First question Andhra ..... when the verse says "if you will not fight this ..."
Which war does it refer to, what kind of war is this, under what context was this verse revealed (or whatever word you use in hindi). Who are the enemies in this war that is being refered to. And why are they enemies?
Waiting for answers .... i wanna be constructive here ... i wont lash out, i wanna really know what you have to say about these verses ....
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
If jihad means striving in the way of God OR inner struggle against one’s temptations and desires then every religion in the world no matter where it originated supports it. No second opinion about that.
I have serious reservations about misuse of term "Jihad" by fanatics which is happening now.
The war the verse referes to is the Maha Bharata war. It happened in Kurukshetra, India.
The war was between Pandavas and Kauravas and Krishna regarded as the incarnation of VIshnu ws on the side of Pandavas.
LCK,
I am not a religious minded person and I have not studied Geetha. But I would like to throw some light on what situation Geetha was reveled.
During Mahabharat war - Arjuna was supposed to fight his cousins who did bad things. In battlefiled Arjuna becomes sad at the prospect of killing his own relatives. Then Lord Krishna gives this advice as mentioned above
If you will not fight this righteous war, then you will fail in your duty, lose your reputation, and incur sin. (2.33)
Similar to the situation in Pak- Afghan now. Even if they are your own people and belong to your own religion if they do something wrong it is your duty to fight them. Dont shut your mouth and let them do whatever they want to.
I dont know too much about this subject. Maybe some knowledgeable person can throw some light or go to some Hindu sites.
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
The war the verse referes to is the Maha Bharata war. It happened in Kurukshetra, India.
The war was between Pandavas and Kauravas and Krishna regarded as the incarnation of VIshnu ws on the side of Pandavas.
[/quote]
So tell another thing ... how old is hinduism? And who is regarded the ultimate example in hinduism? What is the concept of God in Hinduism?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
Anywhare betwen 3,000 to 4,000 years old. The Aryan invasion is agreed to be around 1,500 B.C. and either destroyed or assimilated with the Indus Valley Civilization that existed then.
There is a Trimuvarite in Hinduism. Shiva - The Destroyer, Brahma - The Creator, Vishnu - the Manager for lack of abetter word.
Usually if whenever you see a Hindu Temple it is either for Shiva or one of the several incarnations of Vishnu (10 of them are there
So then who is God in hinduism?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
So then who is God in hinduism?<<
Listen, who is God is entirely upto a HIndu to decide. You do have Gurus(Prophets) or Sons of Gods or incarnation of Gods(Avataars) in Hinduism, but one Hindu’s God/Gods are not binding upon anthers.
You are Free to choose!!!
Pesrsonally I think it is wonderful.
That is the reason why a Hindu has no theological objetction to a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Zoarashtrian, Jain, Buddhist, Sikh, Bahai etc.,
THEY on the otherhand seem to have a lot of half-ass objections to Hinduism.
Tell me one thing, If this Allah and the Last Prophet business is really true, why are MUslims slaughtering each other?
Like Iranis and Iraqis? Like Afghan tribes? East and West Pakistanis?
I know, I know.
The standard defense is that they are not Muslims at all. Easy way out
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Let’s assume that the standard defense is valid.
Then don’t you think Muslims in all countries should think more about the sorry state of their own affairs before meddling with other religions?
**edited. Stick to the topic
Sentinel.**
[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited December 07, 2001).]
Like in any religion in Hinduism also there is one God Almighty who is all powerful. We worship him in different forms and different names. Some worship him has Ram some as Krishna or some as Durga so on . That way we are free to worship God in any name or any form. Name or form is just symbolic.
The God you worship and I worship are one - its only that we call HIM by different names. The different Gods and Goddesses of Hinduism represent various functions of this One Supreme Divinity, and are not separate Gods.
Hey i didnt ask for a lecture on Arab or Pakistani affairs or on Islam, i’m simply asking you things about Hinduism … no need to get pissed. I was respectful and didnt lash out at any of your posting. So behave.
