Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

I have not come across "catch me," but I have read "help." I was not certain that it would be shirk, I had doubts and it was because while I understand Rasool SAW will be a waseela...i was iffy about a dua that asks other than Allah for help; that was all. It is true that we ask teachers and parents etc for help. But dua is often made for things that are not so easily granted by people..and so we ask of Allah. This was the doubt behind my question; that is all.

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Salam

[quote]

Brother Ibn Sadique is one of our well seasoned and well researched GS personalities ...
[/quote]

Thank you for the introduction
I can see he is well seasoned, and well researched but importantly it is an area of expertise that is not to be respected. Respecting the wahabi najdi dawa is something I am free of, in its entirety. You as a man of the middle path, as you may call it, may not be free of it. You will have your reasons, I have mine and I feel comfortable with my position

If you think I may be party to spreading this Bidah (najdi, wahabi dawa) like to the extent that you may be (a bit laid back on it) then that is incorrect assumptions. I actually do oppose it

[quote]

These statements of yours are excessive and out of place ...

[/quote]

Those statements are correct and I back them

1.The propaganda you* have been fed and *are feeding to others
2. Their motivation, *including your motivation, is given strength by Shaitan*.

You are welcome to further explore these points with me, and In Sha Allah I can show you these points are both concise and correct.

evidence:
[QUOTE]
It is mostly the Shia and the extreme Sufis who attribute Divine like qualities to them
[QUOTE]

The context here is virtues, not everyday qualities but certainly not divine either. I can sum up the sentence for you, I will do this since you missed it first time round. In one word it is Mushriks

If you look back at over projects that you have been both involved in I can confidently say a Najdi type message emanated from the conversations as representative of Ahlus Sunnah. This is also an aspect of propagation, a very well used one. Pick on a Qadiani or Shia and spread Najdism! I am not saying you have been consciously involved but He is not but a propagator of the dark dawa. My view is intolerant of it, and yours perhaps does not see it or is a bit tolerant of it

[quote]

On one side he accepts the Barelwiyya as Ahl-us-Sunnah, but all he wants is for you to accept that there are more acceptable variations also within Ahl-us-Sunnah. If you don't believe him then ask your own ulema and they will be clear about this ...

[/quote]

I do accept other acceptable variations, and I have put names next to people who are Ahlus Sunnah but not Barelvis (to show which beliefs are Ahlus Sunnah). A point which fell on deaf ears

[quote]

Also, please apologise to the brother - you are accusing him of what he is not ... How can you say his motivation is from Shaitan when he says you are in Ahl-us-Sunnah? How fair is that?
[/quote]

Nope, I will not apologize because what i wrote was correct (to what i wanted to convey) and any softening/softness towards me does not change that fact.

  1. in his tafsir to Surat Fatir Ayah 6, *Imam as-Sawi warned from the wahhabis calling them: "Hizbush-Shaytan" who think they are following the truth but they are liars whom were controled by the devil, we ask Allah to bring an end to them" * Are you asking me to be fair and remove this view, or make it not be heard, apologize for it? I am not accusing you of being a wahabi but there is an aspect that i have seen before that i saw during my own research of repression of anti najdi views.

My views are fair, well thought and correct In Sha Allah

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Brother my point was bad manners is neither from the Sunnah, nor from tassuwwuf ... And my other point was I don't think you know enough about Wahabis to be calling brother Ibn Sadique a Wahabi.

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Your point is rejected whilst there is a fight to be fought, and allegations of shirk are abound. it may be ok for you, middle path and all that which exists in the shadow form

About not knowing about wahabis, from the above reply (my own) it seems i know more then you. Although i do admit my knowledge may not include things you know.
Personally i am confident enough to call Wahabis as Ahul Bidah. that's almost a first online among common folk. Point being that my views are open for you to contest, refute and correct. Stand up for what you want to

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Barailvis are muslims…baaki saray kaafir…:clap:

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

saying a man who fell ill and requested for the help of Data Ganj Baksh Rehmatullah Alaih has real faith on him (Data) and not Allah
saying uncommon virtues are divine like

Read it, it says shirk (Mushrik) and a bit of Taqiyyah, That's wahabi enough for me. You are just trying to pull wool over my eyes right by claiming i do not know what wahabi is!. what planet are you trying to send me to! Absolutely trying to find that batil middle path between Ahul Bidah and Ahlus Sunnah! Best of both worlds- yes in the dunya. a great place for self admiration and comfort

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

This speech of yours is the effect of those 400 warrants you require, from Muslims - AHLUS SUNNAH WAL JAMAAH, before you take an imam bad enough :clap:

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Are wahabis wajibutl qatal brother vroom?

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

And you don't know about me either ... It is not from the Ahl-us-Sunnah to be rude. I know you have the knowledge to avoid the below points ...

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr: The Prophet said, "Whoever has the following four (characteristics) will be a pure hypocrite and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up.

  1. Whenever he is entrusted, he betrays.
  2. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie.
  3. Whenever he makes a covenant, he proves treacherous. *4. Whenever he quarrels, he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner." *
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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

great, now the mullahs wanna tell me what I should pray for too.

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Respected brother pysah – :salam: - First of I would like to thank you for coming to my defence with kind words. You got it right that I never take myself to be a Wahabi, all the scholars that I have taken knowledge from are from the school of Deoband – I respect them a lot – But I dislike sticking a label on myself – A Muslim who is form Ahlul Sunnah sufficed for me.

I have already forgiven brother vroom, he couldn’t help saying what he said and gave his reason for it.

