IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?

[Zapatista]

Well since I don’t want to go too off topic in the "** What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis? " **thread. I though I should just start a new one.

So the question I asked the member “RealityCheck” in that thread was “At this very moment, right now, do you believe in Jesus (PBUH) as a Prophet?”

He didn’t answer my question clearly. All he said was “Having said that, I can’t be a Muslim if I don’t believe in HAZRAT ISA (AS) as a Prophet of Allah. I do believe HAZRAT ISA (AS) was Allah’s prophet and was raised by Allah to heavens and will INSHA-ALLAH come back to life from heavens as an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad (SA,PBUH).”

My question isn’t If Jesus WAS a Prophet, but if he** IS** a Prophet, right now, at this very moment. Since so called “Mainstream” Muslims believe that he’s still ALIVE in Heaven. He must be a Prophet, no? When you talk about someone who is alive, you’d say “He IS alive” and not “He WAS alive”. The letter case would apply to someone who is dead and not alive.

Edit:

Another reason for me to start this thread was RealityCheck saying that he won’t answer any questions about Jesus, because that thread wasn’t about him, but Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. But since I’m not an Ahmadi, and don’t hold too much knowledge on Ghulam Ahmad Sahib either. I just gave it a go with an entire new thread.

So Mr. RealityCheck or any other member on this board who’d like to participate in this thread. What do you believe in? IS Jesus a Prophet? A straight forward question which needs a straight forward answer.

Thanks.

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?

good luck with getting straight forward answers.

[Iconoclast]

Re: IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?

Putting a complicated religious doctrine into a straight forward question is neither easy nor is justified.

I will try to be as straight forward and simplified i can make it, so my answer (rather i will say, my understanding of muslim doctrine on Jesus is)

Jesus WAS a prophet. Which means that he is neither performing nor required to perform his prophetic duties at this time. He WAS a prophet like Saleh, Younus, Nuh a.s etc

[RealityCheck]

@라시드

Well since I don't want to go too off topic in the "** What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis? " **thread. I though I should just start a new one.

So the question I asked the member "RealityCheck" in that thread was "At this very moment, right now, do you believe in Jesus (PBUH) as a Prophet?"

He didn't answer my question clearly. All he said was "Having said that, I can't be a Muslim if I don't believe in HAZRAT ISA (AS) as a Prophet of Allah. I do believe HAZRAT ISA (AS) was Allah's prophet and was raised by Allah to heavens and will INSHA-ALLAH come back to life from heavens as an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad (SA,PBUH)."

My question isn't If Jesus WAS a Prophet, but if he** IS** a Prophet, right now, at this very moment. Since so called "Mainstream" Muslims believe that he's still ALIVE in Heaven. He must be a Prophet, no? When you talk about someone who is alive, you'd say "He IS alive" and not "He WAS alive". The letter case would apply to someone who is dead and not alive.

Edit:

Another reason for me to start this thread was RealityCheck saying that he won't answer any questions about Jesus, because that thread wasn't about him, but Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. But since I'm not an Ahmadi, and don't hold too much knowledge on Ghulam Ahmad Sahib either. I just gave it a go with an entire new thread.

So Mr. RealityCheck or any other member on this board who'd like to participate in this thread. What do you believe in? IS Jesus a Prophet? A straight forward question which needs a straight forward answer.

Thanks. :)

You need to understand the word Prophet or messenger of Allah.

Prophets are messengers of Allah to deliver his words/messages to common mankind to guide them to a right path.

Does Allah need Prophets where there is no mankind? NO

So this is clear that Prophets/Allah's messengers are co-related to mankind and only needed in the world since world is the only place known to man where mankind exists.

Having said and understood that, does man need more guidance after QURAN when Allah himself tells about the completeness of his guidance in QURAN? Absolutely NOT.

So Quran is a complete and final guidance from Allah and in other words no other messenger is needed because there are no more messages form Allah.

So when there are no more messages from Allah, obviously there is no need for a messenger or prophet.

