Is it REALLY that hard???

[_Iraj]

Isn't make-up haram?

No bodyshop products are halaal

[_Iraj]

Exactly!!! Who are we to say that a person who drinks alcohol, eats haraam, sleeps around, back bites etc etc etc is doomed to hell?? Who are we to say he is bad?? How do we know that he is not Jannati??? How do we know that Allah is not pleased with him??? We need to focus on ourselves and stop looking at others!! We all do this.....no point denying it - if we didn't, GS would be made redundant!!

I reckon this is the very first basic step.Controlling ourselves ...

if only we learn to do right at the right time the environment wud be much better. this is what islam teaches and this is how thw Holy Prophet (saw) spread the knowledge of islam thru his actions.

in simple words charity begins at home

[Ma_Mooli]

If in Islam, the notion of 'its between them and Allah' really existed, then justice and punishment for wrong actions (e.g adultery) would not have been prescribed. Islam came prescribed for communities, not just for individuals.

There is also a root principle that exists in Islam of 'Amr bil ma'roof' (the promoting of good) and ' Nahi anil munkar' (the forbidding of wrong), that is duty of every believer, and i think that is where the 'preachy' culture stems from.

So with that in mind, how do you reconcile the two notions together in this day and age where being preachy is considered judgemental and rude, but then everything else is all fair and game? where and how does this principle actually fit in?

[CM]

Re: Is it REALLY that hard???

No the preachy culture comes from a simple of self-righteous superiority. It is written in the Quran that the one who guides us to the right path is Allah. Nobody else. Nobody else has that authority.

There is a friend I know from the UK. Someone Medic introduced me to. The only hardline religious guy I actually respect. He told me once about some religious issue I said I am not concerned with and he left it at that. A Muslims job in the case of "Amr bil ma'roof" is to simple state what is wrong and what is right. The final decisions is an individual one.

It is not to force people to conform to your views.

[CE]

No bodyshop products are halaal

body shop is against animal testing not against using animal products

[mclovin123]

Yes it is all haraam.

The biggest problem is that we love to interfere in others lives.

We interfere. then. We judge.

If someone else is doing something wrong, he/she knows it, why do we have to voice our opinion to that person or discuss that persons actions. That person chose to do it and we have no right to interfere.

We do not have any right to interfere, nor do we have the right to judge.

God will judge us no one else.

We should focus on ourselves first - none of us are perfect nor can we ever be so we should focus our lifetime on improving oneself.

[Spiral]

No the preachy culture comes from a simple of self-righteous superiority. It is written in the Quran that the one who guides us to the right path is Allah. Nobody else. Nobody else has that authority.

There is a friend I know from the UK. Someone Medic introduced me to. The only hardline religious guy I actually respect. He told me once about some religious issue I said I am not concerned with and he left it at that. A Muslims job in the case of "Amr bil ma'roof" is to simple state what is wrong and what is right. The final decisions is an individual one.

It is not to force people to conform to your views.

But isn't it our duty as Muslims to clear wrong views of people about Islam. I feel that way. If I know something that someone else might not be aware of, I would definitely let them know that this is what Islam wants. Likewise, I always ask other people who have greater knowledge than me about Islam about somethings I don't understand.

Forcing your believes on someone is one thing but knowing that someone is doing wrong and they might not be aware that their actions are not acceptable and not telling them even once is pretty sinful in my opinion.

I know, growing up and still at this stage where I am married, I still seek knowledge. From MIL and my mom, Imam (kutbas I listen to) etc, I try to gain knowledge and try to correct myself.

What Reha has said here, I don't know how many of us agree with it, it is true. Lets talk about what she has stated. I don't see Pork anywhere in her post so lets leave that out or any other thing that she hasn't mentioned. I see people here saying oh I don't see anything wrong with dating.. SERIOUSLY??? In the end those people will have to answer to Allah and so do we but spreading wrong knowledge and setting rules according to your own comfort isn't Islam.

[Deeba1234]

^Yes, but then hijab is seen as obligatory and hardly any of us wear that either so what right do we have to lecture others and say things like 'is it so hard to..?' when others can thrown that back in our faces for the (many) unIslamic things we do ourselves?

