ur religion it is about ur people. One more question who is so call untouch able Were they hindus? why they turn to christanity? and Why u talk about them in Humaliating sense? I asked u to check ur religion history not todays facts mam.
[This message has been edited by Zerba (edited December 11, 2001).]
Saima Iqbal:
Please refrain from jerking ur mouth off here, the atmosphere was pleasant enough to hold sensible indepth discussions until you came. I have been having a sober discussion with Andhra here ... doesnt mean if we are muslims we should always shun hindus in our talk.
Zerba:
Please base your discussion on sensible arguments ... not cuss the person out and say this is wrong and that is wrong. Try to find out what their opinion is about what they believe in, then have a sensible and sober counter discussion instead of pulling the trigger in ur question.
Andhra:
Hey waiting for you to answer my question.
No Punjabi itself is not a caste. THere are different Castes within Punjabis,Biharis etc.,
No, I am not trying to insult any Caste. Infact I think untouchability is stupid.
LooksCanKill, I think I answered your questions. You pay for your sins here and now. In this very life.
Yes, there is reincarnation. The whole package deal is that your ‘Karma’, in this case your sins will follow you. You have to pay for them.
No forgiveness, ablutions. All the ceremonies are for repentance but nowwhere do all those Mantras say you are fogiven your sins.