Hazrat ISA(AS) is titled as a prophet in heavens but when Allah will send him back to this world, he will send him as the follower of his final guidance (QURAN) which will make HAZRAT ISA(AS) an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH).

I know you will still ask more questions picking on things making my simple explanation of TRUTH sound a tale far from reality but trust me, this is also predicted by Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and mentioned in QURAN 1400 years ago that there will be people who will 'create FITNA' by asking questions after questions just for the sake of arguments, not because they want to learn Islam...and Allah Talah has a special place for them in JAHANUM where they will live forever...

So bring it on...

RC

[Zapatista]

Thanks for your answer Iconolast.

What when Jesus comes back as the Messiah though? Will he then be a Prophet?

@RealityCheck

You need to understand the word Prophet or messenger of Allah.

Prophets are messengers of Allah to deliver his words to common mankind to guide them to a right path.

Does Allah need Prophets where there is no mankind? NO

So this is clear that Prophets/Allah's messengers are co-related to mankind and only needed in the world since world is the only place known to man where mankind exists.

Having said and understood that, does man need more guidance after QURAN when Allah himself tells about the completeness of his guidance in QURAN? Absolutely NOT.

So Quran is a complete and final guidance from Allah and in other words no other messenger is needed because there are no more messages form Allah.

So when there is no more messages from Allah, obviously there is no need for a messenger or prophet.

Hazrat ISA(AS) is titled as a prophet in heavens but when Allah will send him back to this world, he will send him as the follower of his final guidance (QURAN) which will make HAZRAT ISA(AS) an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH).

In Heaven Prophets aren't needed but Jesus is titled a Prophet? Contradiction much? So since Jesus is titled as Prophet, it mean's he is a Prophet? Why can't you just be straight forward and say "Yes Jesus IS a Prophet"?

[Mr.Popat]

Re: IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?

Jesus AS died a natural death. He AS WAS a true messenger of Allah. Allah has taken his spirit and raised it's status. He AS was not ascended to heavens as Allah is NOT just in heavens. Allah has no physical shape and hence can NOT be beyond a certain point. Allah says :

“..He is with you wherever you are..” (57:4)

Then he says ..

“..Nowhere is there a secret counsel between three persons but He is the fourth of them, nor (between) five but He is the sixth of them, nor less than that nor more BUT HE IS WITH THEM WHERESOEVER THEY ARE..” (58:7)

Hadith mentioning the coming of Jesus AS is meant to be for Muslim Messiah. Jesus AS of Nazareth coming back makes no sense. So yeah, Jesus AS of Nazareth is dead.

[RealityCheck]

@라시드

In Heaven Prophets aren't needed but Jesus is titled a Prophet? Contradiction much?

Absolutely not a contradiction.

One can have a Title of soemthing and not act or doesnt' need to act that title.

for example: say right now your title is Muslim but are you acting like one ?

[RealityCheck]

@Mr.Popat

...Hadith mentioning the coming of Jesus AS is meant to be for Muslim Messiah. Jesus AS of Nazareth coming back makes no sense. So yeah, Jesus AS of Nazareth is dead.

There are so many things that are beyond our comprehension.

Our inability to see the truth or understand the simple facts don't make their existence doubtful at all...

RC

[Mr.Popat]

@RealityCheck

There are so many things that are beyond our comprehension.

Our inability to see the truth or understand the simple facts don't make their existence doubtful at all...

RC

"you will not see any alteration in the way of Allah" says Quran. This applies to everyone prophet or just a regular person. Whatever Quran says, we accept it as it is, with no question at all. Whatever it is not mentioned and people have their own stories behind it is questionable.

[Mr.Popat]

@RealityCheck

Absolutely not a contradiction.

One can have a Title of soemthing and not act or doesnt' need to act that title.

for example: say right now your title is Muslim but are you acting like one ?

Contradiction indeed. One is technically NOT a Muslim if s/he is not acting like one. Similarly, one can not be a prophet if the tasks assigned to Him is not been done by Him.

[Iconoclast]

@라시드

Thanks for your answer Iconolast.

What when Jesus comes back as the Messiah though? Will he then be a Prophet?

