Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

vroom · April 11, 2014, 7:01am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Well its not Shirk, but also it is not the recommended way to make Dua

To involve RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam in your Dua:

The Hadith states: It was narrated from 'Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said: “Pray to Allah to heal me.” He said: “If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you.” He said: “Supplicate.” So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak’ah, and to say this supplication: “Allahumma lnni as’aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya (O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards**You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy*.* O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. **O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)”

This dua is NOT to be used for Materialistic needs, and it is BETTER if you are patient (leave for afterlife)

Tawassul(Waseela)

Captain_Obvious · April 11, 2014, 1:23pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

This would be a question that you should ask an aalim but sahaba would recite duas and zikr for protection and would make salat when even worldly needs arose.

Ibn_Sadique · April 11, 2014, 4:17pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) guided the believers on how to best supplicate their Lord Allah Almighty.

And the Blessed Quran has beautiful ayahs of Duas the Believers can recite as duas, beseeching Allah Almighty for matters concerning better Guidance, rizq, health, wealth, children and all the needs in the sphere of life.

Allah Almighty commands the Believers to call upon Him for all their needs.

Say: "Call upon Allah or call upon 'The Rahman' (The Most Gracious): by whatever Name ye call upon Him (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Surah Israa verse 110

Ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet (saws), said, "If any servant of Allah afflicted with distress or grief makes this supplication, his supplication will be accepted: 'O Allah, I am Your servant, son of Your servant, son of your maidservant. My forehead is in Your hand. Your command concerning me prevails, and Your decision concerning me is just. I call upon You by every one of the beautiful names by which You have described Yourself, or which You have revealed in Your book, or have taught anyone of Your creatures, or which You have chosen to keep in the knowledge of the unseen with You, to make the Qur'an the delight of my heart, the light of my breast, and remover of my griefs, sorrows, and afflictions'." Narrated by Ahmad and Ibn Hibban.

Salman al Farsi reported that the Prophet (saws), said, "Your Lord, the Blessed and the Exalted One, is Modest and Generous, and He loathes to turn away His servant empty-handed when he raises his hands to Him in supplication." Narrated by Ahmad and Ibn Hibban.

Allah Almighty is accessible and reachable at all times and He hears and responds (no appointments needed).

But people still feel that they have to approach Allah Almighty indirectly denying Allah Almighty’s facility of direct availability.

I have heard this some time back that a man from Lahore went to perform Hajj. While still in Makkah a few days before Hajj was to commence he fell ill.
He immediately rang his family back in Lahore and pleaded with them to go to the Data Durbar to pray for him to get well quickly so that he could perform Hajj.

And he was a few hundred meters from House Allah Almighty!!! :( - Man always turns to where his real Faith lies in.

redvelvet · April 11, 2014, 5:39pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Heelati is like the Urdu word heelay which means strategies. So the translation that I've come across is : All my strategies have ended, the Prophet SAWS is my waseela, and adrikni means "help me".....it's not a durood/dua I am in the habit of reciting...I've been iffy about whether it's allowed

psyah · April 11, 2014, 6:34pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

That translation is definitely not correct ...

qallat ... Is an obscure verb I presume that is shadda on laam ... Heelati could mean 'my strategies' ... Anta wasselati means "you are my intercessor"

adrakni is confusing me ... I need to see the whole sentence in Arabic to work it out. But by the gist of it ... If it means "help me" then it resembles an instruction ...

vroom · April 11, 2014, 8:10pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

adrikni Ya RasoolAllah is 'Help me O RasoolAllah' SallAllahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam its a request

Ibn_Sadique · April 12, 2014, 4:33am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Assalama alaykum redvelvet - Got this from the Net

*Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Ghatayein Gham Ki Chaayein Dil Pareshan Ya RasoolAllah
Tumhi Ab Kuch Karo Maah-E-Risalat Ya RasoolAllah

Ghatayein Gham Ki Chaayein Dil Pareshan Ya RasoolAllah
Tumhi Ho Mere Dard-O-Dukh Ka Darmaan Ya RasoolAllah

Safeenay Ke Parakhchay Urr Chukkay Hain Zor-E-Tufaan Se
Sambhalo Mein Bhi Dooba Aey Meri Jaan Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Gunahoon Ki Nahi Jaatei Hai Aadat Ya RasoolAllah
Tumhi Ab Kuch Karo Maah-E-Risalat Ya RasoolAllah

