You get salvation. You get out of the cycle of Births and Rebirths.
Yes there is the concept of Heaven being ruled by Indra and stuff. But they are held to have lesser powers than the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
Indra and animal sacrifices etc., are brought in by the Aryans. Rig Veda is similar to Iranian Avesta.
Over the time the Vedic Gods became less prominent.
What is left is the Trinity of Brhma,Shiva,VIshnu and his reincarnations.
Shiva in particular has some similarities to Pasupati the God of Indus Valley Civilization.
An Educated guess is that over the time, the Aryan Gods were absorbed into Hindu Religion and culture.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by LooksCanKill:
***Saima Iqbal:*
Please refrain from jerking ur mouth off here, the atmosphere was pleasant enough to hold sensible indepth discussions until you came. I have been having a sober discussion with Andhra here ... doesnt mean if we are muslims we should always shun hindus in our talk.
Zerba:
Please base your discussion on sensible arguments ... not cuss the person out and say this is wrong and that is wrong. Try to find out what their opinion is about what they believe in, then have a sensible and sober counter discussion instead of pulling the trigger in ur question.
Andhra:
Hey waiting for you to answer my question.
**
[/QUOTE
he is right kids don't make fun of each others religion.
[This message has been edited by DAADI_AMMA (edited December 11, 2001).]
What you think about day of jugment, how it effects you in our everyday life? can explain it widly.
[This message has been edited by DAADI_AMMA (edited December 11, 2001).]
**
[/QUOTE]
Zerba:
Please base your discussion on sensible arguments ... not cuss the person out and say this is wrong and that is wrong. Try to find out what their opinion is about what they believe in, then have a sensible and sober counter discussion instead of pulling the trigger in ur question.**
[/QUOTE]
Can u point out where I cussed?
[This message has been edited by Zerba (edited December 11, 2001).]
DAADI_AMMA, I already explained that if you see my posts.
Hinduism has no concept of the day of Judgement.
There is good reason. Hindus regard Creation as a Cosmic Dream of Brahma, who sits in a Lotus that springs from the navel of Vishnu.
So when the dream stops creation ends and when the Lord dreams again creation begins.
So you see it is a continuum. No final reckoning day!!
I have another question,it may sound boring but I want to ask it. How you feel about people who makes fun of your religion. What your relgion says about it.
Because in our religion,if somebody disrespects our holy Prophet they are sentenced death. Do you have these situations in your religion too.
Nope. Criticism by Non-Hindus is not much tolerated nowadays.
I am talking about the situation in India.
Outside nobody criticized Hinduism directly.
I remember one guy talking about Idolatory and I made him admit Catholic practices are a very good example of it
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
Otherwise no. Infact Indians make slapstick comedies about Hindu Gods, just like Christians in the West do.
I will tell you one thing though. The intolerance is increasing because of outside influences.
One of the upshots of Rushdie affair is that it gave a precedent for a lot of nuts to go ahead andaccuse others of insulting their religion!!
Do u have a Law against it? I mean the disrespect of religion.
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
You get salvation. You get out of the cycle of Births and Rebirths.
Yes there is the concept of Heaven being ruled by Indra and stuff. But they are held to have lesser powers than the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
Indra and animal sacrifices etc., are brought in by the Aryans. Rig Veda is similar to Iranian Avesta.
Over the time the Vedic Gods became less prominent.
What is left is the Trinity of Brhma,Shiva,VIshnu and his reincarnations.
Shiva in particular has some similarities to Pasupati the God of Indus Valley Civilization.
An Educated guess is that over the time, the Aryan Gods were absorbed into Hindu Religion and culture.
[/quote]
Andhra ... i seem to be missing the continuity here.
If your reincarnation occurs till you achieve salvation then why would you pray to Gods when they dont play any role in your lives at all. According to your posts, they are not responsible for forgiving you or awarding punishment then your cycle of salvation doesnt really need a God and there is no need for Vishnu or Brahma (i dont want to get into specific entities ... aiming rather generally on the guideline or faith concept).
Another thing, when reincarnated ... the good gets better and the bad gets worse, so the latter is probably never bound to achieve salvation, which brings us to another question, do you believe in doomsday (which religiously interpreted means that this earth will come to an end).