I find it diffcult to give a simple verdict because then it all boils down to definitions. But let me try to do my best. According to what i have read and heard.

• He will come as an ummati.
• Its not clear whether he will continue to receive revelations (Wahi) from Allah or not, no Hadith to my knowledge explicitly says he will or he will not.
• He is not going to bring any new commandmets.
• He will act as leader of muslims in religious as well as political fields.

[Zapatista]

@""RealityCheck""

Absolutely not a contradiction.

One can have a Title of soemthing and not act or doesnt’ need to act that title.

for example: say right now your title is Muslim but are you acting like one ?

A teacher who doesn’t teach? An alcoholic who doesn’t drink? An insane sane man? LOL Yeah right…

I’m acting like a rational human being. My religion called Islam is a rational religion for human beings who are capable of logical thinking. It’s a straight forward religion. Which doesn’t give people messages in riddles that they have to figure out.

I don’t run around and call people kafir because they have a
different interpretation or POV. I don’t call them non- muslim. I don’t call Ahmadis Kafir.

Remember:

@Bukhari VOL. 78 / 44

Withhold (your tongues) from those who say “There is no god but Allah”. Do not call them Kafir. Whoever calls a reciter of “There is no god but Allah” as a
Kafir , is nearer to being a Kafir himself.‘’

[Zapatista]

@""Iconoclast""

I find it diffcult to give a simple verdict because then it all boils down to definitions. But let me try to do my best. According to what i have read and heard.

• He will come as an ummati.
• Its not clear whether he will continue to receive revelations (Wahi) from Allah or not, no Hadith to my knowledge explicitly says he will or he will not.
• He is not going to bring any new commandmets.
• He will act as leader of muslims in religious as well as political fields.

@Surah 19 Verse 30-31

Verily, I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and has made me a prophet and has made me blessed, wherever I may be. And He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live.

^^

[AllahkaBanda]

@Mr.Popat

Jesus AS died a natural death. He AS WAS a true messenger of Allah. Allah has taken his spirit and raised it's status. He AS was not ascended to heavens as Allah is NOT just in heavens. Allah has no physical shape and hence can NOT be beyond a certain point. Allah says :

“..He is with you wherever you are..” (57:4)

Then he says ..

“..Nowhere is there a secret counsel between three persons but He is the fourth of them, nor (between) five but He is the sixth of them, nor less than that nor more BUT HE IS WITH THEM WHERESOEVER THEY ARE..” (58:7)

Hadith mentioning the coming of Jesus AS is meant to be for Muslim Messiah. Jesus AS of Nazareth coming back makes no sense. So yeah, Jesus AS of Nazareth is dead.

good job for raping and distorting the text. let's agree with your jahmi belief, so does it mean Allah is also there when you're sleeping? Why don't you give Him a big hug before going to sleep? So Allah is also in your toilet? Do you have Islamic text which says that Allah doesn't have a physical shape?

[brahmachari99]

@AllahkaBanda

good job for raping and distorting the text. let's agree with your jahmi belief, so does it mean Allah is also there when you're sleeping? Why don't you give Him a big hug before going to sleep? So Allah is also in your toilet? Do you have Islamic text which says that Allah doesn't have a physical shape?

Are you denying Allah's omnipresence? Is your hatred for Ahmadiyyat so severe that you are willing to cast aspersions at Allah and go against your own beliefs?

[AllahkaBanda]

Re: IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?

^stop running away from my questions! Where did you get the idea that Allah is omnipresence in His Essence? It is belief of kufr to say that Allah is inside of His creation (in His Essence).

The people of Sunnah don't hesitate to speak truth and we don't tolerate rape and distortion of Islamic Nasus (text), whether kufaar or heretics. Why would I love or even respect/like anyone who distorts the teachings of Islam to serve their agenda and spread fitnah? We people of Sunnah are not apologetic or defensive that we have to resort to such faculty (caring about your feelings or trying to be goody goody) when responding to you kufaar.

[brahmachari99]

@AllahkaBanda

^stop running away from my questions! Where did you get the idea that Allah is omnipresence in His Essence? It is belief of kufr to say that Allah is inside of His creation (in His Essence).