We can give input and guide but then it's down to them. Wish everyone would concentrate on themselves rather than keep on pointing out faults in others, can't just pick and choose what is fine for us then go on about dating is haram or drinking is haram prob cos it's not acceptable in our culture *(whilst stuff like going without hijab and mixing with non-mehrams such as cousins is culturally not seen as such a big deal even tho it's just as bad, isn't the BIL described as *'death' yet most desis couldn't care less about married women mixing with them).

[Deeba1234]

Exactly!!! Who are we to say that a person who drinks alcohol, eats haraam, sleeps around, back bites etc etc etc is doomed to hell?? Who are we to say he is bad?? How do we know that he is not Jannati??? How do we know that Allah is not pleased with him??? We need to focus on ourselves and stop looking at others!! We all do this.....no point denying it - if we didn't, GS would be made redundant!!

Totally agree..

[CM]

Re: Is it REALLY that hard???

You don't answer to Allah for the actions of others. But you do answer to Allah when your own actions cause injury and disgust.

What Muslims need to stop being is being such judgemental busy bodies. This is of course referring to Pakistanis. One conservative friend of mine asked me about Islam in Darfur and he asked me if they practiced Islam properly.

My response is why the **** does he care. He spends most of his time lecturing others on Islam. He should be worried if Allah finds his constant berating and lecturing offensive.

He never asked me about Darfur again. And that is the problem with Pakistanis in general. Specifically the super religious zealots. They think its their mission to fix others when only Allah has that right.

Every human is a sinner. We do not by default enter heaven. And more importantly just because you pray 5 times a day, read the Quran and know all the Hadis does not mean you will enter heaven.

A hadis that I always keep in mind when it comes to Islam and its true nature is the story of the killer that traveled between two cities. As the story is narrated a heinous murderer killed a bunch of people but finally truly repented. He asked for forgiveness and asked what he should do. It is stated he was told to travel from the town he was in to some other town far away.

He died on the way there and when it came to give judgment on him, the question was asked how do we judge him. The answer from Allah was see which city he was closer to. Was he closer to the city where he sought redemption or to the city where he committed all those vile acts.

As for dating. They don't see anything wrong with even after they know it is against their faith. So why is everybody acting like a ****ing Indian soap opera aunt and getting involved in their business.

[Monk]

I am amazed to see how ppl love islam and scared to leave it.

Get this

Islam is by ideology not by social values or blood.

Not practising is one thing but refusing ideology make you a non believer.

How hard is that to understand?

Why ppl don't have courage to say "I don't believe in so and so"

Is that because of that scary idea of burring in hell?.... maybe they will not burn in hell... maybe saying no will help their pie size brain grow.. and eventually they will come back to basics.

Honeys(girls and guys) islam is little more deeper then your parents understanding of it...Probably its time you take your doubts about it seriously and do some thing about it??

[Ma_Mooli]

No the preachy culture comes from a simple of self-righteous superiority. It is written in the Quran that the one who guides us to the right path is Allah. Nobody else. Nobody else has that authority.

That is possible that it stems from a superiority complex inorder to make someone look/feel bad, which is wrong intself, but in the right context it is actually one known quality of a true believer.

"You are the best community that has been raised for mankind. You enjoin good and forbid evil and you believe in Allah." [Aal-e-Imran, 3:110].

[quote]
There is a friend I know from the UK. Someone Medic introduced me to. The only hardline religious guy I actually respect. He told me once about some religious issue I said I am not concerned with and he left it at that. A Muslims job in the case of "Amr bil ma'roof" is to simple state what is wrong and what is right.

It is not to force people to conform to your views.
[/QUOTE]

Well thats what this is about. He did his part of enjoining good, and relieved himself from his responsibility. The rest up to the individual. Noone is talking about forcing, that is taking things too far. The most you can do is impart knowledge, the least you can do is dissociate/distance yourself. But the concept is very much there in Islam, and only leaves it between them and Allah when it is the only option.

It is possible a person has their own reasoning/school of thought, which is different to yours, so you do have to be careful.