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
No, the cycle of Salavation does need God. THat is what God is for. Whenever Humans deviate he comes down to Earth to establish Dharma.
By the way Hindus believe he comes to show the way, not give any eternal solution.
Basically Humans have to clear up thier own mess collectively. God will help.
As for the reincarnation, it is accepted but never stressed much like in Buddhism.
No the bad don't get better. They are given one more life perhaps with more miseries.What happens then is again upto them.It is like getting out of jail. You get a sacond chance don't ya!!
You have to understand Hinduism put a lot of Divinity in a Human being. It doesn't say Humans are sinful or are bad because they don't believe in a certain prophet or God.
Human beings are pefectly capable of understanding they are doing wrong things and they are quite capable of reforming themselves.
As some Hindus say Your Conscience is Your GOd
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**No, the cycle of Salavation does need God. THat is what God is for. Whenever Humans deviate he comes down to Earth to establish Dharma.
By the way Hindus believe he comes to show the way, not give any eternal solution.
Basically Humans have to clear up thier own mess collectively. God will help.
As for the reincarnation, it is accepted but never stressed much like in Buddhism.
No the bad don't get better. They are given one more life perhaps with more miseries.What happens then is again upto them.It is like getting out of jail. You get a sacond chance don't ya!!
You have to understand Hinduism put a lot of Divinity in a Human being. It doesn't say Humans are sinful or are bad because they don't believe in a certain prophet or God.
Human beings are pefectly capable of understanding they are doing wrong things and they are quite capable of reforming themselves.
As some Hindus say Your Conscience is Your GOd**
[/quote]
I dont disagree with the fact that humans have been given sense of right or wrong. But it still remains that there is one sovereign creator of us and this universe.
You did not mention about doomsday ... when this earth comes to an end then what wil happen?
Islam places a lot of divinity on a human as well, thats what are actually your religious responsibilties ... or what we call controlling your "Nafs". In fact that comes under a certain kind of Jihad, like Jihad doesnt only mean fighting with arms against an enemy, acheiving taqwa (as we say, you probably interpret it as salvation or karma) is also a kind of jihad.
You said God comes down to guide the hindu's to the rigth path, how does he do that in what form .... and what way?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
Hinduism doesn't have a Doomsday concept.
Infact the word Hindu itself is given by Pharisees.
Hindus call their way 'Sanatana Dharma'. It is a timeless way of life.
So under this point of view something like Doomsday happenning is accepted but it is not regarded as the end of all things.
Infact when Brahma decides another epoch will start!!
On a day to day basis in their religious life, Hindu rituals or religious thoughts don't involve or invoke Doomsday.
As for the other question, Yes God does come down to Earth. Rama and Krishna are Avataars of God Vishnu, whose duty it is to maintain the World!!
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**Hinduism doesn't have a Doomsday concept.
Infact the word Hindu itself is given by Pharisees.
Hindus call their way 'Sanatana Dharma'. It is a timeless way of life.
So under this point of view something like Doomsday happenning is accepted but it is not regarded as the end of all things.
Infact when Brahma decides another epoch will start!!
On a day to day basis in their religious life, Hindu rituals or religious thoughts don't involve or invoke Doomsday.
As for the other question, Yes God does come down to Earth. Rama and Krishna are Avataars of God Vishnu, whose duty it is to maintain the World!!**
[/quote]
So in a way you accept afterlife just like muslims do?
How were the prophets in Hinduism?
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[This message has been edited by LooksCanKill (edited December 12, 2001).]
Yes Hindus accept after life. Except Atheists I expect anybody who follows a religion does.
As far as 'Prophets' go, all the incarnations of God I guess should be held as Prophets.
Apart from that there are 'Holy' men, the Sai Babas etc., who some Hindus accept as Avataars.
These Holy Men are like Sufi Saints.
In your own mind Abdali, in your own mind. If you call it a mind
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
Abdali:
Either contribute sensibly and arguably to the discussion or shutup.
Well Andhra, if your God reincarnates then how does it make him different from humans ... i still dont find a concept of a supreme power in ur discussion.
There is no clear distinction between anything .....
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[This message has been edited by LooksCanKill (edited December 14, 2001).]
why people waste time after next life when we
have enough problems in the present life.
try to talk religious philosphies to straving and out of work people. what everbody wants in this present life?