Well my question would be since you are free to choose your own symbolic representation of God in hinduism, then what are the defining characteristics of God in hinduism? And how long has he been in existence according to hinduism?
Its our Wits that make us MEN … ‘Braveheart’
[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited December 07, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by taurus:
**Like in any religion in Hinduism also there is one God Almighty who is all powerful. We worship him in different forms and different names. Some worship him has Ram some as Krishna or some as Durga so on . That way we are free to worship God in any name or any form. Name or form is just symbolic.
The God you worship and I worship are one - its only that we call HIM by different names. The different Gods and Goddesses of Hinduism represent various functions of this One Supreme Divinity, and are not separate Gods. **
[/quote]
If you and I worship the same God, then what do you have to say about the oneness of God and his revelations to his prophets. If we have the same God, then is there any mention of prophets from either Islam, Christianity or Judiasm in hinduism?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
Well, I think I will be justified in one description of God that is Hindu religious ceremonies.
"The being with infinite dimensions.
Who is the Axis of this Universe
Because of whom the universe is possible..."
I personally liked it. If you know a little Sanskrit, you will sense the sophistication behind describing God in such terms.
As for being 'How Old' Hinduism describes God as 'SwayamBhuvu' that is God created himself. So 'Old' and 'Young' do not apply to him.
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
Well, I think I will be justified in one description of God that is Hindu religious ceremonies.
"The being with infinite dimensions.
Who is the Axis of this Universe
Because of whom the universe is possible..."
I personally liked it. If you know a little Sanskrit, you will sense the sophistication behind describing God in such terms.
As for being 'How Old' Hinduism describes God as 'SwayamBhuvu' that is God created himself. So 'Old' and 'Young' do not apply to him.
[/quote]
Isn't there a definite meaning, i mean like something fixed which does not vary or is it regarded a sin to specify Gods characteristics on your own desire.
So you mean in Hinduism God is self sustaining. Since Hindu people may have different symbols as their Gods, would it be possible that they are refering to a God of their own desire or that their interpretations of God differ from one another ... if that is the case the oneness issue of God in hinduism would be conflicting with such symbolic representation, do you think i'm rigth in what i said?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
Not really conflicting.
Take me for example. I believe in God Shiva and prefer to go to a Shiva Temple. I like the simplicity I see there and I like the fact that Shiva is not a 'Rich' God.
At the same time there could be half a billion Hindus who believe in Vishnu.
I have no conflict with them. There is no one 'Book' and one 'Prophet' in Hinduism.
At the same time, there is no sin in believing in Prophets.
For example you find many Hindus named 'Siddartha', 'TadhaGath' , 'Gautam' which are other names for 'Budhha'. When did Hindus start respecting or accepting Budhha after rejecting his religion? Nobody knows.
So you can belive in God or several, accept Idols or no you are still a Hindu.
Personally I think this 'Idolatory' is an obssession with Non-Hindus.
If you think about it, what is Kaaba if not an idol?
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
Not really conflicting.
Take me for example. I believe in God Shiva and prefer to go to a Shiva Temple. I like the simplicity I see there and I like the fact that Shiva is not a 'Rich' God.
At the same time there could be half a billion Hindus who believe in Vishnu.
I have no conflict with them. There is no one 'Book' and one 'Prophet' in Hinduism.
At the same time, there is no sin in believing in Prophets.
For example you find many Hindus named 'Siddartha', 'TadhaGath' , 'Gautam' which are other names for 'Budhha'. When did Hindus start respecting or accepting Budhha after rejecting his religion? Nobody knows.
So you can belive in God or several, accept Idols or no you are still a Hindu.
Personally I think this 'Idolatory' is an obssession with Non-Hindus.
If you think about it, what is Kaaba if not an idol?
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Ka'aba is not an idol nor has it anything to do with it. The purpose of havig it is for muslim unity (as it is stressed in Islam), it means that all muslims should point in one direction, its not the Ka'aba we are worshipping when we are facing it, that would be a sin for us. Before Al Quds used to be that direction, but it was shifted to being Ka'aba.