[LP]

Re: Is it REALLY that hard???

There are times when you impart knowledge and people take it in the wrong way and say you have a "holier than thou" attitude.

[Ma_Mooli]

Exactly!!! Who are we to say that a person who drinks alcohol, eats haraam, sleeps around, back bites etc etc etc is doomed to hell?? Who are we to say he is bad?? How do we know that he is not Jannati???

Not us, but Allah (swt) says repeatedly in the Quran that such a person is doomed to hell...unless he repents. I think somethings are clear as black and white and there is no point pretending otherwise.

[quote]
How do we know that Allah is not pleased with him???
We need to focus on ourselves and stop looking at others!! We all do this.....no point denying it - if we didn't, GS would be made redundant!!
[/quote]

Because he told us in the Quran?

Yes we need to focus on ourselves big time, but that doesnt exempt us from our responsiblities to other believers.

[Ma_Mooli]

There are times when you impart knowledge and people take it in the wrong way and say you have a "holier than thou" attitude.

Thats the point. If you cant impart knowledge without offending, there are other forms, one of them is following/not following the action yourself. If they get the message, that should be enough.

[McPendo]

Isn't make-up haram?

LMAOO... Oscar for comment mate!

[Decent_6Chora]

Exactly!!! Who are we to say that a person who drinks alcohol, eats haraam, sleeps around, back bites etc etc etc is doomed to hell?? Who are we to say he is bad?? How do we know that he is not Jannati??? How do we know that Allah is not pleased with him??? We need to focus on ourselves and stop looking at others!! We all do this.....no point denying it - if we didn't, GS would be made redundant!!

Will you tell someone if they are over speeding that dont over speed, you will get a ticket? or will you tell someone if they are stealing something that dont steal, you can go to jail for this ?

Here is what you (or most of the people will do). They will tell the person once and if the person does not listen, then its upto them but you WILL tell them for once ..right?

[Monk]

Exactly!!! Who are we to say that a person who drinks alcohol, eats haraam, sleeps around, back bites etc etc etc is doomed to hell?? Who are we to say he is bad?? How do we know that he is not Jannati??? How do we know that Allah is not pleased with him??? We need to focus on ourselves and stop looking at others!! We all do this.....no point denying it - if we didn't, GS would be made redundant!!

jannah jannah jannah

dozakh dozakh dozakh

that is all to it????

Some one need to set mullah's on fire.

[Reha]

@X2

islam is a religion of right and wrong, the issue i see is that people focus on a certain type of wrong more than other type of wrong.

and while we have an issue with people making something unacceptable as acceptable, we dont similarly rect when people start making things that are acceptable into unacceptable.

I agree with you. The focuses are alllllll wrong these days and seem to be on petty issues when looking at a bigger picture.

@X2

are they? I think there is a small set of rules which is clear.
there are others that are based on hearsay and opinions.
I am not cool with turning black or white into gray
but not cool with turning gray or absent into black or white

while the intentions of some may be right, their opinions and views do not become divine law and should not be treated that way.

example I use are things like is lobster or crab allowed, then u quickly would get into schools of thought…not very clear

then we have statements like stoning as punishment for adultery, but is it? where?

there are many gray areas

Adultery is wrong though, isnt it? Yet people use love to justify it or that their spouse doesnt pay attention to them so they had no choice. Its STILL haram and punishable in the eyes of Allah, isnt it?

My point is simply this much: I think people know what is right and wrong…yet choose to either ignore it or use Islam to justify it and as a result…twist the rules for NOT ONLY themselves but others as well.

@TT

Isn’t make-up haram?

TT…do you wear make up?

@X2

reverse happens too, e.g. with fasting and travel, now i hear ppl say well travel in those days was hard so u did not have to fast, now u travel in a plane or by airconditioned car so the allowing to miss roza does not apply to u.

so what amuses me is that we will find arguments to support that view, but if its the opposite and saying something does not apply then its a no.

PS: women are not allowed to travel by themselves..:nono:

LOL…I KNOW women are not allowed to travel alone.

Do you think the part about missing rozas also applie to the four wives rule?