[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
why people waste time after next life when we
have enough problems in the present life.
try to talk religious philosphies to straving and out of work people. what everbody wants in this present life?
[/quote]
Thats the whole point .... your after life will be a thorn up your ass if you screw up this life (incase you failed to see the point before bestowing us with your philosophical opinion).
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
why people waste time after next life when we have enough problems in the present life. try to talk religious philosphies to straving and out of work people. what everbody wants in this present life?
[/quote]
Then what is the difference between you and the baser animals? They live for their animal instincts on a day-to-day basis. And, that is what you are proposing. The man who is hungry but content with what Allah has given is better than man whose stomach is full, but is craving for more.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[This message has been edited by FactFinder (edited December 14, 2001).]
animals humans and palnts are part of the ecological system. we all share basic building block dna.
JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - South African researchers said Wednesday they had discovered an almost entire skeleton of an ape-man, the oldest such find anywhere in the world which could provide long-sought clues to the evolution of humankind.
The four-foot-tall fossil was unearthed at Sterkfontein on the outskirts of Johannesburg and is estimated to be 3.6 million years old.
The oldest previous skeleton was 3.2 million year-old ''Lucy,'' found in Ethiopia, while older specimens recovered from East Africa yielded only fragments of the whole frame.
``The new find at Sterkfontein is, therefore, the oldest hominid skeleton yet discovered anywhere in the world,'' said Tim Partridge. He, together with the Geomagnetism Laboratory of the University of Liverpool, assessed the age of the fossil.
Professor Phillip Tobias, who led the team of researchers from South Africa's University of the Witwatersrand, told a news conference that the discovery would answer many questions about human evolution that continue to mystify scientists.
Tobias said the age of the fossil would also help to provide clues to the debate on when some apes had evolved into humans.
``We're getting down nearer to the critical parting of the ways between apes and us -- perhaps five to seven million years,'' Tobias said.
Ron Clarke, director of excavations at Sterkfontein, said preliminary evidence showed that the ape-man not only walked upright, but was also a tree climber.
``We are at a time where humankind was experimenting with two-legged motion and we really do need full information on how they moved and ultimately that tells us what their lifestyle was,'' said Professor Hilary Deacon at Stellenbosch University.
``We need to know what these first stages in becoming human were about and I think it's a very exciting find in those terms,'' he told Reuters in a telephone interview.
Clarke said the full significance of the find would emerge once it was recovered from a 15-meter-deep limestone shaft.
``What we already know is it will reveal a very great deal about the anatomy and evolution of an early ape-man,'' he said.
``Just one bone would be exciting but this is apparently the whole skeleton -- the secret to knowing how the creature functioned. This eliminates any speculation,'' said Tobias.
``It is the most important find out of South Africa since the Taung skull was found in 1924 this probably exceeds that in importance,'' he said.
Past finds of ape-man fossils, including the oldest hominid bones in East Africa, have only been partial skeletons.
Professor Deacon said the South African discovery linked southern Africa with East Africa -- which has long been believed to be the cradle of modern man -- and underscored the importance of sub-Saharan Africa to the study of the origins of humankind.
``I think it's a very notable achievement. One needs to know how these creatures moved and having more of the skeleton is extremely important,'' Deacon said.
The discovery followed three years of work after Clarke chanced on four hominid footbones while looking in a box labeled ``animal bones'' which were collected from a cave at Sterkfontein on the outskirts of Johannesburg.
The footbones led him to believe that the rest of the skeleton must be fossilized in the cave.
Clarke's assistants, Nkwane Molefe and Stephen Motsumi, spent a year in the dark, wet cavern chipping away at the limestone looking for the skeleton.
Clarke said there were signs of further hominid fossils at Sterkfontein, site of more than 600 other fossil discoveries which South Africa has nominated as a World Heritage site.
``Up to now Australopithecus of that antiquity have only been found in east and central Africa so it's really thrilling that they came down this far,'' said Dave Roberts, a geologist with the Council for Geoscience.
``It does increase the possibility that the first modern humans arose in southern Africa and they may have migrated north'' he said.
Roberts said the age of the new ape man tied in with the footprints discovered in northern Tanzania which provided the first conclusive evidence of ape-like creatures walking upright.
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus Homo
Species: Homo sapiens
[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited December 14, 2001).]