Mein Bachna Chahta Hoon Haaye Phir Bhi Bach Nahi Paata
Gunahoon Ki Parri Hai Aisi A’adat Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Humein Haryalay Gumbad Ke Tallay Qadmon Mein Maut Aaye
Salamat Lekay Jaayein Deen-O-Imaan Ya RasoolAllah

Mujhe Marna Hai Aaqa Gumbad-E-Khizra Ke Saaye Mein
Watan Mein Margaya Tou Kia Karoonga Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Bohot Kamzoor Hoon Qabil Nahi Hargiz Azaboon Ke
Khudara Saath Letay Jaana Jannat Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Yahan Jaisay Hamari A’eb Pooshi Aap Kartay Hain
Wahan Bhi Aap Rakhlejiyega Izzat Ya RasoolAllah

Mera Ye Khuwaab Hojaye Shaha Sharminda-E-Ta’beer
Madinay Mein Piyoon Jaam-E-Shahadat Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Madina Meetha Meetha Hai Madina Pyara Pyara Hai
Madinay Se Mujhe Beyhud Hai Ulfat Ya RasoolAllah

Meri Har Dharkan-E-Dil Se Madinay Ki Sada Niklay
Rahay Zikr-E-Madina Lub Pe Har Dam Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Shaha Attar Per Har Aan Rehmat Ki Nazar Rakhna
Karay Din Raat Buss Sunnat Ki Khidmat Ya RasoolAllah

Shaha Attar Ko Dou Gaz Madinay Mein Zameen Dejiye
Waheen Ho Dafn Tera Ye Sana Khuwaan Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah
Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah*

You are right that in the above Allah Almighty is not mentioned

It is common among Shia Folk to call upon Hz. Ali (ra) for help "Ya Ali Madad"

It is common among Brelewis folk to generally to call upon the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) for help.

redvelvet · April 12, 2014, 4:46am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

^Thank you for posting the reference.

system · April 12, 2014, 6:41am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique has narrated that Rasulullah (SAW) said : Shirk in my Ummah is much more hidden than the pace of an ant crawling upon a black stone.

psyah · April 12, 2014, 7:01am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Ok I have the proper translation of adrikni ... It means catch me or grasp me ( form iv, imperative tense)

psyah · April 12, 2014, 7:02am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

reference please … This is the Hadith about riya.

vroom · April 12, 2014, 7:04am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Ibn_Sadique:

Assalama alaykum redvelvet - Got this from the Net

*Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Ghatayein Gham Ki Chaayein Dil Pareshan Ya RasoolAllah Tumhi Ab Kuch Karo Maah-E-Risalat Ya RasoolAllah

Ghatayein Gham Ki Chaayein Dil Pareshan Ya RasoolAllah Tumhi Ho Mere Dard-O-Dukh Ka Darmaan Ya RasoolAllah

Safeenay Ke Parakhchay Urr Chukkay Hain Zor-E-Tufaan Se Sambhalo Mein Bhi Dooba Aey Meri Jaan Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Gunahoon Ki Nahi Jaatei Hai Aadat Ya RasoolAllah Tumhi Ab Kuch Karo Maah-E-Risalat Ya RasoolAllah

Mein Bachna Chahta Hoon Haaye Phir Bhi Bach Nahi Paata Gunahoon Ki Parri Hai Aisi A’adat Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Humein Haryalay Gumbad Ke Tallay Qadmon Mein Maut Aaye Salamat Lekay Jaayein Deen-O-Imaan Ya RasoolAllah

Mujhe Marna Hai Aaqa Gumbad-E-Khizra Ke Saaye Mein Watan Mein Margaya Tou Kia Karoonga Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Bohot Kamzoor Hoon Qabil Nahi Hargiz Azaboon Ke Khudara Saath Letay Jaana Jannat Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Yahan Jaisay Hamari A’eb Pooshi Aap Kartay Hain Wahan Bhi Aap Rakhlejiyega Izzat Ya RasoolAllah

Mera Ye Khuwaab Hojaye Shaha Sharminda-E-Ta’beer Madinay Mein Piyoon Jaam-E-Shahadat Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Madina Meetha Meetha Hai Madina Pyara Pyara Hai Madinay Se Mujhe Beyhud Hai Ulfat Ya RasoolAllah

Meri Har Dharkan-E-Dil Se Madinay Ki Sada Niklay Rahay Zikr-E-Madina Lub Pe Har Dam Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah

Shaha Attar Per Har Aan Rehmat Ki Nazar Rakhna Karay Din Raat Buss Sunnat Ki Khidmat Ya RasoolAllah

Shaha Attar Ko Dou Gaz Madinay Mein Zameen Dejiye Waheen Ho Dafn Tera Ye Sana Khuwaan Ya RasoolAllah