@_Iraj

No bodyshop products are halaal

@Spiral

But isn’t it our duty as Muslims to clear wrong views of people about Islam. I feel that way. If I know something that someone else might not be aware of, I would definitely let them know that this is what Islam wants. Likewise, I always ask other people who have greater knowledge than me about Islam about somethings I don’t understand.

Forcing your believes on someone is one thing but knowing that someone is doing wrong and they might not be aware that their actions are not acceptable and not telling them even once is pretty sinful in my opinion.

I know, growing up and still at this stage where I am married, I still seek knowledge. From MIL and my mom, Imam (kutbas I listen to) etc, I try to gain knowledge and try to correct myself.

What Reha has said here, I don’t know how many of us agree with it, it is true. Lets talk about what she has stated. I don’t see Pork anywhere in her post so lets leave that out or any other thing that she hasn’t mentioned. I see people here saying oh I don’t see anything wrong with dating.. SERIOUSLY??? In the end those people will have to answer to Allah and so do we but spreading wrong knowledge and setting rules according to your own comfort isn’t Islam.

I think clearing up misconceptions for non-muslims is a duty. For instance, many non-muslims think the four wives concept in Islam is to satisfy a man’s sexual desires and as a result turns a woman into a piece of meat. NOT true. They think hijab is to suppress a woman and limit her freedom. NOT true. As a Muslim, putting your absolute BEST foot forward is important when dealing with non-muslims and that in itself clears up quite a bit. By the same token, Islam has also taught us not to develop opinions in haste which we tend to do when it comes to fellow Muslims.

However, being judgemental (not to imply you are Spiral, you’re far from it) as many desi Muslims are…is wrong. Dont you think? Imparting knowledge is one thing but labeling someone as bad is another entirely.

I really do believe people know innately when they are doing something wrong…I do…why wouldnt anyone else? It feels wrong. You feel a slight pang of guilt. But to justify that to others by saying its okay…Islam isnt that strict…is not right. My point is about mucking up our boundaries and making it so our future generations will be completely lost about right and wrong. I was thinking about my kids (when I have any, Inshallah) and I dont know what I will tell them anymore. I mean, as Muslims are we where we need to be? They will see people justifying dating, alcohol and such…and get influenced…no?

@Deeba1234

^Yes, but then hijab is seen as obligatory and hardly any of us wear that either so what right do we have to lecture others and say things like ‘is it so hard to..?’ when others can thrown that back in our faces for the (many) unIslamic things we do ourselves?

We can give input and guide but then it’s down to them. Wish everyone would concentrate on themselves rather than keep on pointing out faults in others, can’t just pick and choose what is fine for us then go on about dating is haram or drinking is haram prob cos it’s **not acceptable in our culture **(whilst stuff like going without hijab and mixing with non-mehrams such as cousins is culturally not seen as such a big deal even tho it’s just as bad, isn’t the BIL described as ‘death’ yet most desis couldn’t care less about married women mixing with them).

You’re talking about preaching and lecturing. I dont think thats what Im addressing here Deeba.

NOT wearing hijab is wrong…dating is wrong…alcohol is wrong…full stop.

Using Islam to make them okay or justifying using our religion and not admitting these things are wrong…is my point. We should be able to recognize the good and bad. Its becoming harder to do because no one thinks what they’re doing is wrong.

@Decent_6Chora

Will you tell someone if they are over speeding that dont over speed, you will get a ticket? or will you tell someone if they are stealing something that dont steal, you can go to jail for this ?

Here is what you (or most of the people will do). They will tell the person once and if the person does not listen, then its upto them but you WILL tell them for once ..right?

Yup.

[Reha]

Exactly!!! Who are we to say that a person who drinks alcohol, eats haraam, sleeps around, back bites etc etc etc is doomed to hell?? Who are we to say he is bad?? How do we know that he is not Jannati??? How do we know that Allah is not pleased with him??? We need to focus on ourselves and stop looking at others!! We all do this.....no point denying it - if we didn't, GS would be made redundant!!

Who is talking about jannat and dozakh??? Uff!