The people of Sunnah don't hesitate to speak truth and we don't tolerate rape and distortion of Islamic Nasus (text), whether kufaar or heretics. Why would I love or even respect/like anyone who distorts the teachings of Islam to serve their agenda and spread fitnah? We people of Sunnah are not apologetic or defensive that we have to resort to such faculty (caring about your feelings or trying to be goody goody) when responding to you kufaar.

The verses quoted above are enough proof for me. Your demand to see Allah in a physical form is absurd.

[aasimtom]

Re: IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?

Some wise words from a book I read.

Where is Allah swt; Well, look at the sun, the moon, the whole of nature and what's in it, if you can see the CREATED, you can see the CREATOR.

[psyah]

@라시드

A teacher who doesn't teach? An alcoholic who doesn't drink? An insane sane man? LOL Yeah right...

I'm acting like a rational human being. My religion called Islam is a rational religion for human beings who are capable of logical thinking. It's a straight forward religion. Which doesn't give people messages in riddles that they have to figure out.

I don't run around and call people kafir because they have a different interpretation or POV. I don't call them non- muslim. I don't call Ahmadis Kafir.

Remember:

Peace 라시드

First of all I would like to congradulate brother Iconoclast in his replies to you. He has been giving you concise and accurate answers.

A teacher who does not teach ... yes that is possible ... when teachers go on teachers training they are learning like students, in that instance they are not teaching.

An alcoholic who does not drink ... yes that is possible ... when an alcoholic is attending his AA sessions or when he sleeps or when his money runs out he is not drinking.

An insane sane man ... yes even this is possible ... insanity is curable or at least show temporary lapses of normality and then they can flip back to insanity.

But this is not the answer to your question about how a prophet can be a prophet and still not be undertaking prophetic duties.

This is simple because 'prophet' carries with it two distinctions these are:

1) The Title
2) The Role

The role of prophethood is complete and sealed off. The title of prophetship exists in all of the prophets of Allah (SWT). If any of them return they will still be given the respect and rank of prophets. In this respect not only Isa (AS) but Adam (AS), Nuh (AS), all the way to Muhammad (SAW) are all prophets. No one says they were prophets.

The way to think of it in your world of analogies is like a retirement. A retired doctor or General are still called Dr saab or General saab. I hope this clarifies our position and brings us closer in understanding.

[BlindHope]

@AllahkaBanda

good job for raping and distorting the text. let's agree with your jahmi belief, so does it mean Allah is also there when you're sleeping? Why don't you give Him a big hug before going to sleep? So Allah is also in your toilet? Do you have Islamic text which says that Allah doesn't have a physical shape?

Mujey dekh talib-e-muntazir, Mujey dehk shakal-e-majaz main
*jo khaloos-e-dil ki ramak bi hai, teray edha-e-neyaaz main *

*Teray dil main Mera zahoor hai, tera saar hi kudh sareh tur hai *
*teri ankh main Mera noor hai, Mujey kon kehta hai dur hai *

Mujey dehkta jo nahi hai tun, yeh teri nazar ka kasoor hai
Mujey dekh talib-e-muntazir, Mujey dehk shakal-e-majaz main

Mujey dehkh ijaz-e-fakeer main, Mujey dekh sokahat-e-shah main
*Na dehkae dhon tu yeh fikar kar, kahain farak ho na negah main *

*Mujey dondh dil ki tarap main tun, Mujey dekh rooh-e-nigaar main *
*Kabhi bulbuloon ki sada main sun, kabi dekh gul key nikar main *

Meri ek shaan ghizaan main hai, Meri ek shaan bahar main
*Mujey dekh talib-e-muntazir, Mujey dekh sakal-e-majaz main *

Mera noor shakal e halal main, mera husan badar-e-kamal main
kabhi dekh tarz-e-jamal main, kabi dekh shaan-e-jalal main

Rag-e-jaan say hon main kareeb tar, tera dil hai kis kay keyal main **
**Mujey dekh talib e muntazir, mujey dekh sakal e majaz main