Qallat-Hee-Lati Anta Waseelati Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah Adrikni Ya RasoolAllah***

You are right that in the above Allah Almighty is not mentioned

It is common among Shia Folk to call upon Hz. Ali (ra) for help "Ya Ali Madad"

It is common among Brelewis folk to generally to call upon the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) for help.**

in terms of Shirk All three examples would not be shirk for a Sunni Muslim and all three are permissible, and contained in the Sunnah meaning acted upon

btw Sunnis (barelvis) are more likely to involve Awliya then The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam

The tawheed you are pushing has one very big problem, it is more tawheedi then what Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala gave us, meaning its batil, and an innovation (Bidah)

system · April 12, 2014, 7:38am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Okay full hadees and never was that mentioned anywhere its specifically about riya:

Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique has narrated that Rasulullah (SAW) said : “Shirk in my Ummah is much more hidden than the pace of an ant crawling upon a black stone.”

Upon hearing this, Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique asked : “How can one be saved from it?”

Rasulullah said : “ Should I not show you such a supplication (dua) that if you recite it, you will be free from minor and major shirk.”

Hazrat Abu Bakr requested him to do so. Rasulullah (SAW) instructed him to say :

*“Allahumma innee a’oozu bika min an ushrika bika shay-a`w wa-ana a’alam wa-astaghfiruka limaa laa a’alam.”
*
“O Allah, I seek protection in You from that I ascribe partners to You knowingly and I seek forgiveness from You for those things which I do not know.”

reference: [Found in Adab al-Mufrad, 716 and Musnad Abi Ya'la - classed as saheeh by Al-Albani in 'Saheeh Adab al-Mufrad], 551 (see also Jaami' as-Sagheer, 4934]

Adab al mufrad is Imam bukhari's work and saheeh adab al mufrad is by Shaikh al albaani, in which he compiled and assembled saheeh ahadees from adab al mufrad( his own ijtihaad involved). I could care less to plug anyone's work , but if somebody doesn't want to take his work as authentic, entirely their own choice.

Ibn_Sadique · April 12, 2014, 8:16am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

^ Jazakallah Khayrunn

There is another reference

Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “O people, save yourselves from shirk, for it is more inconspicuous than the creeping of the ant. Someone whom Allah willed (to speak) asked: ‘How do we save ourselves from it while it is more inconspicuous than the creeping of the ant O Messenger of Allah?’ He said: ‘Say: O Allah we seek refuge in You from associating anything with You knowingly, and we seek Your forgiveness for what we do unknowingly.’” [Musnad Ahmad, 4/403 and others - classed as saheeh

Brother vroom Please don’t equate Bralevis as Sunnah wal Jamaa - It just a very small school of thought within Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaa confined within South Asians

In the Blessed verse of Sura Al Fatiha the Believers pledge:

You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).

Allah Almighty responds and commands the Believers to call upon Him for all their needs.

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led a right. [2:186]

Say: "Call upon Allah or call upon ‘The Rahman’ (The Most Gracious): by whatever Name ye call upon Him (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Surah Israa verse 110

Why do the Believers need any one other than Allah Almighty to turn to for all their needs.

Allah Almighty the most Merciful responds to all even those who do not believe in Him and those who associate partners with Him openly and knowingly and those who do so subtly without knowing it.

psyah · April 12, 2014, 8:26am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Peace rainydays

my points

1) This Hadith as it stands demonstrate that shirk will not be open and clear in the ummah, which means Alhumdulillah we as an ummah are protected from it on the whole, but the forms that will manifest are subtle and undetectable.

2) The concern of the shirk by Sayyiduna Abu Bakr AsSiddique (RA) was most probably out of a sense of warra and perfection.

3) if you look at other similar ahadith described in this way you will see that it is referring to riya ... And riya is in my opinion one of the very things that people of Ihsan and tassuwwuf try to cleanse their personality from ... So it is wrong to even begin to apply this to people who are doing du'a with waseela ... That would be a misdirection.

Shirk has defined boundaries and quite clearly shirk has two aspects ... Intent and form ... Riya is indeed the most hidden form of shirk ... Because the form is outwardly worship in many cases but the intent could be to show off in front of others. Most likely the ones who wish to show their own perspective is true will do two things ... They will cherry pick the Hadith that are better suited to their opinion while hide the other related Hadith that put more context into the equation and secondly they will construe an argument from it to support their position and not move from their position. Does it not annoy you that you are given a partial picture by selected Hadith on a given matter ... Useful rule of thumb ... When looking at a matter look at all available ahadith arguments from both sides and then form ones opinions.

psyah · April 12, 2014, 8:33am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

I'm still not satisfied by the translation of ... Qallat hee Lati anta waseelati adrikni ya RasoolAllah ...(SAW) ...

why are people saying what they can't even understand or translate?

psyah · April 12, 2014, 8:58am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Ok I've seen the Arabic now ...