Quoting him again showing his state of thinking – I wonder from where he gets this inspiration?

Now he has turned his guns on to you :frowning:

Some where his got it right – just about with two words

“Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses over mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness over yourselves ..” Quran 2:143

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

After a bit of sideshow - Now back to the thread.

Respected Brother psyah I have seen the word Adrikni translated as ‘rescue me’ in Shia literature along with Hz. Ali (ra) and the twelfth Shia Imam.

Now coming to Concept of Tawassul – It is part of Islam, no one can deny it.

1) We can and must do Tawassul through the beautiful Names and exalted Attributes

2) Tawassul through the one’s own good deeds.

Saying "O Allah I ask you by my love for your Prophet …..”; Because loving the Messenger of Allah is a good deed.

3) Tawassul by the supplication of a righteous living person, by asking them to make dua for you.

I mean Tawassul or waseela is the means of approaching Allah Almighty.

And it is Allah Almighty alone that delivers the results – only if He Wills it.

It is only Allah Almighty who can forgive sins; relieve distress; restore good health; increase wealth; increase rizq; bless one with offspring; etc. etc.

Now about the poem about adrikni – I tried to read it - My Urdu is very weak and I can’t read it. But what I made of it is that it is addressed to the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) with no mention of Allah Almighty at all.

Dua is always addressed to Allah Almighty with means of waseela mentioned above. Dua cannot be addressed to anyone but Allah Almihgty.

And your Lord says: Call upon Me, I will answer you; surely those who are too proud for My service shall soon enter hell abased. 40:60]

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Ok, your telling i dont know you too. I am best placed to know whether i know you or not! its my opinion you are questioning after all. I think I know you, at least to the point where i can make statements that i can stand by!

You said I do not know Ibn Saddique well enough to call him a wahabi. well i mentioned two points:
*saying a man who fell ill and requested for the help of Data Ganj Baksh Rehmatullah Alaih has real faith on him (Data) and not Allah *
*saying uncommon virtues are divine like *
Tell me that's not wahabi? or admit that I may have a point

You have been having difficulty seeing things in prospective!

[quote]

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr: The Prophet said, "Whoever has the following four (characteristics) will be a pure hypocrite and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up.

  1. Whenever he is entrusted, he betrays.
  2. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie.

  3. Whenever he makes a covenant, he proves treacherous.
    *4. Whenever he quarrels, he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner."
    *
    [/quote]

  4. I am entrusted by Ahlus Sunnah to stick up for them against propaganda
    see my last comment on page1

  5. Come with the lies I have given, i call you out to do this.
    here i make a counter claim that you have given 1 lie above to say ibn saddique is not a wahabi -says he learnt from deobandis. after that it shouldn't be much of a challenge for you!

  6. My covenant is intact. I have not shown treachery
    I defend the largest group of Muslims
    I defend the Sahaba, I defend The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam, I defend the Deen of Allah from corruption

  7. I have replied in a manner which tries to give back like for like
    I, my people and my religion have been insulted using good grammar perhaps and I replied with poor use of grammar. Nothing wrong with my conduct there. I guess because I replied back to you not all apologetic now I am the biggest munafiq there could be! Psyah, I am happy with my own position, and do not see you above me in any way! is that ok with you!

I am happy that I do not match any of those criteria, besides we live and die by what we believe and are held accountable for it. I am content to be judged for having opposed Ibn Saddique and knocked your request back for an apology. Otherwise you have no known reason to be giving me advice that i have to take. i am independently well positioned to have my own positions. I have given you the option of looking at the statements you found questionable. On him Feeding propaganda and getting help from shaitan to do that, its still there and i stand by it. Even Imam Sawi's statements says same, and if you cant see the propagation of the najdi dawa from him then you are suffering from blindness yourself.

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Wow

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Peace vroom

All I can say is that you are single-handedly doing a bigger injustice to Barelviyya (Ahl-us-Sunnah) than any Wahabi or non-Barelvi is doing here ... The Barelvis who are my friends are the sweetest people and they compete with me in praising one another - not about making mighty claims ... Ask anyone here if they think your contribution has been making them consider joining you ...

After seeing you I can say for sure that even the Barelviyya are not a single group of people but have many kinds and forms ... SubhanAllah !!!

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Salam

I think your imagination is working overtime. Lots of incorrect assumptions there, as has been the case through out these responses. I wont even bother this time to write a reply with my deep thoughts, as its all flying over you any way. I say flying over you but that it is if is actually being missed by you unintentionally. If the case is that you are not missing these points I have mentioned then you will be closer to allegation you implied upon me in your earlier post. Not even closer but a personified Ahlal Harm (Munafiq). Whatever the case I am not bothered.

My aim is not give dawa but just to defend. Dawa would be on the table if the climate was not so anti Sunni, but with people like you propping up the propaganda then that's a far off objective

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

I apologise brother vroom

I'll be more civil in future inshaAllah ... Please remember me in your du'as ...

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Look the point is you were wrong to pull me up

If you look earlier in the thread a point was made about having real faith in someone other then Allah The Giver in certain circumstances (of need), well use your well researched knowledge of Quran and Sunnah and recall similar instances. Once you have done that we can see exactly to whom that implied fatwa of shirk refers to!

Do you get me? The issues I have found an interest in are ALL more serious then just public school manners.

I am not just crazed, there is thought behind the madness

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

:konfused: … What does any of this have to do with OP’s question?

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Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Man on a mission to rid the world of wahabism.