I still dont grasp the point, if you have Vishnu and Shiva ... then how is ur God still one. OK u say they are idols then, what is there significance ... why cant u pray to ur one God without having an idol to represent it. Like us say say about ka'aba, but its a lil' different in what we do and you do.
Secondly, prophets ... do u believe in Abraham, Adam, Jesus, Muhammad and other prophets etc.
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
The
word 'IDOLATORY' literally means worshipping statues, images and
effigies. However, in reality, no one worships statues, images or
effigies because people worships what these statues and images
represents rather than the statues itself. For instance, when someone
prays in front of an idol,he prays to the supernatural powers and
divinity of what the idol represents. They do not worship the idol
itself.
pakistani salutes their flag flag itself
is piece of cloth it does not have intrinsic
value but it is symbol of the nation.
I still dont grasp the point, <<
Well, matter of fact you don’t
Let me see if I can make it clear.
1.There is no RULE, no IMPOSITION on your interpretation of God.
No Hindu asks another if he believes in one God or many.
So you can believe in one God or many or none at all!!. It is up to you. It is normal for a HIndu that he goes to the temple of one God.
Some of them go for speciality Gods too. For example Saraswati the wife of Brahma the creator f the Universe is the Goddess of Education.
I know many students who go to her temple before an Exam
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2.IDOLS: Frankly rivkzmafe the point. It is not the idol itself you are venrating, but what it respresents.
I think the objection to idolatory arose in Islam and Judaism becauise beofre these religions came along Arabs and Jews in that area were doing Pagan rituals before their Gods. Hindus don’t do that. Unless you go for the Tantra school of Hinduism, but that is a different topic.
There are no pagan revelries in a Hindu temple.
Yes there used to be dances but they were in the compound of a temple. Not the kind of hot stuff you imagine
But i dont think .. anything in this world is fit to represent God ... thats my point, we take things in this world as evidence of his supremacy but dont consider them sources to himself ....
Its impossible and beyond human perception to materialize God ... which is why we dont believe in Idols or stuff. What does an idol have nothing, its man made .... how could it represent anything from God ...
The Idol wont get you anything ... when you are bowing in front of an Idol what do you have in mind ... does the idol being there make any difference.
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
You are free not to believe in idolatory in Hinduism. But there is just a little bit of hypocricy here.
does the idol being there make any difference.<<
Does the Kaaba being or not being there make any difference for a Muslim.
If it is not an Idol it shouldn't make any difference isn't it?
Then why do Muslims trek all the way to Mecca to go around it?
Because its a symbol of our unity, and its a wonder from our Islamic history built by Prophet Abraham … to answer your question, let me tell as a muslim i can pray anywhere (ofcourse not a bathroom, it would be ridiculous if you bring up points like that). If i dont know where the Ka’ba is its not as if my prayer wont be accepted … i’ve prayed many times on the road during transit along state routes here in USA.
And one more thing, as a muslim i know which direction the Ka’ba is usually … and its my duty to find out, but for some inapprpriate occasion where i dont know ican pray in any direction i belive is right.
The point of praying in direction of the KA’aba is not to idolize it but to demonstrate unity among muslims, even when we pray anywhere in the world we face the same direction … and thats the bottomline cos … said so
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The surroundings of Ka’aba are sacred to us because of our Islamic history in that region and with those architectures which is why you see us revolving around the ka’aba during hajj.
But you still didnt answer what is the significance of an idol not being infront of you while you pray. And what significance does it add if it is there. Your Idols infact as you have described them do not promote unity among hindu’s, they allow them to make their own choice in everything, even when praying to God. If you follow one religion then there should be more or less one practice and path, logically that would make sense. A religion is supposed to govern your way through life, not spread it out in differenbt directions … otherwise what good is the guidance you get from it, it will just confuse you.
Its our Wits that make us MEN … ‘Braveheart’