The proper translation is ...

My strategies have diminished, you are my intercessor, catch me O Prophet (SAW) of Allah (SWT)...

I don't understand how this is shirk ... It is indeed the role of RasoolAllah (SAW) to be the waseelah ... So the phrase catch me ... Is quite symbolic and poetic ... It is possible to take the "it is only You we ask for help" to be taken too strictly ... Of course we all ask each other for help all the time, our teachers and parents and servants and colleagues ... The distinction is we don't ask anyone what is the right of Allah (SWT) to be asked ... So we don't ask RasoolAllah (SAW) to forgive our sins for example ... So I can't understand what is wrong in asking RasoolAllah (SAW) to include us in the group he gives waseelah to?

vroom · April 12, 2014, 10:52am

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Salam

This subject further proves Barelvis are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. I think its quiet clear

Also its quiet clear from the other thread, which is still to be finalised.

The propaganda you have been fed and are feeding to others is a lie. I have come back to Ahlus Sunnah only because Barelvis are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. So now i can say ‘we’ are upon correct beliefs, that is how i rate the ‘barelvi’. This conclusion is formed from the total sum of all my knowledge on Quran Sunnah and History.

Wahabis on the other hand are Ahul Bidah. Their motivation, including your motivation, is given strength by Shaitan. For you have split from the community (the Jamaah). There is no precedent to the najdi dawa which proves it is a bidah and it is not Ahlus Sunnah.

On Shirk it is the Belief of the entire Muslim Community , excluding wahabis here, that what is shirk is Shirk with someone infront you is also shirk with shirk with someone not infront you. Meaning asking for help from someone not infront of you is the same as asking for help from someone infront of you

You can not have gods besides Allah The Only One when someone is infront of you.** what is not shirk when your helper is Alive can not be Shirk when he has passed away**

Otherwise it would be to condone gods besides Allah The Only One, as long as they are living! Astagfirullah

I do not want to completely wreck RV’s thread (although i am a thread wrecker, and enjoy it) but this is a subject that i do plan on exploring a lot on this forum in the very near future.

psyah · April 12, 2014, 12:40pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

vroom:

Salam

This subject further proves Barelvis are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. I think its quiet clear

Also its quiet clear from the other thread, which is still to be finalised.

The propaganda you have been fed and are feeding to others is a lie. I have come back to Ahlus Sunnah only because Barelvis are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. So now i can say 'we' are upon correct beliefs, that is how i rate the 'barelvi'. This conclusion is formed from the total sum of all my knowledge on Quran Sunnah and History.

Wahabis on the other hand are Ahul Bidah. Their motivation, including your motivation, is given strength by Shaitan. For you have split from the community (the Jamaah). There is no precedent to the najdi dawa which proves it is a bidah and it is not Ahlus Sunnah.

On Shirk it is the Belief of the entire Muslim Community , excluding wahabis here, that what is shirk is Shirk with someone infront you is also shirk with shirk with someone not infront you. Meaning asking for help from someone not infront of you is the same as asking for help from someone infront of you

You can not have gods besides Allah The Only One when someone is infront of you.** what is not shirk when your helper is Alive can not be Shirk when he has passed away**

Otherwise it would be to condone gods besides Allah The Only One, as long as they are living! Astagfirullah

I do not want to completely wreck RV's thread (although i am a thread wrecker, and enjoy it) but this is a subject that i do plan on exploring a lot on this forum in the very near future.

Peace brother vroom

Brother Ibn Sadique is one of our well seasoned and well researched GS personalities ... These statements of yours are excessive and out of place ...

On one side he accepts the Barelwiyya as Ahl-us-Sunnah, but all he wants is for you to accept that there are more acceptable variations also within Ahl-us-Sunnah. If you don't believe him then ask your own ulema and they will be clear about this ... Also, please apologise to the brother - you are accusing him of what he is not ... How can you say his motivation is from Shaitan when he says you are in Ahl-us-Sunnah? How fair is that?

system · April 12, 2014, 2:24pm

Re: Is it wrong? Is it selfish?

Jazak Allah ibn e siddique for another reference.

Walaikum Peace psyah
I think hadees is pretty clear to be further argued on.
Came here to return your salam.